planting under maple trees

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to plant under two large maple trees in zone 4. They shade my whole front yard. I made the mistake of digging up all the grass around them and laying down paths but what to plant between the paths? I have violets and I put a lot of pot plants, like impatiens under them. I have some epimedium that seem to do pretty well, but I would like to have a dense variety of plants under them. Any ideas?

from what I've heard, if you have Norway maples it could prove very difficult to get any kind of dense variety. There might be some species of aster that will do well in the dry shade that maples can create. good luck.

Synergy, for dry shade in zones 3 and 4, William H. Frederick, Jr. in his book, The Exuberant Garden lists the following plants:

Acanthopanax sieboldianus
Geranium maccrorhizum (yup, does well for us, too - leaves persist after frost, and are nicely aromatic)
Microbiota decussata
Viburnum acerifolium (maple-leaved viburnum - very pretty fall leaf color, not vigorous in dry shade; perhaps best planted in a low "grove" of 5 plants)

Other plants he lists for shade in zones 3 and 4, but not found in his lists for dry conditions in those zones are:

Cimifuga racemosa (Like the dicentra spectabilis described below, lingers shabbily after bloom in our garden for a while but returns in following spring)
Dennstaedtia punctilobula (hay-scented fern)
Dicentra spectabilis (This one has grown for us in super-dry shade of big pawlonia tree very well. It dies back in summer under those conditions but always returns in following spring and blooms.)
Hosta [has naturalized for us in dry shade under saucer magnolia and above stone wall with eranthus hyemalis (winter aconite - March flowers.) Ours came mislabeled; we suspect it may be H. hyacinthoides. Over time, it may dwindle out as shade increases in combination with the dryness.
Osmunda cinnamomea
Osmunda claytoniana
Osmunda regalis
(Our deciduous fern among the maple roots appeared out of nowhere as a volunteer seedling, and we don't know what kind it is. This is just to say that there is a deciduous fern that will grow under a maple.)
Polystichum acrostichoides (Christmas fern) This one does okay under our maple but does not look too thrilled to be there. It grows through periwinkle, which may contribute to the water-holding ability of the community of roots of this fern and vinca). Snowdrops have naturalized here in a beautiful drift of white bells in February and March.

Off hand, I don't know whether the following plants that we grow in dry shade are hardy to zone 4, but it might be worth while to check them out:

There are some eastern woodland wildflowers that bloom among emerging ferns and then die back as ferns mature that have done okay in our dry shade: bleeding heart, blood root, spring beauty, Mertensia virginica (Virginia bluebells). Unfortunately, vinca has crowded most of them out - bleeding heart (dicentra spectabilis) persists. Bloodroot has naturalized under nearby hosta.

Another eastern woodlander doing well through the vinca, but with more persistent foliage is a ginger (Asarum canadense).

Variegated Solomon's Seal is also very shade and drought tolerant around here, but not often seen - deer?.

Foxgloves have done surprisingly well under some white pines, along with the very invasive Siberian forgetmenot (these two biennials get very shabby after bloom, but I let them self-sow, and those seedlings are evergreen and attractive until the next end of bloom in their cycles).

Salvia forskaohlii has been a tough perennial in dry shade, too.

Periwinkle makes an attractive, evergreen carpet under some of our white pines - but keep in mind it's very invasive (there are some very beautiful variegated forms). Under a maple, pine, magnolia, etc., it will crowd out most plants mentioned earlier; although, with more sun and moisture, many plants will naturalize among periwinkle. Spanish squill have naturalized among periwinkle under an old apple tree near some white pines - never watered, same with snow drops (Galanthus nivalis) among periwinkle among roots of maples.

For annuals in a real powder-dry, shady spot, strategically placed pots that you water (large ones, and also incorporate some of those hydrating water crystals into your soil mix) can add a lot:

impatiens;

torenia (the annual ones from seed have done badly for me, but the ones that cascade sold by garden centers in spring tolerate a lot of shade and stay attractive all season (I underplanted mine with parsley));

coleus (does DG still have that coleus forum - wonderful spot);

begonias of the fibrous root or angel wing varieties have done well here under these conditions;

another surprise for dry shade for us has been Plectranthus argentatus (there are many species of this genus) which are related to coleus.

If part of the area you're planting is far enough away to get a little more light, it would be nice to extend your planting with Japanese anemones, astilbe,columbines, kalimeris (Mongolian aster) and thalictrum (this one sulks if not watered, which I let it do).

Under an old maple, I would keep plantings very simple; by that, I mean long, lazy drifts of ferns and bold plantings of hosta...no itty bitty stuff, unless you make a rivulet of something like tiarella leading outward from the taller stuff.

Also, I have to qualify the success of the plants we grow in dry shade by saying that when I was younger, I spent many years after work and on weekends double-trenching our beds with peat, compost, rotted leaves, etc. which are never walked upon. The bed under the monster maple was made by dumping excavations for two small ponds beneath. Don't do that and cover up too much of a maple's roots, or you can smother the maple's surface roots and kill it.

Perhaps, if you plant under your maple, consider digging in some of those granules that expand many times their volume with water into the soil beneath each plant - the package should tell you what amount to use, etc.

Would you consider "paving" under the tree with something permeable to water like gravel under flag stones with a water-permeable weed barrier of landscape cloth beneath the whole business? Or just mulch the area? And then go for a bench or two, a few large pots of shade tolerant plants, and perhaps some kind of partial privacy screen - the Japanese have a word for this I can't recall right now - I'm not talking about turning the front garden into a fortress, here.

Hope these lessons from trying to outsmart our own dry shady conditions help.

karen

I have a silver maple - dappled shade - and I have Blackberry Lily at the base of it. (Belamcanda) You may have a tree with dense roots that will invade everything. Sunken potted plants that you would water may be the way to go. Does your maple also have large roots that push up out of the ground? Dry shade is a tough one. Maybe geraniums like Johnsons Blue, or Husker Red penstemon.

synergy you may want to try aesculus parviflora...aka bottlebrush buckeye. so under used and so wonderful for shady gardens. it does grow rather large.... however it also has beautiful white flowers for some nice brightness in any shade garden. great in my sub zone 4 and i'm sure also fine for you.

I have dry shade under my Crimson Norway maple, we have a low wooden deck at the base of it, and ferns grow well here between the upper and lower decks. Further out around the low deck, I can't grow grass, so have started to look at dry shade plants. bluespiral, you said a mouthful! We have luck here with hostas, lamium, daffodils, and vinca. How big does bottlebrush buckeye get? Do pulmonarias do well in dry shade? I like those. Have tried some geraniums, nothing impressed me. I am considering caladiums for color, there is space for planting between the trunk and the low deck, I can't add more dirt, maybe a pebble rock mulch? I would like to try a double layer of them beneath some large hostas in the side garden, so they would tie in to that space. Old reliable impatiens like the clay we have, but appreciate water some mornings.They make a colorful edger.

Thanks for all the advice. My original intent was to recreate a forest floor. Impetuous ignorance, once again! I didn't do enough thinking or research before this project. I like the bottle brush idea, Tobee43. How big does it get, I would like to create some height there as well. yes, billyporter, I do have dense roots that invade everything. I did a lasagna-garden type mulching in part of the area and the fine roots have totally filled it in about 2 years. I do have false solomon's seal at the edge that seems to do well and suprisingly enough jack-in-the-pulpit does relatively well. Bluespiral, I am going to spend a delightful afternoon digesting all you have said. I think a pebble mulch might be a good idea, Prairie Girl, at the base of the tree and plantings around it. Thanks everyone for all the good ideas.

synergy...they can reach up to 10 feet tall and 10 feet wide. however, they can be pruned to fit your needs. the "white" varity is best for shaded areas. see what michael dirr's has to say about them! they really are quite a sight when in bloom!

Synergy, I have maples too--and did go ahead and plant under them--where the larger roots allowed. I will try an additional layer of soil/peat/mulch this year, but over time expect I will move my favorites out of there--leaving more mulched space behind.

The digitalis lutea and epimedium fare well--they may stay--but the ferns have to go and maybe the dicentra--it lives, but has not increased. I too will look into the bottlebrush buckeye--sounds interesting and I'm not familiar with it.

Aesculus parviflora, the bottlebrush buckeye, is an incredibly rewarding summer flowering shrub for zones 4-8. I, of course, am spoiled down here in KY whilst you shiver up there in WI, BUT...I have Wisconsin roots so I don't feel too bad. Synergy, shout a hello out to my "92 years young" Aunt Vi who lives over on Nicholas Street, not far from the park.

Back to plants. Bottlebrush buckeye is recommended for tolerating shade, and it does. One shouldn't be afraid to use it in full sun though, because that is where it shines. As tobee43 mentions, it can become a rather large shrub if you never touch it, but you can manage the plant at a variety of heights by simply removing the tallest stems occasionally (though that will be painful after you've gotten used to its stellar look and performance), as it will send up more stems with no encouragement. It will want to stretch, depending on depth of shade, whereas it will be a much more dense compact (and more floriferous) shrub in fuller sun.

tobee43 also says the "white" variety is best for shade. If you know of any other color of bottlebrush buckeye, you are in line for a lot of money. And you are right: Mike Dirr likes the plant so much he put it on the cover of his Manual's 4th Edition (the green one).

Song Sparrow Farm and Nursery sells bottlebrush buckeye, and their wholesale operation grows them in the field in southern WI, so I think they've got a good shot with most of you posting here.

OK, since you insist, here's how Aesculus parviflora does down here in hot humid central KY. These were planted in 1991, and get by pretty well now without much help.

Shazam!

viburnium....which i just can't wait until mine get here, have michael dodge, winterthur, henneke and nudum coming this season......! i meant...the white aesculus as opposed to the red which is more tree like scrub although somewhat shade tolerate as well. many times i see the catalogs just list acescules down the line without great detail...ie: Aesulus flava (A. octandra), Aesculus parviflora, Aesculus parifora var. serotioma "Rogers' which can get confusing to some.

which brings me to your name.....is that because you love viburnum??? because if you do i have a question or two for you???

Tobee, that bottlebrush buckeye sounds like quite a winner!

PrairieGirl, pulmonaria has seemed to prefer more moisture than it's gotten here. Caladiums are so pretty, but haven't tried them - suspect they need extra water, too.

Synergy and everyone, planting in dry shade is an issue dear to my heart - thanks for starting this thread and all the input. Will keep watching to see how things go, so hope you will post results of what you try as summer progresses.

Vibirnum - That is magnificent!.

well the great thing about the buckeyes is you don't have to plant them every year! and still you get color and some nice fullness under the trees. also...impatients....i'm looking for a pic of my shade gardens....

found one...you can't see all the trees in front of the impatients but they are there. that area is heavy shade and also only morning sun.

Woo, Tobee and Viburnum your pics make me feel inadequate. I have a long way to go.

I read that Buckeyes sucker, otherwise, I would love to have one. I think they're really neat.

PrarieGirl, I like your suggestions too. I would fill in around my maple, except it's horozontal branches are the perfect place for the grandbaby swing.

Awww Billy, that's why mine isn't done yet. My son pulled out all the ajuga I planted there, he was "helping" me with the garden. LOL

Awww, cute! Don't forget to update the babybook! I also have another grandchild on the way. Yaaayyy1

I too will throw in a vote for the Bottlebrush.
Our neighbor's shrubs are under our huge Maple and doing great.
Also try Pulmonaria, Hellebores and for a wild change of past.
A climbing Musk Rose.
We have Paul's Himalayan (sp?) growing 30' up into ours.
Gorgeous pink when in bloom and will fill the neighborhood w/ scent.

Ric

Hellebores are great for dry shade. Just a comment about astilbes and
Japanese anenomes. The grow in the dark here and can take over in no time if given adequate water.

Ric, I love Pauls Himalayan! Him don't lay much tho do he.
Doss, for some reason, and maybe it's because they're under walnut trees, none of the hardy J. anemones made it thru the winter. Honerine Jobert lived and bloomed one year and never came back.

LOL! Him don't usually Billy.

Although we will be putting much of the 'Pauls' back up in the Maple this weekend.
50 MPH winds seem to have dislodged parts of it.
First time in 5 years of growing it.
It is one of the thorniest roses ot there.
Usually that's enough to keep it in the tree.

It's one plant I wish were grown more.
A perfect low light Rose.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/78561/


Here's our Hellebores under the same Maple.

Ric

I fell in love with Pauls the first picture I ever saw of it. I have also been drawn to hellebores this year. Your's are my favorite color. My Mom had a rose that was supposed to be Seven Sisters. She was nasty with the thorns! I always got hooked when I weeded for her. I bought rose gloves just for that rose. Now that Mom is gone, Dad tore it out and the gloves are used to play with my cats. I think some roses almost have a poison in the thorns. My pokes always swelled and hurt for a couple of days.
Sally