Alkaline soil, alkaline water...

I have very alkaline soil and our water is as well. I am putting in a large raised bed garden to accommodate wheelchair gardening. The place that i am purchasing the soil (garden soil, not fill) from is organic and their soil tests pretty neutral. My question is after years of watering my soil is going to tend back toward alkaline because of our water. Is there anything i can do? I use fertilizer for acid loving plants on most things in my yard (except for the few alkali lovers) would you fertilize a garden this way, just to keep things evened out?

Thanks for any info!

I probably have pretty much the same soil and water as you and it hasn't really been a problem. I avoid plants that are "acid loving" for the most part. Had no trouble growing plants that do well in "neutral" conditions.

I use a lot of compost and/or shredded bark mulch and let the worms do the work. Once I've claimed an area I never let the soil there go "naked" and I use soaker hoses and drip watering for most everything (yup, good old, calcium saturated NV well water). I've never used a fertilizer and truthfully I doubt you can get more than a temporary change in ph with it.

tombaak and Dana, I have the same conditions and water as you two do. Have been here about 11 years now, Nothing here when I moved here, except native grasses and sagebrush. I will try to find a before photo.

I started compost piles, containers, whatever, immediatly and can't make it as fast as I use it. There were no sign of worms when I moved in but now with the compost, etc. there are quite a lot of worms. A couple of times I did buy some Red Wigglers and put in the compost piles, now there are still some there.

And I too use mostly soaker hoses and drip watering. I have 4 or 5 azaleas and rhododendrons, I mulch them with pine needles and also my 4 blueberry bushes. Oh and my Pin Oak too. Mostly don't try to grow acid needing plants.

DonnaS

Yup, sagebrush and grasses is mostly what I got. Also inherited masses of the evil salt cedar (now removed with the help of a backhoe). And mesquite and a few pines. After 2 years on this property most of it is still in it's "before" state. A neighbour down the road just cleared everything off of his property and replaced it with mostly rock and gravel. I suppose that's an option but I'm fonder of "slow and steady" redevelopment of the landscape. Or possibly I'm just lazy and that's just plain old easier for me to do ROFL.

I've kept selected mesquites (nice trees, fantastic wildlife forage), pines and am incorporating a fair amount of sagebrush and other natives (creosote, globemallow, some grasses,etc.) into the master plan. At some point I will probably try something like a gardenia in my east-facing bed by the house but going to give it another year or two of constantly adding compost. Too hot here to even consider rhodies, not sure about blueberries...maybe in a half-barrel. Blackberries are doable (and definitely not invasive here) though so all is not lost.

I have earthworms in some of my longer cultivated areas but not nearly everywhere. Yet. I am stubborn :). I have one of those 3-tiered worm bins in a utility room but doubt the red wrigglers could survive outdoor heat here. I definitely can relate to using it faster than I can make it, everything organic breaks down unbelieveably fast here. I plant things much closer than standard recommendation to conserve moisture and keep shade cover.

In some ways I think gardening in our soil, temperature, and water challenged parts of the world is more rewarding than doing it in areas already lush with vegetation. The change as it develops is so much more dramatic.

I think you are entirely correct in your last statement. How cold did it get in your area this past winter (well not entirely past). Our coldest weather was in Dec. and Feb. Jan. was wetter than normal and warmer. I am ready for SPRING.

DonnaS

Not very. Aside from a total of maybe 2 weeks we almost had a "zone 9" winter. Some of my roses still have foliage. I am not complaining hehe.

I used raised beds here in Montana and made the soil to fit all the plants I wanted. using different Soil types: clay, sand, sandy loam, etc I added peat, cow, horse, etc,and lots of compost and bark to get the soil draining. Worms galore in all the raised beds. I started with 6.9 to 7.2 soil. You are probably around 7.5? This is a look of raise bed thing. this is my veggie garden.

As always, very impressive, Steve.

Just having high-organic soil will raise the pH tolerance of you plants, I think. I do not have any solid scientific backing, but I can tell in my garden. We shall see about this with a Larix and Azalea in 7.5 soil.
Worms and compost unite, horrah!
K. James

My soil was terribly overgrazed. When we got it there was nothing but salt grass, two cottonwoods and one sagebrush. When planting our trees we found no worms at all, we have heavily amended all areas we planted with lots of sheep manure. I had a tree killed by ground squirrels and when we dug up the root ball (or what was left of it) there were lots of worms in the area. Thank you manure!

Can you imagine being a worm living deeeeeeep down in sagebrush soil just trying to stay alive. When suddenly a thought goes through your slime to go up young man. And boom, just above someone starts spreading manure, sand, compost, and other tasty worm bacterias. Now you crawl up to find what you have always hoped for. I'm sure that, that worm is Emailing to every friend, family, and previous sections that have rejuvenated after separation, inviting them to a field of black gold!!

It has been so cold all of Feb. so I am sure my compost piles are doing much breaking down. Got down to 25 again. However yesterday we had a good rain for several hours in the morning, but since the ground is frozen, not too deeply I hope, there were puddles everywhere, but since it wasn't so cold, got to 45, with a south wind. by now most of the water has soaked down into the ground.

Here is a shot of my 15 yr. old Abies procera nobilis, one of my favorite evergreens.

DonnaS

I love the noble fir and any other. Abies is my favorite conifer. They grow faster here cause I got a noble fir taller than that that I planted 5 yrs ago, irrigated and the other one I planted in soil away from irrigation is only 4' tall. My compost is steaming on the mornings where we have a dewpoint above the ambient temp. hanging around 30 to 50 F each days low and High. Lots of sun today again. I sit and watch it like a person reading a book. Boy am I weird but I love my plants and this is their birthday presents. It is hanging around 30 to 50 F each days low and High. Lots of sun today again.

Greetings ~

I am also new to high desert gardening. Most of our property is sand (at least 7 feet down - Do you really think there are worms way under there somewhere? ) covered in sage brush, cats claw and winter fat. When the snow melted into the sand, acres of crab grass sprung to life. (Ok, it's green and there is no way to beat that much crab grass, so for the moment, we've let it be. Maybe a baaad mistake?)

My pH is running about 7.5 - 8 in unamended places. We planted a bunch of black austrian pines and mixed bagged garden soil 50-50 with sand for their planting holes. The pH is closer to 6.5 there. Do you think they will go into pH shock when their roots hit the pure sand? Or just general nutrient deprivation shock?

DanaDW, I like the idea of "not letting the soil go naked".

I'm not real social, but I am trying to butter up my two neighbors - one of which raises a few head of cattle each year and one who has 2 horses. I'm not exactly sure what they do with their livestock "waste", but I was thinking it would be good to "waste" it on the sand on my side of the road...I guess I'm going to just have to introduce myself. And I guess I will have to accept the fact that they may think I am crazy - It doesn't look like anyone around us really tries to grow anything. A few people have windbreak trees, but no one is actually trying to, like, say, grow an English cottage garden (which, of course, is exactly what I am working towards...) (Did I say I like a good challenge? I also enjoy trying to do the impossible :-)

Anyway, very interesting to read you comments and ideas. Take care. Karla

Compost away, that is the trick in the high desert -and everywhere else if I'm not mistaken! At least you will ahve good drainage. The Austrain pines should be fine with the planting you described- the most common problem for them that I see is that they must be winter watered, ESPECIALLY in sandy soil, and (especially) the first few years. Evergreens must replace lost moisture to their needles all winter, just from a with a small, pot-sized root ball. (The sand's pH will quickly overtake the other)

Grasses improve and pin down the soil, so let it be unless you provide a replacement for it, I opine.
K. James

For your sake i hope it is crab grass and not alkaline salt grass.

Nevada Organics runs out of Moundhouse and will deliver nice amended garden soil 60 / 40 mix. I am not sure if they deliver out as far as you, but if they do, at 20 cubic yard it is way cheaper than buying bags if you are planting a lot. Their PH runs very neutral. And if you really want to spend some money and make your soil love you, Full Circle Composting is in Gardnerville and sells a humified compost http://www.fullcirclecompost.com/SoilEssenceEliteN.cfm that rocks!

You will also be able to find many a place around here that deliver livestock waste at a nominal fee, or will let you pick it up for free.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

Maybe this brochure might help you.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/MG092

I have alkaline soils and well water too. You have to contend with micronutrients deficiencies as elements like iron and manganese are tied up in high pH soils.

As the brochure says there is really nothing that will keep it down permanently. In my raised vegetable beds I just add alot of organic matter. In the rest of my yard I just mulch and fertilize with fertilizer that has micronutrients added.

Tombaak,

"I use fertilizer for acid loving plants on most things in my yard (except for the few alkali lovers) would you fertilize a garden this way, just to keep things evened out?"

I wouldn't continually use the acid fertilizer if its acidifying ingredient were aluminum sulfate or alum, because you could build up a high level of aluminum in your soil that way.

Cowpea's link has some good information about keeping the pH down in alkaline soil and water conditions.

Since you are purchasing some rather neutral soil, your main concern is keeping your alkaline water supply from turning your purchased neutral soil to an alkaline state. I think you could do that by dissolving a small amount of ammonium sulfate in your water before you apply it to your soil. There are other things you could use, too. Hydroponic growers use small amounts of phosphoric acid to lower the pH of their nutrient solutions.

MM

Thanks all for the information!