Woodchips & stones

The last owners of this house did some things to the garden beds I am trying to undo. The entire perennial bed was covered with landscaping cloth, which the best weeds handily put their roots through, thus anchoring it to the surface of the earth much more securely than any ground staple could do. When I pull up the cloth (plastic), it is basically shredding in places. In addition, they put a lot of a "mulch" that is basically large wood chips (not bark) under and over this. I cannot remove all this by hand. I'm not sure what do do about it: I want to start laying sheets of compost, grass clippings, and leaves down now that the landscaping fabric is gone, but I'm concerned the wood chips will cause some problem w/ nitrogen uptake as they slooooowly break down.

The other thing is those dumb landscaping pebbles. One garden is basically full of them -- not as mulch, oh no, -- but now incorporated into the soil. These, I realize, aren't breaking down. Shall I just start the sheet mulching/composting on top of this as well?

You're right to get the landscaping fabric out, but I wouldn't worry too much about the wood chips, just remove as much as you can. I think established perennials may be somewhat resistant to any fluxuations in nitrogen levels. Having some wood chips in your soil isn't the kiss of death for your plants as some would lead us to believe. True, when incorporated into the soil, they do tie up some nitrogen, but is easily remedied for me.

Since I use truckloads of wood chips in my gardens as mulch and to make compost, a lot get incorporated into the soil through normal garden activities. I simply rake out as much as I can. Then, I just rake in some extra nitrogen-containing matter (manure) where there seems to be an excess of chips in the soil. There always seems to be enough to feed the plants and the wood-eating microbes and the chips will break down much faster when in the soil rather than on the soil.

You pebbles are probably not a problem if they are not in layers that would hinder root growth. They're probably more of a visual nuisance. Other than sifting the soil to remove them, you may just have to live with the knowledge they're in there.

Wayne

The previous owner had a wood chip garden when I moved into my house. I just raked out as much as possible and then added some nice soil with compost and then put mulch that I like (sweet peet) on top. I bet you could rake that shredded landscape fabric too. I can't see worrying about pebbles. Around here, the soil is full of rocks and everything grows fine. I would just add your compost on top after raking as much as possible. Once you add your compost to the beds, you won't see those pebbles anymore.

In our Glacial moraine we have many rocks that are small. We also had a bed of river rock mixed with clay. So I got out my big shop vaccum and half filled with water and then went to the rocky area and sucked it up stones and all then I just poured out the water and soil back into the hole and the rocks were used elsewhere. IE Dry stream bed, water falls, bottom of ponds, weighing down water plants etc.
I also have used lots of wood chips for soil ammendment. Long term clay ammendment. I mix about 1 part of cow manure (composted) with 1 part wood chips and that makes the worms very happy and all the plants in the bed. This of course I mix with rototiller with compost, clay (natural soil), and loam. And a list of others. This is how I in the alkaline soils of dry Montana achieve long term Acidic soil. Wood chips are my best friend in my clay alkaline beds that need PH adjustment.

I agree , Soferdig, Wood chips were also my best friend when I had my market garden in heavy clay in the southern part of NY. They're also my best friend now up here in my new sandy garden. For me, wood chips, fresh horse manure and time make great compost.

Patience is always rewarded with compost.

Wayne

This message was edited Apr 3, 2006 7:41 PM

Thanks; my soil tends alkaline, so maybe this is one of them blessings-in-disguise thingamabobs.

And I wish I could sift the side garden of its pebbles, but there just aren't enough hours in the day. The shop vac idea I may try out. I'll have to see what grows in it anyway; lots of shade, tons of leaf mold.

You? Alkaline? How much rain do you get? What is the soil's parent material/inorganic-texture?

The Extension agent here (Dr. Swift- you've read his articles.) promotes, above all, the use of course material in clay as to loosen the soil and let air/water in. Wood chips also take thier time. As we all should know, organic matter goes away slowly but surely and needs replenishing. It's God's original time-release fertilizer.
Swift laughs at the claim of nitrogen depletion. Sure, he might say, if you add more woodchips than soil.

I personally used several tons of woodchips courtesy of local tree trimmers if they came through my neighborhood. That is when I found out that to compost woodchips, you need a majority (a great majority) of manure in a managed pile!
I never experienced any nitrogen problems- in fact, I had too much the first season regardless. The best part were the interesting mushrooms that sprouted everywhere from the chips.

Finally (when will this guy ever shut up?) I tell you that the best compost I ever did have was a load of finely-chopped/shredded woodchips with more than the same amount of fresh grass clippings. I need to call them and have them come by again...

K. James

Limestone. Don't know how much rain we get normally, but we're well under normal so far this spring.

Nitrogen depletion's a myth? So if I turn under sod and immediately plant, my plants won't have problems? Isn't this the Meister Swift who was mirthful also about people trying to change their soil's pH? He sounds like a happy soul. Alas, my unamended clay is at about 8.0, and no self-respecting potato or blueberry plant will grow in it without some help.

I have all the wood shavings-covered-with-chicken-poo I want, and can barter for straw and horse manure, so I will do my best to improve these beds quickly, as I'd like a riot of color from annuals. It all comes down to unencumbered time, and I've got a lot less of that than I have compost ingredients.

Any soil can have its ph changed. Alkaline soil needs water= irrigation, compost = acid, (clay that is not white = calcium carbonate), clay that is colored = good and neutral. The only thing that makes soil alkaline is salts. Wash them out of raised beds and ammend the soil you place in the raised bed. You are right you are not going to ammend any of the natural soil but who grow in natural soil but those in the Midwest? Any body who scoffs at soil ammendment not being possible needs only to look at planet earth. The soils have been ammended for eons.

I had the fellow who works for me dig two large holes about 2 ft X 2 ft, to plant 2 Tea Roses. This is the first time I have planted the large flowering Tea roses at this location. I love roses but am not a great fan of growing them. My sister in Omak grows lovely roses, but she is constantly spraying, dusting, etc. them for bugs etc. and I don't do that.

Anyway back to the holes, In the soil removed from the large holes were chunks of what I think you soferdig were referring to as white clay, I have seen the white clay chunks before when digging and do know that my soil is very alkaline. Should I have thrown the white stuff over into the gully? I didn't , just put back in the holes. Actually I only used about half of the removed soil, when planting the roses. Amended with a mix of manure, compost and home shredded pieces, along with a little Planters 2 and a small amount of Endomycorrhizal innoculant.

I don't know Donna what you guys have as calcium carbonate soils. Here in Montana we have Glacial Lake Missoula clay from late glacial activity. It is a white 18 to 24" deep deposit all around where Glacial Lake Missoula left it. It if still layered is inpenetrable to roots or worms or atomic bombs. When I was choosing our home years ago if any of this soil was near the surface we did not consider the house. The realator thought I was quite strange digging soils at each house we visited. I have a small area here that that soil is and I dug it up and replaced the area with compost and Sandy loam. Why do you use the innoculant? Haven't you just used good dirt to innoculate soils for activity.

Here is bit of info from one of my sheets about mycorrhizal activity, many benefits increased nutritrient uptake, enhanced tolerance of various enviormental stresses such as drought and soil salinity. The last two are why I add mychorrizae. Good dirt isn't just lying around waiting for me to plant in it. Your soil I'm sure is better to start with. There actually is just a thin layer or the calcium carbonate, about 12" below soil surface.

Donna

Well Donna you at least have good drainage in Tonasket. Hee Hee. Your layer is from our neck of the woods when all of eastern washington was flodded with the Ice Dam break in Priest Lake area. Then the release of the monster lake into the columbia drainage all within 3 weeks. That is when that layer got put down there.

Land and water issues in the American west are so...interesting.

Yes, Steve, Wonderful drainage!! Put water on the ground, especially here in foothills of Cascades, and it just disappears. It is trying to rain right now. The weather man has been predicting rain for this area for past 2 days, and today a few drops. My DIL over near Tacoma, says it is just pouring down rain there, but seems as usual to have a problem getting over the mountains. Had to sprinkle my raised bed with lettuce and radish seed planted in it, this morning, getting dry.

Donna