Beetle Farming 101

Guilford, CT(Zone 7a)

I have jumped into a strange new world - of Beetle Farming!
Purple Loostrife is an invasive plant that arrived in the US in the 1800's. It quickly took over bog & marsh areas, smothering other native plants & negatively affecting wildlife. This pretty plant grows 5-10 feet tall! It is not adequate for foraging, & birds do not like it for nesting.
So we import the Galerucella beetle to help control this plant. These beetles ensure that this plant stays in check in other continents, but the US did not have it before. This program of farming beetles has been in use for several years. I attended a seminar for potential farmers to learn more. The program is very interesting, & I will be doing my part to help spread the populations of this beneficial beetle in CT. Other states are also farming these beetles - this plant is a nationwide concern, & Canada too.
Here is the link:
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/ipmbio.htm
Right now I am gathering my supplies - 3 gallon pots, making my netting & building bamboo cages. We collect clumps of the plant in a pot, & place them in water to grow. Mama & Papa beetles are collected (by us!) & placed into the potted plants, & covered by netting. Then we wait for about a month, allowing the beetles to reproduce. We begin with 15 beetles, & end up with 1500! (Multiply that by the number of pots) Each location should receive 3000 or more beetles for best results. Then they are released into targeted problem areas, & monitored for results - which can be seen within a couple of years. But the long term mission is to control this invasive plant - NOT to eradicate it.
I hope to take photos of this project as I go along. While it may not be terribly exciting, I really am impressed by this!
Julie

Pahrump, NV(Zone 8b)

Similar program here in the SW to control tamarisk since 2001.

I find it very exciting, a common sense approach to a widespread problem which doesn't require creating more useless and unenforceable legislation, who would've thought :).

This message was edited Apr 1, 2006 10:22 PM

Guilford, CT(Zone 7a)

I hear you! Have they found an appropriate insect or other biological control for Tamarisk? I googled some, but I read mostly about how invasive it is. It sounds more aggressive than the loosestrife! The purple loosestrife came in via the water & rivers, so humans were not to blame. But no one noticed until it had really taken hold. Then years passed before a solution could be found.
I hope I never bring in something invasive to my own garden - you never know, when you trade with other zones. Some plants could truly be invasive in a different climate - I see that all the time in the PlantFiles!

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

Tamarisk is a pest tree here, I wonder if TX has a beetle project.

Pahrump, NV(Zone 8b)

Yes there is a beetle, actually a family of them as different ones were needed for the broad range of climates that tamarisk is a problem in. And yes, Texas is part of this program.

The one problem they've run into is one endangered species of bird (southwestern willow flycatcher) has adopted the tamarisk so...no releases allowed in southern NV. Also none of the beetles thus far have shown an ability to survive the climate here.

On private property you can remove them (the tamarisk, not the birds) but that is more easily said than done for most people. A 4 inch tall seedling will have a 2 or 3 foot deep taproot. Not too mention it is an ongoing battle since about 1 out of every 4 or 5 properties in the county are literally buried in tamarisk. In a lot of areas they completely line roadways. A legacy from the days of agriculture in the valley....farmers used them as windbreaks to line their fields at the same time they were wiping out cottonwoods and native willows which were the traditional nesting places for the flycatcher. Why on earth was anyone engaging in large scale agriculture here in the desert? Not going to get into that one but you can look it up pretty easily, say thank you to our federal government ROFL.

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

They used tamarisk for windbreaks here too. Now they're using Australian Pines-Casuarina. From the amount of seedlings/sprouts under and around those pine trees, I think they are going to be a problem too.

Guilford, CT(Zone 7a)

Sometimes what appears to be a great solution to a problem turns out to be a future nightmare. A fast growing windbreak sounds great - when you are not aware of the dangers of an invasive plant!
A local garden center doanted the 3 gallon pots for my beetles today - Now to sew together the organza netting cages!

Tamarisk is one of the 10 plants I wish was totally wiped from this continent.

Australian Pines will probably prove to have been a poor choice in the years to come. Live and learn. Illinois has made its fair share of poor choices in the not so distant past too.

Purple Loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria) is indigenous to the following areas:
Japan, China, Central Russia, Southeast Asia, Northern India, Central Europe, and Southern Europe

PL did not come from Canada or Northern States via water and rivers.

The plant was introduced to North America back in the mid 1800's for ornamental use. It's beauty has been recorded as far back as the Middle Ages and we Americans lusted to recreate that beauty here. It was later introduced for medicinal use. Again, we wanted that plant for its alleged healing properties in that branches, leaves, and roots were used to create tonics that treated everything from dysentery, internal & external bleeding, wounds, and ulcers. PL is still sold as an ornamental in all States other than the handful that have made its distribution illegal. There were also unintentional introductions of the plant but by then the invasion was well underway. In the late 1800’s, ship ballasts carrying PL seeds were dumped for the return trip to Europe and needless to say the invasion process began along the eastern seaboard.

In the early 1900’s, beekeepers determined that PL flowers could be a great source of nectar for overwintering their colonies. Sadly, we have intentionally been sowing PL seeds into wetlands and headwaters to ensure an endless supply of nectar for our bees. Oddly enough, re-creation and restoration of native wetland habitat as well as the re-introduction of native wetland species would provide a superior source of nectar for beekeeper’s bees. To add insult to injury, the Green Industry began developing and marketing varieties of PL sold as “sterile” in the mid 1900’s and we stood in line to buy them. Often marketed as "Guaranteed sterile", highly fertile cultivars of PL were introduced to even more landscapes across the US. What we weren’t told was that while most cultivars were in fact self-sterile, they were anything but incapable of reproducing sexually with another self-sterile cultivar. Self-sterile meaning that one plant could not reproduce alone. Symantics. The big problem was that we weren’t told that “Guaranteed Sterile” cultivars could produce large quantities of extremely viable seed when functioning as either male or female parents in cross breeding with other cultivars and species of loosestrife. And, wasps were such effective pollinators that the cultivars didn’t even need to be in close proximity to each other to set seed.

I mention this because we North Americans are almost exclusively to blame for the pickle we are currently in with PL and our tax dollar is being used in attempts to control and manage it. Now, the natural environment does work against us in perpetuating the spread to even more natural areas as was noted by JRush. This is why control work starts at the top of a watershed to prevent seed from flowing downstream. That being said, PL is here to stay. It is virtually impossible to eradicate once established so focus should be on stopping its introduction to new areas. Educating the public is paramount and we shouldn’t need any more laws on the books to do it.

The beetles currently being used to attempt to control PL are Galerucella calmariensis and G. pusilla. The beetles are leaf eaters and they defoliate and attack the terminal bud area which can reduce seed production and increase the mortality rate of PL seedlings. Unfortunately, PL not only reproduces sexually but also asexually. It can and does spread vegetatively. “Buried stems harbor adventitious buds with the ability to produce shoots or roots. Disturbance to the plant, such as stomping and breaking underground stems, or breaking off stems or roots during incomplete plant removal, initiates bud growth”. Although I am beginning to see a toll taken on PL because the plants lose some of their ability to photosynthesize, I don’t think the Galerucella beetles can do it on their own. I do not view them as the silver bullet they have been touted as being based on personal experiences attempting to colonize them. Establishment of the beetles can be incredibly difficult particularly when one is attempting to populate areas in which PL infestations are light. Last year with the severe droughts in our area, many people who were attempting to colonize these beetles lost their “stock” so weather trends can negatively impact a beetle colony too. Often times repeated introductions will be necessary over a span of 5-10 years and many people start out with the best of intentions but soon lose the ability to keep up with farming and introducing the beetles yearly. There's another bug out there that I believe might prove to be extremely promising, Hylobius transversovittatus. That's a root mining weevil. “This beetle eats from the leaf margins, working inward. The female crawls to the lower 2-3 inches of the stem then bores a hole to the pithy area of the stem where 1 -3 eggs are laid daily from July to September. Or, the female will dig through the soil to the root, and lay eggs in the soil near the root. The larvae then work their way to the root. H. transversovittatus damage is done when xylem and phloem tissue are severed, and the carbohydrate reserves in the root are depleted. Plant size is greatly reduced because of these depleted energy reserves in the root”. Losing the ability to process sugars impairs PL’s ability to reproduce vegetatively. And yet another bug that might be promising, Nanophyes marmoratus. N. marmoratus is a seed eating beetle. “Young adults feed on new leaves on shoot tips, later feeding on the flowers and closed flower buds. Sixty to one hundred eggs are laid in the immature flower bud. Seed production is reduced by 60%”. Given a mature PL plant can produce well over two million seeds, the N. marmoratus might be just the back up we need for the beetles and weevils. I, like JRush, believe eradication of PL is unrealistic but with all the little people out there like JRush and me; we WILL be able to minimize the damaging effects on the environment this plant has taken. One comment, around here mechanical removal of PL opened up areas to even larger infestations due to the seed bank which remained in the soil to haunt us. We soon learned that “planting back” native species had to go hand in hand with any attempts to eradicate PL.

To date, plant breeders have developed around 25 cultivars of Purple Loosestrife and at least 10 of Wand Loosestrife (L. virgatum). Here are some of the names of these cultivars-

‘Atropupureaum’
‘Brightness’
‘Columbia Pink’
‘Dropmore Purple’
‘Dwarf Purple’
‘Firecandle’
‘Flashfire’
‘Floralie’
‘Florarose’
‘Gypsy Blood’
‘Happy’
‘Lady Sackville’
‘Morden Gleam’
‘Morden Pink’
‘Morden Rose’
‘Pink Spires’
‘Purple Spires’
‘Robert’
‘Roseum superbum’
‘Rosy Gem’
‘Rose Queen’
‘Tomentosum’
‘The Beacon’
‘The Rocket’

This is part of the problem. These plants are often sold as Lythrum ‘Firecandle’ or Loosestrife ‘Atropurpureum’. The tags on the plants are “lacking” to say the least and we get hung up on the pretty photo. The buying public is often incapable of recognizing PL for being PL thanks to all these cultivars that were introduced so even those who are aware of the issues with the species are unwittingly buying them and planting them. Here’s another problem- http://www.kesselsnursery.com/lythrum.htm These plants are often marketed as being able to be grown virtually everywhere and some nurseries really play up to the growing number of wildlife gardeners out there that PL is a “butterfly magnet”.

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

My parents paid big bucks about 10 yrs ago to have their property (almost 3 acres) professionally landscaped. They have burning bush, jap barberry, Bradford Pear, Morden Pink, ribbon grass........

Wow, your parents should buy another new house in the development going in across the street from me and then they can have all of their landscaping rolled into a package deal that they can finance for 30 years. No 'Morden Pink' in the package that the new homeowners will get to pick from but there are other equally "popular" plants available.

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

I know I have to go help my mom do spring clean up and I'm wondering how I can get the morden pink out. I can't just yank it. I waste my breath sometimes talking about invasives. I told my dad already that the barberry, burning bush and the bradford pear are all invasive. He's got about 3 or more acres of timber we're clearing out other invasives and he says if it's so invasive, why isn't it in there too?

Cut and paste any number of threads from over in Trees and print them out to hand to your Dad then call it a day as far as the Burning Bushes, Japanese Barberry, and Bradford Pears go. There's no sense getting into it with a neighbor let alone a friend or a relative. Aside from that, sometimes parents need to hear the issues from people other than their own children. No matter how old we are, we're still their kids.

If your Dad has agreed to remove the PL 'Morden Pink', I'd start by spraying it right now with glyphosate. Glyphosate is non selective so be careful of overspray and don't go after it on a windy day. I'd start hitting those plants with glyphosate every time you went over there. Let the chemicals work there way into the roots then dig it up. Most important with this plant is to cut off any flower heads that may appear. Next thing would be to pick up a few more appropriate plants to plant back because there will be PL seeds present in the soil just waiting to make your life miserable.

Best wishes to you.

Guilford, CT(Zone 7a)

I hope to monitor the effects over the next 3 years. That is the time line they tell me that will show if we have succeeded. In one area where they released the beetles, it had totally eradicated the flowers of the PL. That means they were not producing any seeds, which is a great help in the effort! They do admit that they intend on controlling PL, but not eradicating it. If they keep the numbers & spread down, then some of the native plants came return - so the environment can regain some of it's equilibrium. I cannot imagine how many plants can survive, when this tall plants must smother anything shorter than itself.
The other 2 insects that feed on PL are more susceptable to weather conditions, so they chose the beetle for the job. Perhaps they can introduce one of the others in the future.
I am appalled that nurseries are selling this stuff - it IS very pretty, but downright dangerous to the environment. It is totally reckless - & a nursery SHOULD know better, right? They are preying on the uninformed public. I cannot tell you how many times I have been asked for suggestions of a plant that will take over an area quickly for someone's "problem" area. I have talked several people OUT of choosing an invasive plant, just for the purpose of a quick fix. (hopefully!) It is well worth the wait with a carefully chosen plant.

The wholesalers know and the vast majority of retail nurseries know. They scream economic loss if they can't sell the plant and on the flip side of the coin some tax payers are demanding to know why money is being dumped to remove the plant when it's allowed to be sold. Such may have been the case in Nevada. I believe they made the plant illegal to distribute in their State but gave their nurseries a grace period to dispose of inventory. That means that their nurseries got to sell off all of their nasty plants to other States that weren't in a position to do anything about it. Same thing is going on out east right now and Burning Bushes, Calleryana Pears (too many to list but Bradford, Cleveland Select, and Redspire are all Calleryana Pears), and a host of other species are headed our way. Oh lucky us!

Check this link out to Nevada on PL-
http://agri.state.nv.us/announce/555_Notice.pdf#search='purple%20loosestrife%20invasive%20nevada'

Not much we can do other than to worry about our own properties and volunteer cleaning up the mess on public land time allowing. Think globally and act locally.

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

Lauren, my dad is a business man and thinks like one to. Using your best manly voice Who are these people? They're experts because they say so? and the best would be I don't think Cliff would sell us anything invasive. He's a Landscape Architect, he has to keep up on this stuff. I've already heard all this and more. If he doesn't see it and the nurseries in our area are all selling it, then who says it's bad? He's supposed to take my word for it? I'm working on him. I've bought him 4 different books. 3 on indigenous plants, and Noah's Garden. I just need to show him concrete proof that this stuff is bad. That I'm right. He hasn't agreed to removing the morden pink. It doesn't have any volunteers there, not saying it might not far away, but there is none on his 16 acres. I can't speak for all retailer's, but I know that the one I frequent the most, doesn't know. He sells this stuff and I swear he doesn't know. Might be a good liar, but I don't think so. I remember when I found Hall's honeysuckle there and at another nursery about 45 minutes away. I had to tell them both about the invasivesness of the plant. I have learned these people, for the most part, don't like to be told. Anything. Gosh I make him (my dad) out like an jerk. I just wish he'd listen to me.

Terry, the nurseries know. They can feign ignorance, but they know. Business owners wouldn't stay in business long if they didn't keep current. There's a nursery up my way called Castle. They were selling PL cultivars last year. I said something to them. Nothing smart mouthed or nasty. I just stated that PL and all its cultivars were highly invasive and that I thought they were illegal to sell in Illinois (they are illegal here and have been for a while and all nurseries were allegedly sent this information) not to mention it appeared in trade publications. She said everyone loved them and that I was the first person to comment negatively. I got the schpiel of how they aren't invasive in all areas and that the one I was looking at was sterile. I dropped the issue. No point to the exercise. Oddly enough, my girlfriend who is a member here with us at DG had been over at that nursery a few weeks before me and she had commented to the woman about the same plant. Interesting. She was there before me and she is considerably more aggressive than me in person yet I was told no one had ever commented before? Ten to one odds I could go back to that same nursery this spring and the woman who owns the place will be selling PL cultivars again with pretty tags and if I say something she'll tell me that I am the first to comment negatively again. Umm, maybe they all have Alzheimers?

Your Dad would be exempted from knowing. He's definately not a jerk but a by product of the system. Goes back to the Burning Bushes I was sold by my landscaper. Originally he had told me they'd really make a statement in my front yard. His comment to me when I called him on the carpet a few years later about his choice of plant material for me was, "They weren't against the law to sell yet".

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

I would bet 10 to 1 that the landscaper they used still sells and installs everything they sold my parents. My mom just left...she's watching my nephew, but she needed me to watch him for awhile, anyway, as she's leaving, I told her about the morden pink. Guess what she said? lol...First I thought her eyeballs were going to come out of their sockets...then she told me we have to get rid of it! That and that nasty russian sage. HA! Headway I say, headway....

I'm going out to the nursery outside of town on the 20th. I'm supposed to meet with the owner. I think I'll broach the subject with him. I know even he's selling all that my parents have....so that's not a good thing for my dad to see. Here's my dad again If it's so bad, why is being sold? Exactly Dad.

Terry

That is so great that your Mom knows what invasive means. Good for you that she wants those PLs out of her yard. My Mom would have understood but no way would my Dad. I removed the few garbage plants on his property that were there. I'd like to do something about the Mute Swans on his little lake but I don't have the guts to do what volunteers for the State are doing so I guess I'll have to leave those be. For my Dad, I buy plants for him and he plants them. That solves that problem.

I'd leave the owner of that nursery alone. He knows. You'll just frustrate yourself and who needs the stress. Bottom line is that they probably do still offer all the plants sold to your parents. They're making nothing but money selling these types of plants and there are no consequences for continuing to sell them. Supply and demand. They're not a 501 (c) 3 so presumably they're in it for the money. They have a right to earn a living, I just wish they'd be a little bit more responsible. Information on PL has been out there for a long time. Same deal on the other species sold to your parents.

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

I'm not sure if she does know the difference between an invasive or a garden thug. She should, what with us cleaning up the timber and all. I'm just glad she said o.k.

With the nursery owner, it won't be me being ignorant or anything to him, more like me just asking questions. Just to see what he says.

His response will probably be very predictable. That's one of the reasons why I don't bother any longer. First out the gate from him you will get the "what's invasive mean" pregnant pause while he waits for you to comment again. Then he'll sum you up and determine it's not a good idea to play dumb blonde because evidently you have some knowledge of invasive species. The body language will kick in right about now because he's going to have to pay very close attention to what you say to be in a position to field your questions properly lest he lose a possible sale. If you mention anything about spontaneous seedlings, you will get the "deer in the headlamps" look and I can guarantee he will claim to have never seen any spontaneous seedlings from any of the plants he sells. What he will actually say will be superfluous. It will be his body language that will tell all. I had one tell me it was all media hype. I truly don't waste my time with these people any longer. I am convinced I have not run into one selling these garbage plants that doesn't know. It's their business to know. They're business men and women and their future depends on them being able to predict trends. They conscientiously choose to continue offering these types of plants for sale because the demand is there and that speaks volume to me. I spend literally thousands of dollars on plants every year. I decided to let my dollar speak for me. I can see a nurseryman possibly not knowing how invasive Sawtooth Oaks or Norway Maples are but I can't see any nurseryman or landscaper in this area not knowing about plants such as English Ivy, Russian Olive, White Mulberry, Lily of the Valley, PL, Calleryana Pears, Salt Cedar, Tree of Heaven, Japanese Barberry, Mimosa, Miscanthus, or Burning Bushes. As of last year, I won't spend any of my money at a nursery offering any of those plants for sale. I also will no longer purchase plants from online venders that continue to offer those garbage plants. No point in me or my friends saying anything to them. Waste of my time and theirs. Too many nurseries out there like Great Lakes Nursery, Stone Silo, The Possibility Place, Prairie Moon, Edge of the Woods, Rolling Acres, and JFNew as well as a host of others that you can locate and view their online catalogs right here from Garden Watchdog that offer both native and non-invasive non-native plants where I can spend my money. And I do make it a point to look at their lists of plants being sold these days. The market for non-invasive plants has grown and I suspect as more States ban the sale of more invasive plants, that market will continue to grow. When their choices start hitting them in the wallet, they'll change. Until then, they'll do as they please because the demand still exists for these plants.

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

Even the little mom and pop greenhouses usually subscribe to Greenhouse Grower, Grower Talk or one of the other free subscription magazines for people in the green industry. Those magazines have articles on invasive plants, water/fertilize run-off and other environmental issues that can result, or have resulted in legislation if the green industry doesn't do something to stop it.

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

Sum me up? He's already done that. Long time ago. The guys was/is a lawyer, so it will be interesting to hear what he says. Trust me, I won't push it. Even with all the crap plants they sell, it's still a neat place to go and walk around. Of course, in your mind, you're thinking they should remove this, plant this etc. And since I can't seem to get friends to see the light, they still want me to go with them. So I do. Here's the place:

http://www.hornbakergardens.com/

Guilford, CT(Zone 7a)

I have to admit - I have Russian Sage, a Burning Bush - neither are invasive, in fact they are barely alive. Perhaps I have hybrids of the plants...
I agree that trying to open people's eyes to the dangers of these plants can be very frustrating - but there are a couple more ways to get the point across. The average homeowner is not aware of invasive plants, & would be shocked if they found out their local nursery was selling them- as terryr pointed out with your father. He represents the average homeowner, looking for the best solutions to his yard problems. Who would imagine a responsible plant expert would sell a plant that would cause trouble for that same consumer in later years? They would certainly not sell a plant that would harm the environment, right? We seek out their advice, & place out trust in them as a result. They are EXPERTS. I did find another approach... There is a local gardening expert that writes a weekly plant column in out local paper. Sometimes the area newspaper runs her columns as well. This sounds like a wonderful opportunity to get the word out to consumers - these are words of wisdom to them. People will read a Martha Stewart magazine & search for the exact variety of a plant, just because it was listed in the magazine.The writer could do an informative column, listing invasive plants specifically. If they acknowledge that nurseries sell these invasive plants, it should put them on the spot. (I kind of like that part!) Act locally - I think I will write a letter or two. Education is the key!

Valid point made by Calalily,

Quoting:
Even the little mom and pop greenhouses usually subscribe to Greenhouse Grower, Grower Talk or one of the other free subscription magazines for people in the green industry. Those magazines have articles on invasive plants, water/fertilize run-off and other environmental issues that can result, or have resulted in legislation if the green industry doesn't do something to stop it.
You just summed up why the Green Industry is so powerful. They are organized and seemingly have the support of everyone from the mega wholesalers on down to the little Mom and Pop greenhouses.

Terryr- Hmmm, the proprietor is or was a practicing lawyer? Ha ha ha! And you think he doesn't know? I looked at his website and the first place I visited was "Grasses". Normally I would have clicked on aquatic plants next but why bother. No need to go any farther after reading his list of grasses. In my humble opinion, a guy like this is part of the problem not the solution. He's in it for the money honey and if I were you, I'd go spend my money elsewhere. Did I mention that lawyers frequently take acting classes to be in a better position to defend clients? Let your money do your talking with this guy. I can guarantee he will be one of those people who will have an answer for everything.

Quoting:
Who would imagine a responsible plant expert would sell a plant that would cause trouble for that same consumer in later years? They would certainly not sell a plant that would harm the environment, right? We seek out their advice, & place out trust in them as a result. They are EXPERTS.
Oh yes they would if there's a buck to be made. And there's a big buck to be made in my humble opinion. Think about all the Bradford Pears and Burning Bushes. Out east some States have very recently banned them. In the very near future, I suspect these plants will be banned in Illinois. Look at the opportunities that await those who play their cards right. There will be newspaper articles focusing on the plants that were banned and having them planted in one's yard will be viewed as a big environmental "no no". I can see it now, "we (Green Industry) are so sorry, we had no idea these plants were so invasive and harmful to the environment... if we had only known we would have never promoted and sold them. If you (homeowner) are environmentally conscious and dig them out... we'll sell you these nice replacements that aren't listed as invasive anywhere and don't harm the environment".

Valid point JRush,
Quoting:
People will read a Martha Stewart magazine & search for the exact variety of a plant, just because it was listed in the magazine.
I might also say the same for a particular radio show host I have heard of lately who has also authored a few gardening books because there are people out there who have purchased plants based on his comments. Unfortunately, some people assume their endorsement of specific plants is without bias because they don't take the time to do their homework or see no need to do their homework because if gardening gurus say a plant is ok... it must be ok. Radio broadcasts as well as magazines are made possible in part by advertisers. If advertisers are selling these types of plants, one's ability to be objective is severely impaired. I guess the best example of this that I can think of is that Geraldo Rivera. He starts out his career affiliated with one party and is a force with which to contend then lands a job at FOX News and virtually over night he metamorphosed to the opposing party. Needless to say, if there is money to be made by "changing" camps”, there are those who will do so. Until then, the internet is an invaluable tool for research and best to make your own decisions on what plants to buy as opposed to relying upon representations of others who may not exactly have your best interests at heart.

Bureau County, IL(Zone 5a)

From what I can gather, he still is a lawyer, but he doesn't practice. And I don't spend my money there anymore. I haven't given him any of my hard earned cash since we moved back. I was trying to get the hop hornbeam from him so that I could take advantage of the city's tree program and they pay up to 50% of the tree. Not only do none of his suppliers carry them, but all his tree suppliers are in Oregon. The state, not Oregon IL.

I don't know that russian sage falls into the invasive category. It's a garden thug if it likes your soil.

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