Viburnum Blooming Schedules and Favorites

Ok. Ever since I saw a garden in Portland, OR that was amazing having had a mix of so much plant material with a group of low-growing Viburnums in bloom I've always been attracted to them. Then while working at various nurseries I became interested in both Viburnum carlesii and Viburnum juddii for their dark green textured and almost rubbery "leathery" leaves (as I think they're leaves are often described as being), and their fragrance, I've always had interest for these shrubs. Then while working at a nursery with a large hedge of V. dentatum 'Arrowwood' which didn't impress or move me one way or the other I've still kept some interest for these shrubs but truthfully was interested in other things (conifers) to really get to start to begin thinking about Viburnums. So that's why it is I'm writing.

Sometime I plan to move and when that day comes I'd like to add groups of Viburnums or incorporate them in some way into a garden mainly dominated by Conifers - then plantings of Deciduous Azaleas, deciduous trees, and the like...etc., etc. whatever and whichever stuff I've gained a taste for; Clematis being another of my favorites.

Therefore, what I'd be interested to know is which ones you guys rate as being your favorites and hopefully at the same time learn about blooming schedules so when I plant, I hopefully have well incorporated groups of Viburnums that have different bloom times into my "mix." Plus I enjoy birds immensely including all wildlife, butterfilies, you name it , so I've decided it's time for me to start asking, actually way past time...

I thank you all for your contributions in advance. I know at least one "rat" on this forum who should be a big help and that person would be the big "VV"- aka "Viburnum 'Wino' Valley...so hook me up if you would! In the meantime I'll be over here nibblling on some cheese and enjoying 'the show.'

Also, I'll be growing a lot of Blueberries as well and here's a pretty unique one I ran across for you other Blueberry enthusiast's out there: http://www.raintreenursery.com/catalog/ProductDetails.cfm?ProductID=E295

Dax

No, no, I couldn't possibly.

I defer to the esteemed gentleman from Elburn, IL.

Horserubbish!

The Viburnum I have here were some of the few "nice" plants I inherited when we bought this property. I love my Viburnum however some of them get real big. My V. lentago here are pushing 20' in height and a few might actually be taller than that. I think I also inherited V. recognitum. Not positive but I'll be waiting for those to leaf out this year to check, Those are around 7-8' in height and I only have a few.

Five years ago I planted V. opulus 'Roseum' on either side of my AC units and those have grown quite nicely. I really like those but they were sort of ho hum once I began to realize all that was out there. Two years ago, I planted several V. trilobum 'Alfredo', V. plicatum var tomentosum 'Shasta', V. dentatum, and then added more V. lentago. Last year I added 2 V. lantana 'Mohican' as well as 2 V, nudum 'Winterthur' which were planted out front and some moron dug them up and stole them but that's ok because they were replaced by friends ;)

Today, I'll be digging holes for V. x pragense (a favorite right up there with V. nudum 'Winterthur'), V. nudum, and Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum.

So far this year I've ordered V. burkwoodii, V. dentatum 'Chicago Lustre', more V. plicatum var. tomentosum 'Shasta', more V. lantana 'Mohican', and V. rhytiophyllum but I won't have those for a few weeks. Then I think I'll be able to buy V. burkwoodii 'Mohawk', two more V. x pragense, V. dentatum 'Cardinal', V. dentatum 'Autumn Jazz', and V. prunifolium 'John's Favorite'. I believe I found a nursery that has both V. acerifolium and V. rafinesquianum and if I can get them to pick up the phone to take my order, I will order a few of those.

These are the Viburnum I currently have or will have over here. They aren't all established plants but I could take notes for you to let you know when they start blooming and how long they bloom once they do if you would like. It wouldn't be that hard and I could just set a clip board in my garage to help me remember to do this.

Off the top of my head, I think you should take a look at the V x pragense (evergreen), 'Winterthur', V. acerifolium, V. burkwoodii 'Mohican', and then the 'Shasta' is a favorite for its horizontal layered effect. I'm finding Viburnum to be very exciting and very underutilized. These are my top picks based on what I've seen so far. I think Viburnum go well with all types of plantings. They seem to nestle in quite nicely and the leaves have such definition and texture to them which is an added bonus to me.

I liked your 'Toro' Blueberry selection but this is not a Blueberry year for me. This is the year of Conifer and Viburnum for me. Speaking of which, I'm going to Rich's Foxwillow Pines next weekend and I am going to pick up a few plants. High on my list is P. banksiana 'Uncle Fogy', P. sylvestris 'Hillside Creeper', and Taxodium distichum 'Fastigiata' but there are a few Larix laricina I need to look at over there as well as a few Ginkgo. You and a few others have me lusting for Conifers so it is only fair that you should now be lusting for Viburnum. Happy hunting!

Oops, that looks bad. Before somebody pokes sport at my comments and plays on my words... what I meant was that I am lusting for Pinus, Larix, and maybe a few more Thuja in addition to Viburnum and Carnivorous Plants.

Hi Equilibrium, thanks.

I'm familiar with 'Mohican'...I don't know why but that one didn't impress all that much either. I'm probably in the minority there in that respect.

'Chicago Lustre' = 'Arrowwood' if I remember correctly but my knowlege of Viburnums is relatively very small.

Good luck on conifer hunt, you'll enjoy these plants too immensely and good morning as well!

Time for some breakfast and coffee for me.

Talk to you guys later,

Dax

Dax:

What exactly are you after? Did you want to start growing some plants in anticipation of your move? If you want to order some, call Gary and Susan at Classic Viburnums in Nebraska. I just returned from a trip to see my family in Omaha, with a sidetrip to Classic Viburnums. WOW. It's Viburnum heaven. They have anything and everything you could possibly want, plus many you would never have even heard of. (Equil--they have the V. acerifolium and V. rafinesquianum, and as an added bonus, they came from cuttings from my own plants, which are of local provenance!)

Back to Dax--I too am a sucker for the fragrance of many of the Viburnum. You can start quite early with V. farreri 'Candidissimum' or 'Nana', which are just about ready to bloom right now. The V. x burkwoodii and V. carlesii cultivars can string out the fragrance season for up to a month. I have my house encircled with every possible cultivar. If you are looking to feed the wildlife, enter the world of V. dentatum and the myriad of cultivars that bloom over a long period. We can steer you to cultivars that bloom close enough in sequence to maximize fruit production. The V. plicatum tomentosum group also fruits heavily in some cases, as does the V. dilatatum and related, as well as V. sieboldii. You can run up to Ridge Road Nursery, the home of V. sieboldii 'Wavecrest', and get one of the finest types(be sure to add another related type to maximize fruit production). V. lentago, V. prunifolium, V. cassinoides, V. nudum, and V. rufidulum are the natives that also produce abundant fruit. V. rhytidophllum, V. lantana, and the crosses all make lots of fruit. We need more info on what you are looking for to steer you in the right direction. Alternatively, you can take my and VV's approach and just own them all!

This message was edited Apr 2, 2006 12:01 PM

I was outside pretty much all morning digging a few holes, collecting rainwater, and moving landscape bricks from a raised bed I had created that I changed my mind on in favor of making more room to plant Conifers as a windbreak! It started raining pretty good so I'm done for a while.

The 'Chicago Lustre' is also V. dentatum 'Synnestvedt' which is an Arrowwood. You should take a look at this plant because it can take full sun to shade, has those awesome textbook Viburnum leaves, flowers sometime in early summer (can't remember exactly when though), and gets these great berries that are such a dark blue that they almost look black. It's not a real tall shrub either in that I think it only attains heights of about 8'.

Classic Viburnums in Nebraska does not have a website. Bummer. I would really like to buy V. rufidulum as well as V. rafinesquianum and the acerifolium I can wait on for Viburnum Valley to be in a position to sell because I think that is one he is propagating. I'll see if I can call them. Ridge Road Nursery appears to be somewhere out in Woodstock but I can't find any contact information to it and I'd like to maybe stop in there next weekend when I go to Rich's Foxwillow Pines Nursery if at all possible when I'm out in the same area. Kevin, would you e-mail me contact information as well as an address for this Ridge Road Nursery please? I'd like to see this V. sieboldii 'Wavecrest' you mentioned and maybe... help me here... buy one. What the heck, seems as if one can't have too many Viburnum. Now I don't want to own every one out there like you and John but I wouldn't mind having a nice chunk of them blooming and fruiting over here.

Hi Lauren,
Here is a link to Ridge Road Nursery. I have tried to make it to this nursery a few times but so far I have not been there. I, too, would like to try Viburnum sieboldii 'Wavecrest', but I had V. sieboldii 'Ironclad' and it didn't make it through its first winter, so I'm not sure if 'Wavecrest' would survive either.

I think it was Kevin_5 who posted photos of his 'Wavecrest' a few years ago on GardenWeb and the plant is beautiful and more tree-like than a shrub, but I bet it can be grown in either form.

Here's the link:

http://www.ridgeroadplants.com/

Mike

Thanks for the link Mike. I'll be going there next Saturday with my girlfriend if they are open. I caught that they were selling Corylus cornuta as well as Sassafras albidum and I need those and I'd like to take a look at their V. sieboldii 'Wavecrest' and now I'd like to look at their 'Ironclad'. Oh gosh; they also have Nyssa sylvatica in tree form, Callicarpa dichotoma, Fothergilla major, Ostrya virginiana, and Comptonia peregrina. Why do I sense this is going to be a very costly trip for me? If I am able to stop in, would you like me to buy a 'Wavecrest' for you that I could bareroot and send up north for you to try?

Equil, might as well rent an eighteen wheeler cause it looks as if you might need it. Also you might have to redeem a few of the gold certificates. I'm feeling pretty sorry for Carl, this is going to be alot of digging, I'd hold a couple bucks back for the chiropractor. Ken

Sweet...

Hi Kevin,

Pretty basic. I want to feed wildlife and incorporate them into a 10 acre parcel. My primary goal is conifers but I'll also be focusing on outstanding fall color, flowering and fruiting shrubs...basically what I've already written.

I want to be able to smell fragrance up near my home and within the garden so... Also, I want to draw birds into the garden and also feed them on the outskirts as well.

This is basically an arboretum of conifers with color, bark texture and color, interesting plants...

Which could be another whole subject on its own..

So, fragrance near the home, etc, etc.

Deciduous Azaleas will also take up a lot of room in the garden.

I'm just getting ideas - jotting down plant names at the moment and with viburnums I want to make sure I have the right combinations to set as much fruit as possible in the garden.

In summary I'm looking for a lot of fruit and a long flowering time as I'll definitely have plenty of room!

Plus we'll be putting in a huge lake (outside my 10 acres) and I'll be landscaping around that, plus my buddy's home as well. He (our friend of the family) will have about 40 acres and he's going to grow Christmas trees as well as nursery stock which amounts to trees and shrubs/woody plants. I'm the arboretum/plant collector, he's in it for the money. And I'll grow a little too for selling like him to supplement my income, but not much. I'm not in it for "stress", I just want to grow and garden and tool around on my lawn mower and make compost and grow my own food, etc.

That's the deal. So if any of you can tell me which ones are the most fragrant, which grow the tallest and flower the best, which grow the shortest but spead and flower abundatntly, which ones you can't live without due to "unique" characteristics (combos of the best flowers and fruit production), maybe showier leaves, maybe a wild variegated one or two or three, maybe one that has uncommon bark, anything that would make it a standout plant............and then lastly that with these selections I have the correct companions within the property to ensure that these favorites produce as many berries as possible.

I'm looking for the whole deal...

Thanks again,

Dax

Equil: Classic Viburnums 308-425-3057 They will have any, and I mean ANY, Viburnum you are looking for. You could even buy flats full of liners if so inclined. Ridge Road is in Iowa, if you haven't caught that yet. It would be a good 3 hours from Woodstock.

Dax: For fragrance near the home, follow my lead! Around my house are 'Mohawk', 'Chenaultii', 'Summer Hill', 'Aurora', Judd, 'Cayuga', carlesii compactum, 'Spiced Bouquet', 'Fullbrook', 'Sarcoxie', V. carlcephalum, 'Diana', and now several Classic Viburnum cultivars to add. Fruit production is actually quite good on these plants with all the cross pollination going on. I have changed my tune in that regard---you CAN have fruit and fragrance.

Large shrub/small tree types--V. prunifolium, V. lentago, V. rufidulum--plant these three together for cross pollination and large amounts of fruit. 'Summer Magic' is an excellent V. prunifolium cultivar--ask me again in a few years and I will have comments on more cultivars that show promise now. Along the same lines, V. sieboldii 'Wavecrest', 'Seneca', and 'Ironclad' can be planted together for a good show.

Smaller shrubs(can take wet)--V. cassinoides and V. nudum have massive fruit set with terrific berry colors. 'Winterthur' is one cultivar, but I have not seen it to be any better than the typical seedling. Great fall color with both.

Smaller V. dentatum for flowers and fruit--Papoose, Blue Blaze, Raspberry Tart, Little Joe(no fall color)

Large V. dentatum--the Klehm hybrids all bloom together and have wonderful fall color and fruit production--Cardinal, Red Regal, Crimson Tide, Indian Summer

V. dilatatum--all flower together, all produce ample fruit(so much so that they are looking to be invasive in the east).

V. plicatum tomentosum--a special shrub, perhaps the most beautiful in flower, and some are great fruit producers. Try Shoshoni or Newport for a shorter version, Shasta and Mariesii for larger types. Magic Puff is also one that is supposed to be smaller. Molly Schroeder is newer and has pink flowers that rebloom. I have tried to accumulate all these cultivars that I can find as I think they are just a fantastic plant.

V. lantana and related--there is a variegated V. lantana, as well as a yellow leaf version, both mildly interesting. I like the leatherleaf V. rhytidophyllum and V x rhytidophylloides where space is not an issue. They are whoppers, 15X15 is not odd, with massive flowering and fruiting to boot. Some say semi-evergreen, which for Zone 5 means crappy tattered leaves that last into January. Birds absolutely love these plants. Good nesting sites.


There are many more species that could be discussed, but my fingers ache and poison ivy is making them a wee bit itchy to boot. More later if interested.

Hi Lauren,
Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that offer, if you go, if I cannot find V. s. 'Wavecrest' at Kevin_5's Classic Viburnums source.

I'll see if I can call Classic Viburnums tomorrow to see if they have 'Wavecrest' for sale.
Thanks again,
Mike

Dear Ken, I dig my own holes honey! Sometimes I pay our oldest to do a few if he wants pocket money but he's been so busy lately working at his part time jobs that he's just not interested in digging holes for me. Imagine that, not interested in digging my holes. Hubby is safe!

Dear Kevin, thank you ever so much for separating me from my money... once again. By the way, where can I get my hands on a 'Newport' or a 'Magic Puff" or two. If I'm going down the Viburnum tube, I might as well go down with a few more V. plicatum tomentosum cultivars and I mustn't go Magic Puffless now that I've read up on that. What do you know about 'Everblooming' and 'Weeping Magic'?

Dear Mike, Please do not cyber slap me but I thought Ridge Road Nursery was in Woodstock. Woodstock is only about an hour and a half away from me. I know I will not drive another 3 hours to Iowa even if they have a bunch of plants I want. There's just no way I could do that. I am not the world's greatest driver to begin with so I don't like to drive after dark and I can get lost in a paper bag. This past Saturday when we drove to The Possibility Place, Dode had her hands full riding shot gun for me. I'm sure she was about ready to choke me. 9 hours in a car in one day is way too much for me and I value my friendship with Dode. Forgive me, I didn't know Ridge Road Nursery was in Iowa. Is there anything you might be interested in at Rich's Foxwillow Pines Nursery?

I would guess Everblooming is just another variant of Summer Snowflake and or Watanabei and or .........

Weeping Magic appears to be a "grows sideways more than up" kind of plant, with a bit of weep to the branches.

Classic Viburnums has Newport and Magic Puff, and Weeping Magic as well.

Thanks a lot Kevin.

Dax

(Thanks everybody)

Dax

Hi Lauren,
No problem! If I can make it there this summer I'll let you know. I will call Classic Viburnums to see if they carry 'Wavecrest'.

Rich has a lot of really cool plants, but there is nothing that I can't live without right now so I'll pass on the offer - but thanks for asking!
Take care...
Mike

Awww, the lady at Classic Viburnums was so sweet. She gave me a few more Viburnum suggestions and I think I'm going with her recommendations when I order. She told me it was ok to give out her e-mail address for anyone here who wants a list of Viburnum they offer for sale so here it is-
SueClassicViburnums@rcom-ne.com

You might want to put in the subject line that you want a price list.

Here's to others being separated from their money!

Mike, she's got 'Wavecrest'.

Lauren

Thanks, Lauren!

I have sent an email requesting her mail order list. Do you know if she can send the list out via email? I gave her my address just in case she can't send the list via email.
Thank again,
Mike
(this could be very, very dangerous!)

(edited to correct spelling)

This message was edited Apr 3, 2006 5:06 PM

I talked to her on the phone earlier this morning. I sent her a test e-mail so she'd have my e-mail address. She said she got the test e-mail but I think she must have forgotten to reply with the list. They sounded pretty busy over there so maybe it will come tomorrow. She indicated their list would be able to be sent so if I don't see it in the next few days, I'll give her a call back. If you get your list, forward it to me and vice versa. Yup, this is going to be dangerous. She mentioned they grew about 130 different Viburnum. My check book is going to be puking at me.

Sound of Mike/treelover3 being drawn inexorably into the Viburnum Vortex...

There are worse fates.

Dax:

You are real close on the "horserubbish" as I do reside in thoroughbred equine country. That could refer to Kevin as well, though, since he used to be a practicing equine vet (wised up, or he'd be poor as a churchmouse).

I believe you get the best info from those that know and grow in your zone. "The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plain..."

If no one up IL way had much to say, then I'd have weighed in earlier. But they have, and vigorously. I'd watch that Kevin guy, though. He's withholding. I know he has personally gone gaga over Viburnum dentatum var. deamii, one of the most glossy leaved plants around though similar in other respects to the rest of the arrowwoods. I'd throw a pitch in for Viburnum molle, too. That's the Kentucky viburnum with exfoliating bark but similar to arrowwood otherwise.

I have referenced here on DG (and the other site) my list. It should be its own thread, but it is all about the things you started out asking about (function, form, flower, fragrance, fruit, foliage, fall color). I'll hunt it up and repost, or start a new thread.

See this back thread for more info on pollinations amongst the tribe:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/568744/

And, pending education, experience, and examination, you might well become the newest member of the VACUUM club; see this thread for a fine fragrance foment:

(http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/568765/)

Mike, there are at least two cultivars of V. sieboldii that are fairly ancient at the MN Arb. Bloom and fruit well, and have never seen any die back. I'll bet Ironclad is the exception rather than the norm for survival.
Rick

Thanks for all the information links VV. It's all about bloom times overlapping. The obvious (to me) that seedlings are sexually produced offspring (combinations of parents), that cuttings are true to name (asexual), etc. etc. just as with anything. Sure, the exceptions that some are infertile/sterile, etc. and that importantly Viburnums are monoecious so multiple bloomers will indeed help fruit production even though they can fruit themselves (self-pollinate).

When the time to buy comes I'll have some plants to chase after.

Thanks to everybody,

Dax

Mike:

Don't forget you can't get JUST 'Wavecrest', as you need something like 'Seneca' to pump up that fruit display. Have room for 2X20'? Check here for Gene Coffman's description and picture http://www.ridgeroadplants.com/lists.htm#VIBURNUMS

"Viburnum sieboldii Wavecrest: The Siebold Viburnum from Japan can attain the size of a small tree (20’). It has handsome, lustrous deep green leaves with deep veining; blooms heavily with 5" white flat-topped flowers, followed by large crops of bright orange berries and spectacular barn red fall foliage. The berries are hung on clusters of bright orange pedicels which persist after the berries fall, and make a gorgeous display in combination with the red foliage. The plant is hardy in Zone 4 and certainly one of the finest shrubs for northern gardens."

One thing I noticed when cleaning seed is how great the berries smell! I might have to get into the perfume business......

I think I've found another weakness...

great...

Dax

I'm taking immunizations right now.
Gotta fight this disease . . .

Guy S.

But 20 Foot Viburnums!!!

Can't fight it!

Good luck Guy, I'm feeling for you, that's for sure.

Dax

20' on the 'Wavecrest', eh? I don't know why I thought it only got to 8'. Must have been another one of my out of body experiences. I've been having a lot of those lately.

Oh it'll get there EQ, you just need to be a young pup like me to see it!

I hear you though. Gonna have to start robbing from Melvin to pay Marvin.

Hang in there EQ! Me, I'm just gonna start hittin' the sauce again. I can't handle being around you people anymore, I'm going broke just sitting here!

There's no use in fighting...

Dax

Don't buy them -- grow your own from seed or cuttings. Saves money, and gives you a sense of parenthood!

We already have an 18-foot V. sieboldii by our garage door, a V. lentago tree nearby, and about a dozen shrub Viburnum species around the house. And the Illinois Champion V. prunifolium out in the woods, a wild (native) tree possibly dating back to the 1930s. And I have a couple more V species in seed flats now.

Gotta focus back on oaks now and get away from this V drivel! Wouldn't want to become another Vernacular Vermiculation . . .

Guy S.

VV,
Yes, the sound is deafening.

Rick,
Thanks for the info. You'll have to let me know where the V. sieboldii is located so I can go look at it. Are the plants in an exposed or protected position?

Kevin,
Thanks. I am aware of the need of another unrelated V. sieboldii for good fruit production. I had purchased the 'Ironclad' hoping it would be the cross pollinator for my soon-to-be-purchased 'Wavecrest'. Unfortunately the 'Ironclad' didn't survive and I have not been able to get to Iowa to purchase 'Wavecrest'.

Guy,
How wide is your V. sieboldii?

Does anyone know how wide 'Wavecrest' gets? Height isn't an issue, but width is...
Thanks,
Mike

Mike:

I saw the mother plant years ago at Gene Coffman's place. It seems to me it was an upright kind of plant(10' wide maybe???), but it was also growing in amongst other plants in the woods. That's a very vague memory, but I am going to visit Gene's soon, so I will get another look at it.

I thought you were gone. How are you logging on? Did something happen to your trip or are you on somebody else's computer?

Sieboldii is a stinky plant, eh?

I have the other hand packing the suitcase as I type this. Leaving in the morning -- just can't resist one final peek at the forum!

Guy S.

Stinky is in the nose of the beholder! I'll admit I get hints of green pepper when the leaves are crushed. So, I don't crush the leaves, or brush them, just admire them. Now, the falling autumn leaves of V. prunifolium--THAT'S a stink! Smelly socks anyone?

Perhaps individual plants, as well as individual noses, vary. I only have one of them, and it's bad. I'll agree with the cat part, if it's the size of a lion and the effluent has been mouldering for about a week! Realllllly raunchy! Like you, I try to avoid touching it and making it mad. The foiliage is spectacular, though, from a foot or more away.

Never notice an odor problem with V. prunifolium here, and we have hundreds of them all over the woods. Go figure.

Guy S.

Kevin, you have such a way with words.