Working Straw into Veggie Garden. Tiller?

Hello, New to gardening and to this site. First time starting a topic.

I planted bulbs all around my house last fall (in MN, zone4) and covered much of it with straw bales that we had bought as halloween decorations. I just pulled up my straw today (3/26) and I have tons of bulbs coming up. Super.

Question: I want to use the straw that I pulled up as an 'amendment' in my vegetable garden to loosen up the clay soil that I have (clay so tight, my radishes can't spread it apart..seemingly). Will this work?

Second question: If the above plan will work, then I need to buy a rear tine tiller. Was wondering if anyone could recommend one store over another in minnesota (lowes, menards, fleetfarm, homedepot, sears?) and what the minimum horsepower required would be for the task of grinding up straw in a clay garden. (I think 4hp is too small, but didn't know if going from 5 to 6 or 6.5 or 7 was worth the extra money)

My clay isn't so bad(stuff grows), it just stays wet and seems to be 'mud' unless it doesn't rain for 7+ days in a row. Hoping that adding the straw will improve drainage and loosen it up a bit.

Ground still frozen, so I have time to buy the tiller and time to take my straw out and throw it away if people tell me it's not a good idea.

Don't know anything in particular about the straw...
Thanks.

I can only tell you that the one time my husband tilled straw into a garden, he used the kind you walk behind and it was very difficult. The straw wrapped itself around parts of the tiller and he had to stop often and unwrap it. Maybe the kind of tiller you plan to use would not have this problem.

Don't throw the straw away in any event. Compost it.

Never throw straw away. If you don't compost it, save it to use as mulch. If you need to get it worked into the soil to build up the organic content, perhaps spread it out along the garden and run over it with a lawn mower to shred it before tilling. Hay and straw do like to wrap around the tines, especialy if damp.

Wayne

jrolfs, not a good idea to till under that straw, especially this time of year and in your veggie garden. What will happen is that as it decomposes it will heat up and in the process will steal nitrogen from your soil as well as kill the tender roots of anything you might have growing/germinating in there. (If you ever want to till in raw material it's best to do it in an area you are not going to plant in for a while or do it in the Fall/Winter and let it overwinter there.)

Also, keep in mind, if you have extreme clay that the addition of adding straw will bind it all together and when the soil dries you'll have brick soil. (Remember how the Egyptians and Amer-Indians built?...they mixed clay and straw together to create bricks/blocks.)

If your straw was "cut thin" (in small lengths) it might work well in your soil but you'd have to add a N source along with it (and even then refrain from planting in it for a few weeks while the straw cooks down).

As for a tiller, it's not so much where you buy it from but what type you prefer. Most tillers these days are made by MTD, even though they may have a "company name" on them (Troybilt, for example). You may want to give us a little more info on the size of your garden in order for us to recommend what size you might need.

And yes, I whole-heartedly agree with the others, don't throw your straw away. Save it and use it for mulch later in the season so it not only helps conserve water but also helps keep the weeds down. If you mulch with it that will keep the sun from directly contacting your soil, thus baking it, too!

Shoe.



{edited to change the word "steak" to "STEAL" (nitrogen from the soil). Ya see what is on MY mind! Food!}


This message was edited Mar 26, 2006 11:40 PM

jrolfs,

Good advice from Shoe, I'd use that straw for mulch, it'll decompose over time and slowly improve that clay soil.

Don't know what size tiller you need but I'd recommend Lowe's if you decide to go with a Troybilt. I just bought a new one from them (yup, the Big Red, ☺) and it was nearly a $100 cheaper than I could buy it direct from the factory! Plus they have their own excellent extended warrantee, which covers everything including the motor.

Good deal, B.Red! And another good thing is I think Lowe's still has a 30 money-back guarantee (even if you "just plain don't like it" you can bring it back).

Congrats, Big Red,...I've had a Troybilt Horse since before my Daughter was born (she just turned 12 in January) and wouldn't be w/out.

Thanks for all of the information.
Garden is 16X22, but it's the consistency of the soil I'm concerned with. Wondered if people had had bad luck with clay burning out lower horsepower motors...based on the responses, I'll guess that it doesn't happen often, you probably just need to be smart with how hard/quickly you try to go through the soil.

I'll pull up the straw and try to compost some of it (living in these neighborhoods, one cannot always just throw up a box and start to compost. Even some of the round plastic drums that you can buy could draw the ire of some of the neighbors). This fall, I'm going to rake all of my leaves into the garden and till them under and continue to do that each fall.

As for this spring, I'll try to work in some manure and some peat moss, but I'll probably have to deal with the 'clay/mud' once again. I should have gotten on this last fall, but things came up....

Again, thanks for the help.

Thanks Shoe! My Mom had a "Horse" for years and I've always wanted one, finally got around to getting one although I don't think mine is of the quality her's is (or your's). They don't make them like they used to!

jrolfs, my soil has a lot of clay in it also, but after setting (and packing down) all winter, the Troybilt churns through it with ease. You'd love it!

i use straw in my garden soil, it was actually by mistake, i had made my first compost area out of 4 straw bails and used that like a big square, after 15 months of weather , it crumbled LOL what was i thinking? ( don't tell Soferdig, he thinks i know what i m doing hahaha) so it was 5o% decomposed already and i added it to my soil and tilled it down in the fall last yr. Don't know if you want to wait that long? LOL,but it is working. Lots of compost too :)
Shoe would you agree maybe she should add sand? to help .
sue

Howdy Sue...with our mild winter this year (at least here in NC) I bet your straw may have decomposted pretty good since Fall. And if so, I imagine your soil texture is looking good, eh?

As for sand in jrolf's garden, it'll depend on the type of sand and quantity. Many sands, especially fine sands/playground sand, will only turn clay soil into concrete. Builders sand is much more coarse and will work if the quantity tilled in is judicial, oftentimes as much as 60-80 percent sand vs clay.

There is a great product called "Permatill" that is really good at breaking up clay soil. It offers excellent drainage, repells moles/voles and only needs to be apllied once. However, it is expensive!! Depending on how bad off your clay soil is a 40 pound bag will only amend 5-8 sq feet! (I'm sure you could stretch it further. As for me, if I had terribly bad clay and didn't want to amend it the way I already do (green manure crops, cover crops, leaves, etc) I'd go for a mix of Permatill and a small amount of pea gravel.

OK sue I'm back and I know you don't know what your doing cause your from Ohio. God gave you excellent soil so give me your composter and I can start to improve Montana.
I'm with Shoe Gravel rocks anything to break up clay. Though the best is long term fibrous material. Sticks, wood, pine needles, compost, manure, any of these things would get clay and make it drain and then worms will appear out of nowhere to bring those things into the soil. Clay is often quite available minerals. White clay well use it for the bottom of a lake but other clays if elevated above water line will work well anywhere.