Taking cuttings from Shrubs

I took some cuttings from a Fothergilla Gardenii, and some cuttings from some kind of small Viburnum that has heavily scented flowers. Neither shrub is in bloom here, nor are there any leaves yet.

I gave the cuttings to my friend Equil, and she put them in rooting gel and stuck the cuttings/gel in a south facing window.

Any idea how quickly cuttings root? Should they be in bright sun? Any other advice? Thanks!

I've never tried cuttings in that way. I have started many cuttings, from Abelias, Wiegelas, Hydrangeas, Juniper, and others, but I have an open cold frame and I stick them into the soil in it, and usually use green cuttings. I never use rooting hormones. I have no idea how long they took to root. I've always left them there for at least a year.
I hope you get a more satisfactory answer.

This is the product I used-
http://www.gel2root.com/

Here are the F. gardenii cuttings Dode picked up for me. They haven't rooted yet.

Here are the Viburnum cuttings she picked up for me. I haven't a clue which Viburnum they are.

And here are the F. major cuttings she brought me-

I don't know if they'll root, but I suspect they are way too large.

Guy S.

I think Guy has it right. Those viburnums are suspects in the witness protection program, only shown in silhouette so that their identities are shielded from those who would expose them.

Recommendations from Mrs. VV (resident propagator):

For viburnums, semihardwood cuttings taken in summer, dipped in DipNGrow at 1:10 dilution and stuck in sand beds under intermittent mist, have yielded high rooting percentages across a wide range of species.

We haven't tried Fothergilla (yet), but literature from Dirr suggests that:

Certainly this method has certain advantages over a mist bench, if it works...it is simple, it can be done indoors, and it doesn't involve the up front costs of other methods. I will be very interested to see the results. Equil, what is the cost of those gel containers?

I can confirm VVs method for viburnums, that is roughly what I have used, except that I use 1000ppm IBA and peat/perlite under the mist. I have used this method with excellent results for Callicarpa, Weigela, Abelia, Hydrangea, Viburnums, and others.

SB

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

Do you mean the advertising on the packaging was intended to lure lazy people like me looking for a quick easy fix? But look at the advertising on that packaging! Doesn't it just scream out to you to buy it to try it? Tell me it ain't so that I've been duped by marketing!

Alrightie now- cost of the gel containers are $8.99 for a 6 pack. Now let's not go down that road. Me and Dode were playing. I originally purchased the product to use for Nepenthes cuttings. It's doing just fine for those and the takes were at 100%.

I don't have a mist bench. Do I need one?

I've rooted Hydrangea, Viburnum, and Weigela in regular old rinsed sand in yogurt cups in the same windows. I dipped them in Rootone. They did fine and I probably got about 1 out of 2 to root. I also tried to root oak and hickory cuttings. Never got even one of those to take. Yes, I am aware it is said that one can't root oak and hickory cuttings but I happen to be one of those people who on occassion likes to try anyway. Why I did that is beyond me because they germinate from seed so easily.

For what it's worth, I've had the best success with cuttings using florists foam. Take a hunk of that and cut it down to a manageable size and place it in a water tray, dip your cuttings in a rooting hormone, push them down into the foam, and call it a day.

Sorry about the silhouette V V. Dode picked those up from her work and that's about all I can do.

Backing up to the Viburnum cuttings. Dode and I sort of had different thoughts on those. I was thinking it would be best to make two cuttings out of each existing cutting she took by nipping the top off the Y and she felt they'd probably be ok as they were. Think I should knock those sling shot looking cuttings down to 2 smaller cuttings?

Have you seen anyone publish success stories about rooting hardwood Viburnum cuttings?

Stay on top of this Equil, and let me know if this stuff works. I love "short cuts" cause spring and summer kind of squish together in the north country. By the time anything roots this far north your stuff is already bearing fruit.

Hi equilibrium,

You might try a mix of 4parts perlite to 1part Peat Moss for rooting most hardwood cuttings. This is a very sterile and well-liked mix for a variety of hardwoods.

Then as an all purpose mix I make by the trash can full for an all-purpose "do it all" is:

1.5 parts Peat Moss
1 part vermiculite
1 part perlite
2 parts sand - The sand needs to be microwaved for about 3 minutes per 'large bowl that isn't too large for your microwave.'

You can later add fertilizer to this mix when you pot up your cuttings/seedlings/any gardening "potting" application.

The first mix is very good and intended for cuttings.

You ask about misting. Get yourself a spray bottle and mist your cuttings 4-5 times a day.

As to humidity: Keep the humidity up around the cuttings at all times and controlling fungus as necessary.

About misting - I forgot to mention that you want well misted cuttings not holding any water droplets, so use a fine mist.

Cuttings need light!!!

You'd have much, much better success if you used a set of (3) fluorescent ballasts (6 bulbs/ 2 per ballast) and if you had a way to cover your cuttings (to increase the humidity) at the very minimum, during night.

Also yes, like the others have said... cuttings are usually 4"-6" in length and not much longer.

As VV says: Dip and Grow - that's a good one. So is Hormex #8.

I think with any hardwood deciduous cutting, I would keep it completely surrounded/tented/covered for the first month if I wasn't using a greenhouse. Then, at the minimum I'd cover/tent them during the night for the remainder of their time before the suvivors are potted up.

Also, if you really 'get into this', you can purchase flats that have sides 4" or so tall. I found a source and got like 40 of these "pretty rigid" flats for 35-40 bucks. I line them with newspaper and add the rooting media. (Perfect depth to stick your cuttings)

Hope this all helps you,

Dax

EQ, you'll want to pinch off the flower buds in your fothergilla and elder cuttings. Good luck!

Good point Leftwood! I kind of missed that (very important part)!!...

I wish you luck too.

Dax

Too late on your hardwood cuttings medium Dax but I can try that next time. I don't want to move them out of the medium they are in right now.

I have a spray bottle over there for my Neps that are in hanging baskets so it would be no problem to mist the cuttings several times a day.

I've never used Dip and Grow or Hormex #8. Please give me online sources for those.

Conifers, can you post a photo of your flats with the 4" tall sides please?

Look closely at the photos of the Viburnums, I already pinched off the flower buds ;) I was a good girl and that was the first thing I did. I can see from the photo that I missed pinching off one of the buds on a gardenii so I'll go back and nip that poste haste. I missed that until I looked at the photo again and sure enough, big bud second from the left. Good catch Rick and also too... I did not nip off the buds on the sambucus. I forgot to do it so another good catch. I'm slipping.

What fertilizer would I want to add to these if any root and develop to the stage that I could repot them?

That particular area has lots of great light. It is actually a corner set of windows with one facing east and one facing south. Perfect for cuttings and there is nice humidity from the sinks which I have been leaving filled with water during the day.

Tomorrow morning when I have better light, I'll take those Viburnum cuttings down to two each. There's plenty of space to do so.

Thanks guys!

You're funny Equil. I do think you're a good girl...

I wish ya luck!

Take care,

Dax

Hey Equil, I wasn't suggesting that you spent too much $ on the gel containers! Quite the opposite. My point was that for someone rooting just a dozen cuttings, yours might be a very economical way to do it if it works.

Keep us posted ;-)
SB

And just think -- there might still be a few square inches somewhere in Carl's house that you haven't yet usurped with your plant paraphernalia!!!

Guy S.

Well Guy- come to think of it...

We all know what I did to the exercise room (Neps, Drosera, & Pinguicula) and our master bathroom (Orchids) but I am now in the process of converting the cove lighting underneath all of the upper cabinets in that summer kitchen/mud room to T5s. All the lighting was hardwired so it will be easy. My nice big roll of 2mil Mylar came in so I will be able to cover up the ceramic back splash tile quite well with that. I must have a nice open air space to germinate my Pinguicula seed. Remember that nice bar room we have complete with upper and lower cabinets and that nice hardwired cove lighting under the upper cabinets in there too... I call that expansion potential. We don't drink anyway so it is a wasted room for all practical purposes.

The garage... what can I say about the garage other than that I have hundreds of plants out there and gardening supplies as well as more gardening supplies. Neither one of us have been able to park a vehicle in there for about a year so I'm thinking I'm on my way to getting a nice greenhouse one of these days.

And, I want a cloning machine. Another DG member suggested that I remove his reclining chair and set up a clone machine there. As you know, we don't have his reclining chair any longer because we now have that L shaped sectional thing he wanted sooooo, I've been sort of eye balling the area where he has his dresser. What a great wife I am! Just think of all the calories he would burn off running all the way down to the basement every morning to get clean underwear and socks if I relocated his dresser down there to make room for the clone machine. Just kidding, so don't every one think I'd actually set up the clone machine where his dresser now stands.

The metal halides are now up in the basement as I have a hundred trays of seed ready to come out of the frig and his workbench just happens to be the perfect height off the ground to be able to keep the cats out of my germination trays. Imagine that. He did ask how long until I could move those trays outside but other than that, he hasn't questioned anything but then again... he hasn't seen the size of the clone machine I want. There's always the dining room for that. Another wasted room as far as I'm concerned that could be put to better use.

Hey stressbaby- if you really think about it, the price for those little gel cups is really sort of high considering the odds of any of those hardwood cuttings actually taking root is very low. If any of those cuttings actually do root, then they might be worth it. I really did purchase them for Nep cuttings though and then I got to thinking I might try to root some pine cuttings in a few just for yucks and he haws and then I bought more specifically to be able to try to root the hardwood cuttings from Dode.

So, how many of you men out there will read this and say a silent prayer that your wives aren't into "experiments"?

See Guy, you let the "she" cat out of the bag when you actually called it Carl's house. It is a small step from the man's dresser in the basement to no dresser at all ( trade in possibly for a REALLY big cloning machine ). Let him select the days wear from right out of the dryer, as he folds the rest of the laundry. I will admit that this is the first garage I ever put a vehicle in, and at that, only in the winter. Ken

Hi Equilibrium

Here'a a few photos of those flats:

I called OBC Northwest (That's where I bought the Hormex #8 - 1 pound for like 30 bucks). They say it comes in a can, well mine came in a piece of "plastic" held with a rubberband (not even a real "bag")...but a great price. (Mike/Greenthumb turned me onto this stuff:)

So OBC since they're based in Washington State, hooked me up with an Ohio distributor and that's how and where I bought the flats. The flats measure 17 long x 13 wide by 3 1/4" tall. They are self-draining...(Bottom is comprised of holes).

Here's OBC's link and here's the photos:
http://www.obcnw.com/index.php

Dax

Maybe a better view?

I imagine over the years that rooting hormones have improved. I tried them years ago with little success, so went back to modified soil and/or potting soil sans hormone. It works for me! I've gardened for about 50 years, with many trials, successes, and errors.
Too bad everything we want to propagate doesn't root as readily as forsythia! I cut branches off my overgrown plants and walk around the place (after a wet spell) and poke the cuttings in the ground where ever I want it to grow. Most of them 'take' if wet weather continues.
I have to admit, I am quite unconventional with many of my efforts at plant growing, both indoors and out.

Unconventional can be very good, espically when it works.

Hey Ken, I can come up and rearrange your house for you. I'm real good at that.

Thanks for the photos conifers. I'm actually doing something similar but with Sterilite and Rubbermaid storage containers. They are clear which is not great for outside as algae will build up real fast so I need the dark/opaque for out there. The seedling heat mat you use is the same brand I use but I buy them in the 4' lengths.

Here's a site I found for rooting hormones-
http://store.yahoo.com/btgrowersupply/rootinghormone.html

Per chance is their Hormex #3 comparable to the Hormex #8 that you all use? If not, what are the differences please?

Hi Equlibrium,

Dip and Grow seems to be the most popular with most people that I've spoken to at least. I know a guy in Ohio who uses it for his mostly Thuja cultivars nursery.

OBC Northwest sells Hormex 1, 3, and 8 and gives a description of each. Here's that link:
http://www.obcnw.com/b2b/shop.php?prod_action=showdetail&prod_id=1841

Also Hormex makes a multitude of other strengths. Like #'s 1 - 12 or something like that. #8 is a good one.

I looked at your link... I'd go with Dip and Grow or Hormex... your call!

Dax

Higher concentrations appear to be the difference. Appears Hormex #8 or the Dip and Grow are the best bets.

Yep. If you're trying to root more difficult to root things as far as Hormex products are concerned like Chamaecyparis nootkatensis or Chamaecyparis pisifera, I'd go one step or two steps up in strength. I stumbled across a homepage for Hormex products at one time and read them all and the couple steps up are slightly stronger as labled for slightly more difficult to root woody cuttings.

Dip and Grow seems to do the job very well too.

So yep..

Dax

I told Eq I had access to Fothergilla cuttings, from my own shrub(gardenii), and shrubs where I work at a university with conflicted landscaping(native? Japanese? English Cottage? Crapola? All of those at once!). I was told by a big authority on shrubs to take my fothergilla cuttings in early spring. It's early spring, so I took cuttings. Eq requested the viburnum cuttings, so I took them. They're about 3 inches tall by 4 inches wide. Like Equil said, we're just playing. Tomorrow, I'm taking beautyberry cuttings. Any advice on those?

Dirr says for Callicarpa japonica that they are very easy and that all species of Callicarpa are equally as easy. He says softwood cuttings so that would be after Spring growth and to root them in moist sand with rooting in 7-14 days under mist.

I'd also suspect you get some of the Viburnums to root as well...
That gel medium I didn't notice till sometime after my intial comments. I guess I not only didn't notice the buds on the Fothergilla, but that I also missed the gel thinking you guys had ductaped the top of a ziploc container and filled it with water and a combination of that rooting hormone. Well you guys are probably eons ahead of me as that's some pretty fancy stuff you two have going.

Tissue culture, Scientific Ordering, 'recycling', way past my league!

You guys are bigtime!

Dax

Dax keep translating for those of us who are just looking. This is a good site to watch. Thank you for your educating to us who are simple. We someday could get good enough to create.

Big time? I don't think so. Those kits were off an endcap at Menards!

The way I figure it is that I start the Beautyberry the same way I started the others and we cross our fingers and toes and see what happens.

Worse case scenario is that Dode and me come back and try again taking new growth cuttings of the Viburnum unknownacus, both Fothergilla, and the Beautyberry again in June. We can dip them all in Hormex #8. I could start half in the gel cups and half in yogurt cups using Dax's mix-

Just a little update that nothing is rooting ;(

I wonder if humidity around the upper part of the cutting would help???

You could bag a couple and not bag a couple and see how that affects anything.

Dax

Pretty much everything I read about this situation indicated I would fail. I've been spritzing them with water several times a day. I'll try a few little plastic baggies over some of them just for the heck of it. Thanks for recommending it. Can't hurt at all and maybe it will help.

The Pinguicula vulgaris and the Cypripedium reginae haven't done anything either but that's to be expected this early in the game. The cultures still look good on those.

The Cyp culture I gave to you aren't tissue culture, they're seeds in agar. They may also not be viable anymore, I got them when we did that CP rescue.

Hey Dode, allegedly any asymbiotic germination of orchids is deemed tissue culture. So seeds in agar or any sterile medium would be tissue culture. Why I don't know. I know it's normally plant parts such as a node, meristem, or stem tip but it can also be seed or an embryo. The seed I am playing with for you is from Fred and don't worry, I still have your seed in the baby food jar. None of the seed is doing anything but it's too soon.