Any grafters around/propagators?

Just seeing what you're grafing and looking for folks for next Winter to trade/exchange scions/cutings with.

I have a block of Acer palmatum starting to leaf out and will be ready soon. I have ~55 Conifer grafts and am awaiting for some understock of Platycladus to waken up as well I just received for some Chamaecyparis nootkatensis 'Jubilee' scions I have in the fridge. Rooted cuttings of Thuja's 'Rosenthalii', 'Yellow Ribbon', and 'Emerald Variegated'; Cuttings of my Metasequoia species and of cultivar 'Ogon' / 'Gold Rush' as well. Some Platycladus cuttings from a very old plant located at my parents home. Declining cuttings of Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Vintage Gold'.

My conifer grafts are spoken for already, but would love to possibly trade cuttings in the Fall. Let me know if you're interested.

I just joined today so am figuring out the user aspects of the website. I'd prefer emails but still need to see how this website works.

Thanks,

Dax

Dax, I just wanted to say welcome, and your comments and postings are also welcome over on the greenhouse forum.

Stressbaby.

I'm not a grafter but I'd like to try some day. I do enjoy reading about the process though.

Welcome to the forums conifers. I'm so glad you found this site.

Your babies look beautiful there. You've done a nice job propagating.

Welcome to Daves. Maybe now that you and Resin are here we can get a conifer forum. I have no idea how to get that started.

Alright. Hello Stressbaby!

Hi Equilibrium,

Thanks. I've been a bit slow to join, but finally made it. The website, I'm finding to be user friendly...been uploading some trades information.
Thanks for the compliments about my grafts. As Stressbaby knows, all I need is a bigger greenhouse! He's got a beautiful greenhouse! Am happy with what I have though...

I've posted this at GardenWeb before, but here's a write-up I did on notes taken from Bob Fincham's Grafting Video (Coenosium Gardens)..
We might as well get the ball rolling!

Dax

Information for Conifer and Deciduous Grafting as well as Seed Collection dates for North America and recommendations for under stock selections.

(Notes taken from Bob Fincham’s Grafting Video. You can also visit his website for step-by-step photos detailing grafting procedures at www.coenosium.com) Bob Fincham is worldly known in the conifer community and also sells his conifers through Coenosium Gardens yearly catalog: ‘Catalog of Rare Plants For the Discriminating Person’.)

· Conifer Grafting Instructions (and deciduous)
· Pot up 1-2 year seedlings in spring. 2-year are typically best to purchase.
· Bring your potted seedlings into the greenhouse in December or when the ground freezes permanently. (If you live in a climate where it never freezes, some of these instructions may need to be modified. Unfortunately, I haven’t done the research to provide information for these climates.)
· Wait for root growth (white root tips are visible in the bottom of the pot) OR wait till 1/3 of your seedlings (in a block) have pushed growth. Then the entire block is ready to graft.
· Take your scions in the morning on a cloudy day. Your ideal scions will be the same thickness as your understock. However a cut into your understock matching your scion’s diameter is also a ‘go’. Then, if at all possible graft them right away.
· Label your scions using a permanent marker on your ziplock freezer bags.
· Prepare your scion. Remove 1/3 of the needles…make your cuts. Insert the scion so at least the outer flap on your understock matches up exactly with the length of the cut on your scion.
· Prepare your under stock by removing the leader and several of the other branches to gain better light ability. Cut into your understock to prepare for the insertion of the scion.
· Use a budding strip and wrap the entire area your just grafted tying it off at the bottom. Don’t tie it too tight and don’t tie it too loose. (Think of the plant as a living thing…just as yourself)…Your graft is done.
· Put your new grafts into a tented structure in the greenhouse to increase the humidity around the graft. (Poly is used for the tenting).
· 45-55 degrees is adequate for your greenhouse temperature and will promote good callusing. (Callusing is the point where your scion and under stock bond and where a good, strong connection takes place).


DECIDUOUS GRAFTING INSTRUCTIONS

Same as for conifers with only a few exceptions:
When 1/3 of a ‘block’ of seedlings is showing signs of growth up ABOVE the entire block is ready to graft.
Scionwood is taken the same way. Typically use wood having at least 3 sets of buds on it. 2 is quite possible…1 set of buds is pretty much you’re kidding yourself’
Do your cuts the same way and insert your scions into your understock just as you would do for a conifer graft. Be sure your buds are facing up (very important).
Attach your budding strip…
And then this is where it’s different from conifers: Right after you get your budding strip tied…you need to coat the entire ‘area’ with paraphin (spelling) aka ‘grafting wax’…110degrees is the desired temp. The wax can be heated in a crock-pot. And if you don’t have a thermometer…the wax should be ‘liquidy’ but not able to burn your own skin if you were to expose it to your skin. Previously I mentioned treating your plants ‘like people’…this is another example.
LASTLY, deciduous material does not need to be tented. The ‘fresh grafts’ are simply kept in the heated greenhouse uncovered or (non-tented).

A few more things to know:

*After you bring your potted seedlings into the greenhouse it will take approximately 2-3 weeks for them to show signs of growth at which time they’re ready to be grafted.
*When white root tips show at the bottom of any pot (Even if the plant isn’t ‘actively’ growing above) it can be grafted.
*A graft can be done anywhere on your understock. Typically weeping forms are done higher-up, which of course will provide you with a taller plant to start with. Knowing they can be grafted anywhere will provide you with the necessary information for doing ‘less-common’ graft’s such as ‘standard’s’ or ‘topiary’ grafts.

AFTERCARE FOR YOUR CONIFER GRAFTS

They’ve already been grafted and placed under poly in the greenhouse. There are numerous ways to ‘tent’ a few examples include: (1) simply ‘resting’ the poly on top of your understock (the grafts are below on the plant and will not get damaged) or (2) you can build some sort of wooden frame that allows you to drape the poly around your plants. A good example of this would be to construct raised beds of sand about 6 inches high and to build a frame above these beds so you can simply raise and lower the poly as needed. Also, I’ll just mention is you have raised beds…you can lean your grafts sideways so the scions are facing up…therefore less preparation is needed to ‘thin’ the branches of your understock.
Keep them watered of course so they don’t ever dry out (The poly tenting will raise the humidity)
When the scions begin growing (if you did proper care out of 1000 grafted plants it is possible for 1000 of them to ‘knit’) you need to remove the poly and place them elsewhere in the greenhouse.
After the scions have ‘exhibited decent growth’ you need to go in with a pair of pruners and remove 1/3 of the ‘new-growth’ on your understocks! This will once again open up the plant so more light can get to the scion.
Then when the weather warms up and is safe for the plants to be taken outdoors, then they can be potted up into 1-gallon containers…and at this time the budding strips must be removed.
Leave the understocks on for one-year…then remove them and allow for the scion to be the only thing left growing.
*Just a note…The understocks can be removed at the time of potting into 1-gallon containers but overall it’s best to leave them on for a year so the understock can continue feeding the scion. If you choose however to remove the understock at the time of potting..it does not mean it will kill the plant. Some growers do remove the understock at the time of potting up.

AFTER CARE FOR DECIDUOUS MATERIAL
As soon as the scion begins growing all of the understock must be removed to allow for the scion to grow on it’s own. This is where a deciduous graft differs from a conifer graft.
The budding strip is removed at the time of potting up.

Extra Information
The process of tenting the grafts is done as such. The tenting over your plant material is done only at night and then in the morning the poly is raised within the greenhouse. You should mist your grafts several times per day. Deciduous material as I mention does not need tenting.

Another process that brings about the same results is burying the understock (pot and all) up to the highest point on your budding strip under continuous moist sand. With this method, tenting with poly is never needed nor should it ever be used.


Seed Collection of Conifers (cone ripening dates)

Larix: All Larix are compatible as under stock
Fall September-December (decidua) Old cones stay on tree indefinitely

Picea: All Picea are compatible as under stock
Fall September-November (abies) ***under stock***
Fall August-September (engelmannii)
Fall Mid-August (glauca)
Fall September (mariana)
Fall Mid-September—Early October (pungens)

Abies: All Abies are compatible for under stock
Fall September-October (concolor)
Fall September-Mid-October (fraserii) Blue-green cones change to brown ***a second choice to nordmanniana as an under stock***
Fall September-October (nordmanniana) ***under stock***
Fall September-early October (veitchii) Bluish-purple cones change to brown

Pinus: Fall August-October (cembra)
Fall August-October (contorta var. latifolia)
Fall August-September (flexillis)
Fall September (koraiensis) ***under stock option*** (5-needled Pines)
Fall October (mugo)
Fall September-November (nigra)
Fall September (parviflora)
Fall August-October (resinosa) ***under stock*** (3-needled Pines)
Fall August-September (strobus) ***under stock*** (5-needled Pines)
Fall September-October (sylvestris)
Fall September-November (virginiana)

Chamaecyparis: September (nootkatensis, lawsoniana, thyoides)
Mature nootkatensis cones are yellow-brown in color.
Note: Chamaecyparis nootkatensis is now known as: Xanthocyparis nootkatensis.

***under stock***
Xanthocyparis nootkatensis (Chamaecyparis nootkatensis) can be grafted onto either Juniperus x media ‘Hetzii’ or onto Thuja orientalis ‘Biota’. Both of which have a deep tap root and prevent ‘Wobbling’. For hardiness reasons, Juniperus x media ‘Hetzii’ is the better of the two choices.

Juniperus: August-September (second to third year) (communis). Plants need to be 20 years old.
Mid-September-Mid December (scopulorum) persists 2-3 years. Plants need to be 10-20 years old.
September-November (virginiania). Plants need to be 10 years old.

NOTE: All junipers are compatible as rootstocks. Juniperus x media ‘Hetzii’ and Juniperus scopulorum are most commonly used. Also, for most practical reasons, most all junipers strike from cuttings.

Tsuga: September-October (Canadensis).

Metasequoia glyptostroboides: seed usually isn’t viable. Cones collected when the scales are not opened must be pried open by hand. Cones collected when the scales naturally begin opening will open within 1-2 weeks at room temperature. No stratification is required. Seeds should be sown and mulched with fine sand and begin germinating in 5 days. Seeds should be sown in a greenhouse with high humidity. In hot climates the seedlings should be shaded during the first growing season.

Deciduous

Fagus: Fall October-November (usually mid-September) (sylvatica) Seed is chestnut-brown, shining, thin-shelled nuts and drops after first frost 42 days of chilling followed by warmer temps for 28 days (68 degrees is optimal). Seed begins germinating at end of cold cycle.

Conifers that Strike from Cuttings (Root):
Chamaecyparis pisifera
Chamaecyparis obusa
Chamaecyparis lawsoniana (some)…most are grafted onto C.l. understocks.
Thuja (all)
Metasequoia glyptostroboides
Juniperus (scopulorum cultivars can de somewhat difficult)

For most practical reasons your cuttings should be done when the plant has been dormant for at least a full month. December is a good time in North America to do the work. A rooting hormone is definitely recommended. "Dip and Grow" and "Hormex #8" are good choices for conifers. Also, these cuttings need a humid environment such as a greenhouse. For homeowners or hobbyists without a greenhouse, results can be achieved by sealing your cuttings in a Ziploc Freezer Bag. Cuttings can be placed in plastic cups, Styrofoam cups, etc… Plastic cups allow the grower to see much easier when the roots have formed.

Under stock Compatibility of Conifers Previously Not Mentioned:
Cedrus: All are grafted onto Cedrus deodora even the hardier forms such as Cedrus libani var. stenocoma or Cedrus libani ‘Purdue Hardy’.

Pinus:
2 and 3-needled Pines. Use: Pinus contorta latifolia or Pinus banksiana. Some field growers think the banksiana has a better root system. I’ve heard of some growers using Pinus strobus for 3-needled pines.

5-needled Pines (bonsai). For all general purposes use Pinus strobus. Pinus thunbergiana however works just as well and is TOLERANT of salt. Being perfect for bonsai or for plants exposed to salty conditions. Pinus thunbergiana however is known to die out quicker than strobus. In cases of very old bonsai trees of Pinus parviflora it has been learned that the thunbergiana grafted ones die earlier and break much easier than those that were grafted onto strobus.

Photos of work being done:
http://www.coenosium.com/text399/spring,1.htm - "How To Graft Conifers - Coenosium Gardens"


http://webpages.charter.net/wbshell/garden/graft1.htm -Grafting The Japanese Maple

More Information on Understock Compatibility - Coenosium Gardens
http://www.coenosium.com/Musings/understk-scion.htm

Great, Great information. Thank you. Ken

I'm not grafting (yet) but I'm saving your post! Thanks, Dax. SB

I want everybody to learn. It's one of the greatest hobbies I've learned in my lifetime.

See ya,

Dax

I'm not quite ready to graft either but I saved your post and then I made you my very first entry in a new journal/blog I started here on Instructional Threads for personal use that I created for myself so I didn't lose anything important.

I looked at that video you linked to. Is that how you got your start? I am a visual person and prefer instructional videos. Do you recommend this video? Is it on target for a beginner or is it going to fly over the top of my head with wings?

Hi Equilibrium,

That video was definitely a large part of my journey. I also tend to ask a lot of questions when I'm around the right people as well. His video is so easy to understand, I 'd recommend it to a child. I too am visual so I know what you mean. I'm a reader of course as well, but I tend to read something ten times before I pick it all up. So yes, you'll be a grafter if you get that video and start asking questions (on here).

I've found a few really good friends that have helped me over the years and got lucky too. I moved back to Illinois in 2001 from Oregon and that winter I decided to take a trip to Bickelhaupt Arboretum. Heck, it was cold and the landscape was a foot deep in snow, the whole strory. Then along came the woman in charge of the arboretum and she approached me and said, 'In all the years I've been here, (her parents own the land) I don't recall ever a visitor in the middle of winter.' Well, that got the ball rolling. She put me in charge with Chub Harper (The Harper Collection in Tipton, MI.) who consequently introduced me to "Tom Dick and Harry" and the ball never stopped rolling from that point. It was obvious to all these people that conifers were running through my blood day and night.

Resin got me dialed in with all the understock choices for my part of the country (and yours probably as well.) Then numerous other folks including Bob Fincham who I emailed a good dozen times, have guided me. So yes, that video is worth its weight in gold. I've watched it many, many times that you can believe.

It sounds complicated when you're just starting out but you won't believe just how simple it really is and how fast to graft a plant. Then it of course takes dilligent care to nurture them into a healthy growing plant.

Here's a few thoughts I added to those notes before I went to sleep last night.

Extra Information
The process of tenting the grafts is done as such. The tenting over your plant material is done only at night and then in the morning the poly is raised within the greenhouse. You should mist your grafts several times per day. Deciduous material as I mention does not need tenting.

Another process that brings about the same results is burying the understock (pot and all) up to the highest point on your budding strip under continuous moist sand. With this method, tenting with poly is never needed nor should it ever be used.

Bottom Heat > a huge help! (Really gets that sap flowing which means quicker callous and better chance as well!)

Also, a neat thing to understand about growth rates of your plants (scions) you’ll be grafting. When you think of a conifer as being a ‘Miniature’, ‘Dwarf’, ‘Semi-Dwarf’, and ‘Large-Growing’. The faster the Conifer, the faster it knits (callouses). Same with miniatures, since they are slower growing they inversely take longer time to callous. Growth rates even have their place in grafting!

You’ve all heard of the “scratch test” to see if a plant is alive under the bark. Well, that “green” you’re hoping to find, is the cambium. This green area is what needs to be on the scion when you make your cuts and it also must be present on the “flap (at least) and hopefully on the other side of your cut as you cut into your understock. Matching up cambium to cambium is the key to the beginnings of a successful graft.

Dax

Maybe you could hold a grafting class for all wannabe grafters to get them over the hump of cutting into their trees? That's the big problem I suspect. You've been at this for a while but there are some of us out here who are extremely apprehensive. This may sound silly but the mere thought of cutting into the cambium layer on a healthy tree gives me the heevie jeevies. We spend thousands of hours nurturing plants by attempting to meet their cultural requirements and it sort of defies logic to potentially open a plant up to a pathogen. I'm sure my worries are unfounded but when you haven't done something before, the fear of the unknown gets to you. I have no idea where Rock Island is but you've got to be somewhere within 3 hours driving distance from me given I am up in the far ne corner of the state a stone's throw away from Lk Michigan and the IL/WI border. I'd try to attend a class if you offered one for nervous neophytes.

lol

Gee's Farms (Farm) there in South MIchigan offers a winter grafting class. You may check into it.

Other than that, check around and see if any nurseries or plantsmen and women near you would be willing to show you. Being a member of the ACS offers a Directory of all its members and you may find someone near you!

You're free to email me (anyone) anytime if you have questions as it's an open ended offer.

Regards,

Dax

Wow Dax I'm sure glad you posted this. Hey have you ever grafted any Japanese Maples to rootstock from the states? I'm considering grafting a Acer Palmatum "Bloodgood" on to our Acer Glabrum. My purpose is to get a hardy JM to grow in zone 4. Or won't the genetics let it?

Welcome Dax! I have "watched" you gathering this storehouse of (especially grafting) knowledge. I secretly hoped you were keeping it all organized on paper, rather than just all in your head. And all for the benefit of others(and me). You really are becoming the "man in the know." Certainly a LONG way from when you "couldn't stop dreaming about conifers"(remember?). Thanks for sharing.

And I see you enthusiasm has not diminished, and I say: Bravo!

Rick

Hi Leftwood, good to see you. Still got those grafts for ya, they're doing well. The greenhouse is starting to come alive.

Hi Soferdig,
I've been told that these are all compatible. palmatum, circinatum, japonicum, sieboldianum, pseudosieboldianum and even a grafter who's grafted palmatum, japonicum & circinatum to Acer buergeranum and over 15 years I was told with a clean union and well-growing healthy trees/cultivars.

Dax

It makes sense to me now that for climates where the plants don't go completely dormant (roots continue growing through winter) that to graft in regions such as these that the scion should show growth above prior to grafting and that 1/3 of a block is all that is necessary to begin grafting the entire "block." Then again, I don't know.

Dax

Hi Soferdig...one more thing.

When you're grafting, it's often best to stay with plants that have similar growth rates. I haven't looked up Acer glabrum so don't know it's growth rate, but with time even if the graft is successful (You'll never know until you try!) incompatibility can occur and losses happen and this is common when there are large or significant differences in growth rates.

I want ot say that Acer glabrum is "Rocky Mountain Maple" but I'm making that up!

You do realize also, that the top of the tree needs to be hardy in your zone, do you not? I'd try pseudosieboldianum first and if anything, sow seeds by the dozens and you'll end up with not only something hardy, but great trees in general and with the possibility of 'that unusual seedling.'

Good luck, and like others have told me in the past, 'let us know what happens.'

Dax

Yes i am aware of the need for tolerance of the top but my Bloodgoods are not growing much root and have limited growth. Acer Glabrum is an effective root system here and I just want to get that breakthrough plant and retire. HAHA. You are right it is Rocky Mt Maple and it is more agresssive growth than Palmatum early. But only in its first few years. It finishes smaller than Palmatum

Yeah Soferdig I'm aware of your dream! Let me make this real easy and break the news now rather sooner than later. You 'ain't' gonna die rich!

There are some Maples I know aren't compatible because I've heard often of how the Red Maples used to be grafted to Sugar Maples and they'd eventually die out due to compatibility. Then again, this guy I was telling you about who grafted lots of cultivars to that buergeranum understock is still bragging about his success, so see funnier things have been done which proved good results.

I'm not an expert, that I'd like to point out right now. I have managed to get my hands on everything I ever needed to know through various forms of media, for example chatting with you guys, and best of all I've managed to retain a lot of it in my head.

I guess I'll be a junkie till the day I die.

What I am rather, is just someone who is extremelely thirsty for knowlege, and am on a mission 27/7 just like you trying to find a way, a way that is to find that plant I've always known deep down inside that's been looking for me! all along!

Good luck on your grafting and have fun!

Dax

Don't take me seriously! LOL

Dax

Just like you I read and learn. The only problem is I only learn from my mistakes not my reading.. I have this idea and it is going to work. HaHa. You and I are much like Columbus or better Leif Erickson and needed to see it for ourself. Who cares who cashes in just let me try.

Good for you!

Hey Dax -- just got back from Chicago to find that you've joined the rest of us former GW Tree Forum folks over here on DG. Welcome aboard!

Guy S.

I'm pleased to be here!

Thanks for the welcoming.

Dax