Calling all coniferites.....

...or coniferians(kinda like Rastafarians, but with a different group of plants)...

I have a pond, and at one end, the bank has a mild slope and is a gravelly soil with 35 years of "duff" accumulated on top. Full sun until later in the afternoon. There is an old White Pine at the top of the bank. What smaller conifers might enjoy living there? I have some Comptonia and Myrica there now, and will add some Snowberry, and Gro-low Sumac. Thanks,

With the moisture that would be present there I would consider any Abies species you might like. I just planted one of these. Not real big but quite a fir.

No moisture present--its above the water level.

Firs like the apparent moisture of the lake surrounding the area. I don't know how they would do at low elevation they love it here. No picky needles and the smell is wonderful. I love your white pine, I brought one back from Michigan from the tree I used to play on as a child. There are several columnar Junipers that are quite attractive and require no work. My favorite is the Bristle Cone Pine. But you will never see it big. I have used 2 to outline a path and the cones are spectacular. A new one I got last year was a Serbian Spruce and its shape is very beautiful and it stays small. these are 2 year old Bristle Cone Pine. They started as 5 gal trees. 24" high. They outline the path to my compost pile.

This message was edited Mar 1, 2006 9:48 AM

Now that's the nicest compost pile that I've ever seen!

Thanks for the pic, Dig. Did you perhaps mean Serbian spruce? or Siberian pine? (Looks like)Your Serbian spruce in the pic is coming along quite nicely, although it seems it might get gobbled up by other conifers.

Not much into the Abies genus here as my land is still quite hot and dry.

Huh, oops your right spruce. The only other tree is the sloooooooow growing bristle cone to the right. The doug firs in the back are 100 ft away. The Ponderosa to the right is planned for removal when the others around it mature. 200 years from now. The columnar Juniper is just sitting in the compost keeping warm for the winter until the soil is ready in my new bed.

This message was edited Mar 1, 2006 9:58 AM

Not many cultivars around but Picea mariana like wet conditions as do any dwarfs of Taxodium distichum. Blueberries (Vaccinium) would be a great companion, Deciduous Azalea as well. Brain going blank...

Dax

Omigawd, it's Dax!

How did you get away/cross over? Go towards the light....

At least you made it out of the Taxodium swamp in one piece. How's the old dog? You'll have to post some new pics.

Well, there'll just have to be a separate Conifers forum now. It could be populated (alone) by the BIG THREE upper midwest states' contingent, plus Resin.

This message was edited Mar 3, 2006 12:54 PM

This message was edited Mar 3, 2006 12:54 PM

yah yah, good to see you too VV.

Now I have to actually hold an intellectual conversation that I know you are here. Just when things were carefree...

Now the 'Omigawd's' and the dog stuff... I got your BIG Baldcypress right here VV.

"Really", I say... (Must place thinking cap back on head but remove as often as possible to avoid intellectual mayhem/discourse)

Dax

Image - Giant City, Illinois - "Baldcypress"

I swear this darn thing didn't work. Anyway, you're right, Mr. Bigtime has arrived...

Enjoy,

Dax

Try cultivar 'Peve Minaret' (Taxodium distichum). This is what the big boys like me and VV would use.

Dax

VV - How did you get away/cross over? Go towards the light....:)

"Guy Sternberg invited me."

Lata punk!

Way to go, Guy. Ken

I have Peve Minaret in another wet location, but this is gravelly soil, with no moisture. That was my original question. The location is too far above the pond to benefit from its H2O. V V and Decumbent were there, where the Ilex pedunculosa lives under that big old pine. I am attaching a photo to jog your memories. The yellow arrows point out the top of my deer fence, which is perhaps the best investment I have ever made. It is visible only when covered with ice or wet snow. The blue arrow points out my 6', small caliper Davidia involucrata, which is on Winter #2 and doing just fine. Could it turn out to be the long sought Zone 5 Davidia??? I hope so. It is straight from China, so different genetics than the two versions in the USA today.

I am 6 months into DG and don't know all the "great ones" so after your grafting thread I want to bow down. Thanks for the info. Ditto on the deer fence. best thing I ever did with the garden. You must have used the black plastic. We have elk and Bear so they don't stop with that and need to build elk fence here.

Both of you need to stop bragging about your exclusion fencing!

Hi Dax - nice tree! What happened to the one back right of it?

Hi Kevin - what's that strange white deposit on all your trees?

Resin

Soferdig diary: Exclusion fencing - Such that: gardeners who ever they may be can select the plant of choice and nurture it to its full maturity without some freeloading low-life, creature from the firey pit, hairy munchamatic, browser to come along and for no reason but to be a butt head and taste from the hard labors of mankind the newest flavor of the day.

Steve, where do you have this exclusion fencing? I've yet to see it in any of your pics. Take for example the shot of the compost area. And while I'm being nosy is all that park like looking background yours as well. Nice looking place, buddy!

Ya, both of them have exclusion fencing that keeps Bambis and Thumpers out. They don't have HO Associations that prohibit fencing.

Hey Resin,

I wasn't there when it happened. lol

Thanks.

Dax

Now back to Kevin's question: Any of the pines like well-drained, gravely soil.

Pinus strobus 'Horsford' is great, as is Pinus strobus 'Sea Urchin'.

The following is a list of the pines that I have growing in my yard and all are very nice. Some grow a little faster than others. I especially like the Pinus cembra cultivars.

Pinus banksiana 'Manomet'
Pinus cembra 'Blue Mound'
Pinus cembra 'Compacta'
Pinus cembra 'Glauca Compacta'
Pinus densiflora 'Jane Kluis' (this may be a hybrid)
Pinus koraiensis 'Silveray' - this is tall and narrow with beautiful blue foliage
Pinus mugo 'Big Tuna' - this one is a little larger than the others
Pinus mugo 'Jacobsen' - a nice compact plant with crested (fasciated) growth
Pinus mugo 'Mitsch Mini' - a really small, compact plant
Pinus mugo 'Teeny' (Sherwood Compact)
Pinus mugo 'Winchester'
Pinus parviflora 'Ara Kawa' (Warted)
Pinus parviflora 'Hagaromo'
Pinus parviflora 'Tanima No Uki'
Pinus ponderosa Broom seedling (Jerry Morris) (sorry, you won't be able to find this one)
Pinus resinosa 'State Trooper' (was 'Edelweiss WB')
Pinus strobus 'Eric' (this may be a parviflora cultivar)
Pinus strobus 'Green Twist'
Pinus strobus 'Horsford'
Pinus strobus 'Sea Urchin'
Pinus strobus 'Weston Elf' - nice bluish needles

You need to keep an eye on the dwarf Pinus strobus cultivars and keep the dead needles from accumulating in the center of the plant. For some reason, the dwarf strobus cultivars will die all-of-a-sudden if the dead needles are not removed periodically (yearly) from the center of the plant.

In zone 5, you should be able to grow any of the Pinus parviflora cultivars (and there are millions to choose from) and just about all of them are wonderful.

Pinus mugo 'Teeny' aka 'Sherwood Compact' (both the same plant) has a great, tight growth habit and grows an inch or less per year (here in Minnesota; your mileage may vary).

Junipers will also do quite well in those conditions. Juniperus squamata 'Blue Star' should do great there. It's quite slow growing and very blue.

Go to the conifer society web page to see photos of many of these plants and to see if you like how they look.

Here's a link:

http://www.conifersociety.org/

Good luck,
Mike

Mike, we have strobus apenty in the large form, but I have had the most trouble with the cultivars. Killed two 'horsford' early on and have shied away because of that experience. This on heavy soil that would not perc. The species that I've moved in from other locations on the property are ok. Abies, picea cultivars thriving, not so with strobus. Thoughts?

Soferdig--Actually, the fence is kind of a chicken wire covered in vinyl sold by www.deerdefence.com great stuff, and will last far longer than the plastic fencing.

Resin--oh, that white stuff? It's pollen, yea, pollen. The plants are quite fertile here.

Mike--perfect--that's what I was after. I see a great many of those in my list from the local nursery(although a Pinus cembra 'Blue Mound' in a 3' box is $1150!! You conifarians are made of money!). If Pinus mugo would work, that would be fine, and it wouldn't matter if it got 30' tall someday. I see Pinus kor. 'Oculis draconis' on my nursery list--how big does that one get? And Pinus cembra 'Chalet', 'Glauca', or 'Pygmaea'? P. parv. 'Ara kawa' is available and resonably priced. I'll do some more research. I have a couple Pinus cembra here, species and 'Chalet' I think, and I do like them. That might work well over there.....

Scott, I hope your new Abies koreana Horstman Silberlocke grows well for you. I love it and tried twice and lost both. Maybe my soil is just too alkaline.

DonnaS

Hey I was reading in a book written when the first settlers came to the Pac NW and they had a Pine called a Sugar Pine. It was huge! Are they all gone now?

kandlmidd,
More than likely it's the understock (rootstock) that the strobus cultivar is grafted onto that is causing the losses (problem). I know of one wholesale nursery that uses Pinus strobiformis as understock for all of their 5-needled pine cultivars - and that could be (probably is) the problem. While Pinus strobus can tolerate your local soil conditions, the understock that the cultivars are grafted onto cannot tolerate the local soil conditions. You might be able to have someone custom-graft some of the cultivars that you want onto actual strobus understock and see if that works. The plants should do OK for you, in your local soils, if grafted onto straight Pinus strobus understock. P. strobiformis is used because this species has a thick cambium layer and the scions take very well when this understock is used (lots of successes).

Kevin,
Well, I have more time than money, so I buy small plants and wait for them to grow. Someday I will win that blasted PowerBall jackpot and be able to start an arboretum filled with specimen-sized conifers. (:o)

I purchased a small Pinus cembra 'Blue Mound' from Heronswood nursery several years ago for $15.00. My plant is starting to get some size to it now and it's planted just a little too close to my Acer pseudosieboldianum - which is a bummer. I guess I'll have to limb-up the Acer to allow the 'Blue Mound' some more room.

It is nice to buy a few large plants for the landscape, but I think that starting with smaller plants is better in the long run. A large container-grown plant is probably very rootbound and won't do as well as a much smaller, younger plant.

Here is a link to the Blue Sterling web site. This wholesale nursery has a number of cool plants and photos listed on their web site and quite a bit of good information.

http://www.bluesterling.com/catalog.htm

Blue Sterling lists Pinus koraiensis 'Oculus Draconis' as an intermediate grower, so the tree will grow 6" to 12" per year, which makes this a fairly large tree. I love the Pinus koraiensis cultivars. I ordered some seed of this tree and I hope to have a few seedlings later this year.

Pinus cembra 'Chalet' is a narrow, fastigiate plant and is wonderful. A local nursery had some 4' specimens last summer and they wanted $500.00 for them. If you can find a decent sized plant for a reasonable amount of money - buy it!! The Pinus cembra cultivars remain very full-looking because Pinus cembra holds its needles for 5 years before dropping them. I believe that Pinus strobus only holds its needles for 2 years before dropping them. (Pinus aristata and Pinus longaeva [the Bristlecone pines] hold their needles for 25 years).

You can't go wrong with any of the Pinus cembra cultivars.

Pinus parviflora 'Ara Kawa' (warted form) has very cool bark after the plant matures a bit. I would not hesitate to buy this cultivar.

A word of caution, it's very easy to get hooked on conifers. Like Lays potato chips, you can't stop at just one...
Good luck,
Mike


edited to correct a mistake

This message was edited Mar 4, 2006 10:40 AM

This message was edited Mar 4, 2006 10:44 AM

Oh after reading Muir I wanted to see one. Thank you! What a tree. Pinus Lambertiana wow.

I added Pinus cembra 'Chalet' and Pinus mugo to my order--should be good for the bank