Buying native trees, shrubs, perennials

When you go to add native trees, shrubs and perennials, it is best to buy native everything that is from my area? Things that are grown from seed from my area? Or does it not matter? The local nursery has native trees, but they're shipped in from Oregon. Or buy from someplace that grows plants from within 100 miles of me? Tell me what you do and why. And yes, I might be over thinking this and I even could be accused of obsessing over this....trust me, I know. :o)

Terry

Hey Terry, I don't buy native everything but that's just me. I plant lots of non natives up in tight around my home. I do plant 100% natives in the natural areas of my property. I have been adding more natives to the area up in tight around my home but that has just been recently when I began buying shrubs.

I think you might be lumping two categories together in your question.

There is provenance which is basically the area where a given plant was propagated and grown. It has been my experience it is best to purchase plants that have been grown in a similar zone regardless of whether you are buying native or non native plants. In other words, people like you and I will probably lose plants if we buy them from Home Depot when the plant tag says the plant was grown in Tennessee or Georgia. I have not had good luck with growing trees or shrubs from the southeastern States. I have had great success ordering from all over Wisconsin and Iowa as well as from the southern half of Minnesota. I've been having issues with some of the plants grown in Oregon and Washington.

Then there is native range of a plant. This differs for a lot for people. There are those who won't plant anything on their property unless it is indigenous to their County and from within 25 miles. Most native plant folk seem to try to stick to 50 miles. Then there are people who feel that indigenous species occurring east of the Rockies belong east of the Rockies and indigenous species occurring west of the Rockies belong west of the Rockies. For me, indigenous species east of the Rockies and within 100 miles works. In other words, if a species occurs naturally within 100 miles of where my property is located... I am fine with adding that plant to the natural areas of my property providing I can purchase it from a nursery that propagated and grew it that is in Wisconsin or Iowa or southern Minnesota. I do try to buy local genotype when ever possible and local to me would be plants propagated from non-introduced species occurring naturally within 25 miles of my property.

Does this help?

Yes, it helps :o)
My problem is that there are no native nurseries within 25 miles from me. The best I can do would be Monee and Possibility Place and The Natural Garden up in St. Charles. Both are going to be 90 to over 100 miles away. So to buy from them, I could get a plant that is indigenous to my county, but not from local seed. Seed from within my county. Unless of course, I can get into some areas where I could gather seed. I also get east of the Rockies and west.....but isn't there a difference in the a plant from there to here also? I don't know or remember all the terms. I have lots of viburnums that wouldn't be considered native and a Grace Smokebush that's not native either. But I want to do all the rest in native plants. I did read somebody somewhere, that said if it wasn't local seed from within their county, then it wasn't really native. That's where I really get confused.

The big issue is that there are people who "coin" a plant native if it is indigenous to the continent of North America. I deem plants that occur west of the Rockies to be non natives to me just as I would deem plants from Europe or China to be non native. Everyone interprets native a little bit differently. The seed Dode is sending you is all from plants that are within 100 mile range of you so they should do fine.

Here is a nursery that I think you will like-
http://www.greatlakesnursery.com/

There are several others out there that would meet your needs but this is the first to come to mind. Is there a Wild Ones Chapter out your way? The members have annual seed swaps and all of their seed would be local genotype.

Native means from North America. As in the entire continent. Indigenous means originating from a particular area. At least that's my understanding of these terms. Introduced species are non-natives, not indigenous to this region, but many are well-adapted to our growing conditions and some have seeded into the wild, even becoming invasive (crowding out indigenous vegetation). I see nothing wrong with incorporating a few non-natives in your garden, that has been the rule rather than the exception for the past two hundred years!

The problem lies in the fact that whole ecosystems are disappearing, such as prairies and wetlands. You might be interested in joining a local conservation club, to learn more about the subject.They're also a great source for gardening inspiration!

I think the terms I've been reading are not only confusing to me, but also might be the wrong word. When I speak of something being native, I mean it's indigenous to my area. I always say native. In other words, if I say I want something native, I mean to my area. So I guess I really mean indigenous. Any chapter of anything is going to be far away from me. There's also no conservation club near here (that I know of). There's a garden club, but I don't want to talk about the new plants introduced for 2006, or how lovely the butterfly bushes and miscanthus grass look. Or the rose, or the hosta...etc. I've seen the gardens on the garden walks in my town, and they aren't indigenous gardens.

Take for instance the trees I want to add. They're indigenous to IL, but not to my county. I don't want to plant only what I've seen on the list for trees to my county. That was my question I guess. A tree that is native to IL, but is grown in Oregon. Is it still indigenous? The three trees I have in mind not indigenous to my county, but to the state....Nyssa sylvatica, Liriodendron tulipifera and Catalpa speciosa. This tree is indigenous to my county Ostrya virginiana, that I'd also like to add. I understand the whole introduced non native aspect and how some of them will become an invasive. I know that not all non natives are invasive. I get that part. What I don't get, is it indigenous to me, my area (say 100 miles), if it's not grown in this area from seed from this area. And the first three trees, are they still indigenous to IL when grown in Oregon?

Looks as if you're in Bureau County. You hit it dead on the head. Nyssa sylvatica, Liriodendron tulipifera and Catalpa speciosa are all introduced to your County. They are not indigenous species but they are native to the continent of North America. They mostly occurred from far southern Illinois on down south and further over into eastern states. I'd plant them even though they aren't indigenous to our Counties providing you could buy them from a nursery growing them in your area or somewhere in Wisconsin. If you're going to spend hard earned money buying plants, you might as well buy the ones that are more likely to survive. My property is an Oak/HickorySavanna as well as a wetlands. Technically speaking, many of the plants that I introduced in and around my home may be native to North America but not indigenous to this site. Hence the reason why I refer to them as non-natives regardless of whether they are indigenous to our continent or as is the case with my iris, indigenous to another continent.

From the link provided to me before on indigenous plants to IL, Nyssa sylvatica and Catalpa speciosa are all indigenous to Will County.....the county a friend of mine lives in, not 90 miles away and pretty much straight east. And where Possibility Place is. They have all the trees I'm interested in. To me, I would say they are native, but not native to my county. To say their non natives, sounds like they come from China or another country. I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again....I'm on a small lot, 60 x 132 right smack dab in the middle of this little town. Flat, no wetlands, no nothings. Surrounded by houses who's owners love their grass.

The other day I had to re-sign in...computer problems. I didn't realize that my town was listed. Yes, I'm in Bureau County :o)

To the best of my knowledge, these species "They mostly occurred from far southern Illinois on down south and further over into eastern states". Looks as if the Nyssa sort of crept over and around Will County into the southern most tip of Cook County and then around and down into Kankakee and Iroquois Counties but the map is difficult to see well and Nyssa could very well be in Will County by the Indiana border. Amy where they occur outside of the area shown on the map would be where they have naturalized.. They aren't native to your County or to mine. Personally, I find them to be attractive plants that aren't invasive in the least. I'd plant them if I lived where you live. Also too, The Possibility Place is running low on some 5 gallon plants because of Thumper damage.

Here is what is believed to be the native range of Nyssa sylvatica-
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/nyssa/silvatica.htm

Here is a clickable County map of Illinois-
http://www.iltrails.org/counties.html

Have fun when you go to The Possibility Place! I was there last weekend and had a blast and ended up buying some very nice plants.

The clickable map doesn't click for me. Running low as in maybe they'll run out? How in the world does one figure out what grows in the part of the county they're in? I thought I was doing good to learn what grew in the county, but I don't have a clue if it grows in this part of my county. Drive myself totally nuts if I tried to figure that out.....

Thanks for links. Informative reading on the first one. Oh, I know Possibility Place is also a wholesaler, so who do they sell their plants to? I have looked at trees and shrubs out at my local nursery, and I know they don't say it came from Oregon (that's a belated reply to when you talked about buying from HD).

Terry

Running low as in some of the $17, $18 and $20 5-gallon plants that were out in the field are selling out left and right leaving people to select from the more expensive B&Bs. The other problem is that a few species that were out in the field became Thumper nummies so there just weren't any to buy. I had planned on buying a few more than I did but rabbits were evidently particularly fond of some species. The Possibility Place may be a wholesaler but they sell to the Public so get your buns over there baby.

How does one know what is native to one's County??? For me, I relied upon some research station data but universities are a good source too and some Chapters of Wild Ones make this type of information available. My Torah and Talmud of plants is the book "Plants of the Chicago Region" by Flowd Swink and Gerould Wilhelm. I have all three publications and I will buy the new release coming out in the next year or so.

terry - are you near any "wild" areas, as in undeveloped land? The plants that grow in those places are sure bets for survival, although not neccessarily natives. Clear as mud, huh?

Sounds like I need to make a trip pretty darn soon! I have to call before I go, correct? I see things like, Plants of Chicago, Plants of NE IL, Plants of Southern IL....I emailed...who is it? U of I? ISU? One of them anyway. The first person pushed me off on somebody else, who pushed me off on somebody else, it kept going till finally they told me they have nothing with specific indigenous plants to specific counties in IL. But they did mail me out Dr. Ken Robertson's list of IL natives. Which is already on the internet and already bookmarked by me.

Prairie, no, unfortunately, there is no undisturbed land around here. Even City County Park is fussed over. Heck, the town fusses over all city owned land. I noticed last year walking down to my sisters house, the little tag things that companies leave behind when they weed n feed. This was the grass right by the water tank. And although my parents have timber, it was all clear cut about 15 yrs ago. Before they owned it. Now it's full of multi flora rose and jap honeysuckle. I'm just going to go find Lauren's house while she's away, and start digging. sshhh...don't tell her......:o)

Terry

Or you could try ditch-digging. Those plants are generally natives. :-o

I already had somebody over here last year digging. They stole two Winterthur Viburnum. I was livid. Dug them right up and took off with them. I had caught them digging the first time and when I stopped them they told me they thought that the land was forest preserve. I pointed to my house all of about 200' up the driveway. What more can you do. It's illegal to dig in the forest preserve and it's illegal to dig on my property. Guess they taught me! They came back when I wasn't around and stole my plants. I guess I can't plant anything out of view from the front of the house.

Are you kidding?? They stole your plants? I was joking Lauren...in light of that though, it was a pretty poor joke, eh? I would never dig anything without express permission first.

I know you were joking. I also told you to get your shovel and come on over here. I'll have some nice seedlings sprouting some time this summer and I winter sowed several hundred trays of all different species... and I share.

What really adds the icing to the cake is that those women stayed out toward the front of the property out of the line of the video cams or I would have had them on "candid camera" and I would have prosecuted. I have no doubt it was the first two women I saw the first time who told me they thought my place was forest preserve. Once you come over here and drive into the cul de sac you will see exactly how ridiculous that statement was. This is clearly a residential area although it is wooded. Nevertheless, I suspect they knew what they were doing because they had parked their car over on the road and walked down and into the cul de sac the first time they "visited". I noticed the car there that day but figured it belonged to Jehovah's Witnesses so I never took down the plate number because those people wouldn't so much as touch a dollar bill on the ground that flew out of somebody's pocket. Anyway, I am convinced it was the same two women and they must have known the place was wired for sound because they only took from the very front of the property by the road. Just another 50' up the driveway and anywhere else and I would have had their photos. One of the reasons why I am so livid. The very front of the property is not monitored.

Wow! That boggles my mind! My parents place is set up different, out in the country and they share a lane. But you hit a point when it becomes theirs and a buzzer, a very loud long buzzer, goes off in the house. Did you call the police? Write a letter to the editor? Those women are packing a little extra, if you catch my drift.....

I will be there with shovel in hand. You let me know when it's time.

Quite brazen in my humble opinion. I had just planted those. There was no way they could have missed the fresh hardwood mulch that wasn't even faded from the sun yet around the bases of those two plants. And the tags on them with the name of the Viburnum and the price? I suppose those could have been overlooked. Call the police on $20 a piece plants? They'd take an incident report and would be sincere when they told me they were sorry for my loss but I doubt tracking down the thieves would be high on their list. In retrospect, I probably should have at least gone in to the station to make a desk report in the event they are out there helping themselves to other people's plants.

Mid June is probably a good time to come. I've got shovels here but you might want to bring little pots if you want any seedlings.

It's the principle of the thing. Around here, it would have made it into the paper. Don't all shrubs grow with tags on them? Brazen is really being kind. We get letters in the paper all the time if someone steals a pumpkin, steals some gnome out of a garden......

Little pots.....oh....my girlfriend in Braidwood is getting ready to list her house and wanted pots. I took her almost all my pots. I kept some aside for the seed Dode is supposed to send. Darn. I'll see if I can't get more. My mom needs to go shopping to replace her morden pink after all......

Where I'm originally from, stolen plants would have made the blotter. You have to remember that I am in a north suburb of Chicago and $20 plants are not high on their list of priorities. Sad but true.

Yes, I think you better gather some small pots. I've got some orders coming in so I will set some aside too. Between the two of us, we'll get you enough little pots for seedlings.

I guess I'm saying a thief is a thief. If somebody ripped off the Seven 11 for a pop, it would get called into the police. They won't and can't probably do anything. But, if they did it to you, who's to say they aren't stealing other people's plants also? To me, it would be more of a head-up to them.