Gardening under/around Fruit Trees Question

Hi all,
I need some advise as to how far away one can plant vegetables from fruit trees. This is the situation. We now have a large fenced area about 75ft.X 16ft. that we use for our chicken yard. In this area are also planted our fruit trees. One mature queen anne cherry tree, one med. size peach tree, one med. size apple and one med size pear tree. We are going to redo this area moving the chickens to another spot. I'm wondering if we could plant a vegetable garden around these fruit trees without damaging the roots. I know we would not be able to plant directly under these trees but I'm wondering with the width only being 16 ft or so might there be room enough on the perimeter of this area to use as a vegetable garden. I realize the there will be some shade due to the trees but we live in the dessert so sometimes shade is at an advantage. You see the sod has already been dug up and there is allot of nice chicken manurer spread everywhere. We want to expand our vegetable garden anyway and I would be really nice if we could use this area instead of having to dig up more lawn. How far away can you plant under a fruit tree?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Robert Hart wrote a book years ago called Forest Farming, inter planting of Fruit Trees, high canopy with bushes, (Raspberries) low canopy and using mostly perrenial herbs as groundcover. In areas he was fond of raised pyramid beds i think for real 'veggies'. Any Permaculture book would probably have similar ideas. It would just be a case of marrying the plants that grow in your area to the plan. Chris.

This is actually a great question. I have a small orchard here, tiny actually with only about 30 fruit trees and I've often wondered about how I could make use of the space under the trees. I suspect for me it would be more a question of what vegetables would grow in part shade. I know like nothing about vegetables other than that I like to have a few tomato plants every year and the kids like to grow carrots so they can pull them out of the ground to check their progress then ram them back in the ground. We do have raspberries and blackberries here and I think we even have a few gooseberries. Where they are now is beyond me. I forgot where I planted them.

Anyone out there growing anything under their apple, cherry, pear, peach, or plum trees? Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I have Manchurion apricot out there too.

Hi, sagewoodfarm,
Welcome to DG. I grow my vegetables in raised beds next to two apple trees and a peach tree. The closest bed is about 10 feet from them, and I have no problems. BTW, the beds are 16'L X 4'W X 6"D.

sagewoodfarm, great name, and we are pretty much in same growing area, except that you are warmer than my zone 5 area.

I go through your town once or twice a year on the way home from Reno. But since I am riding on the bus no chance to stop. Are you close to the hwy. 225 I think. We are going to Reno March 19 and coming back through Benton City, March 24 I think. It is a neat trip and I enjoy seeing the areas.

I grow two peach trees, 2 cherries, 2 apricots, berries and other fruits. Have ordered a 4 in 1 Pluot and a couple of gooseberry plants for this spring. I grow all kinds of things in the same area, but keep outside of the dripline of the trees. Seems to work okay for me ,I do try to keep everything mulched.

DonnaS

If you grow organic, the lack of sun is the only thing I can think of. Many plants don't bloom well in the shade, and for things like squash, bloom is what you need.

Depending on what is used for fertilizer, this can also affect your veggies. Around here, we use N on peaches, and if you tried to grow peppers nearby, all you get is a large bush until late (too late) in the fall. I also wouldn't till too close to the trees themselves, remember that the feeder roots are at least to the drip line of the tree and in the top few inches of soil.

Thanks for responding to my question. I was starting to wonder. I must ask some dumb questions. I don't know much about trees. How far out is the drip line? And what is N? Nitregen? I'm not exactly sure what my husband uses for Fertilizer. The trees are kind of his thing. I take care of the beds, flower and veg. and he takes care of the birds, trees and lawn.

Hi DonnaS, I had noticed your post and your location. Yes we live acctually right off of 224 which connects with 225 right outside of Benton City by the Conaco Gas Station. I knew of a couple that moved to Tonasket a few years ago. Can't remember their last names, her name was Gwen, she was a real character. I know Tonasket is petty small. They lived outside in the country. I'm new to Eastern Washington, moved over from the Westside so am learning how to garden here.

Thanks all for the feedback maybe we can use that space under the trees.

It probably took a little while to get picked up on here because most people are woody orientated. I just checked over to vegeatable gardening thinking it would be a better place to ask this question. I see that you have a 'companion planting' question there and maybe shOuld pose this one as well. I am a no digger and hence can plant under trees without worrying about roots and bebelive in companion planting, letting the worms do the work, and working of the path. I've just never been to WA so not sure about what veggies you like for one and can grow there. I would reccomend trying to find some organic/permaculture group because within those kind of interests you will find the companion/forest gardeners who can help you in your own climate.

I consider the drip line to be the outer edge of the tree leaves. I'm sure someone else has a better explenation. And yes N is nitrogen.

I am pretty much an organic gardener, which means I make and use a lot of compost. I use store bagged composted manure, Planters 2, and as much worm castings as I can afford. If I can help you in any way let me know.

DonnaS

I consider the 'drip edge' is the shadow made by the tree at noon when the sun is directly above. I wouldn't dig within that shadow.
Interesting question. though,
Andy P

Good point about minimizing tree-root disturbance within the dripline -- don't till there. Regarding what might grow best there, how about some of the "frost-proof" things like lettuce that can get a head start before the trees leaf out and cast shade?

Guy S.

I have had a Mantis tiller, first a couple of gas ones and now an electric . But don't use it much now. the more I read and study and experiment in my garden I think tilling is really not helping the soil or the worms etc that live in the soil. I felt really bad a couple of times when I tilled up a toad.

I grow using my own version of the lasagna method. For my little corn patch, for instance, I cut the corn stalks at ground level, and give the stalks to the fellow who works for me to feed his horses. Then a layer of compost, and probably composted steer manure, covered with a layer 1 to 2" of the shredded branches, large garden stalks. Which is on the corn patch now. When the weather warms up enough to plant I dig a trench with my pointed trenching hoe, or whatever it is called, about 2 inches deep, drop in the corn seed, use my rake and cover the seed with about one inch of the compost mix that was disturbed when I dug the ditch

Makes good corn, sure wish I had one right now.

DonnaS