E List Advocacy

I thought this set of ideas fit in well here, as additional points to make in support of greater indigenous plant use.

Most people know regionality is important when prescribing indigenous species, but don't necessarily recognize that more often it isn't when debating/discussing/advocating about pest plants.

That's because the plant doesn't know it where it's growing, and because people don't leave them in one place, either. If one was successful in growing a particular plant (and were either unaware of its status, or didn't care), one would be likely to distribute it further and more likely to where it can/will be a problem.

So, how about joining the E list?

•Err on the side of caution (dare I say responsibility?).

•Enjoy the view of the debatable plant next door; that's free.

•Elect to plant one of the thousands of wonderful natives that you've never tried!

•Excite visitors and neighbors by increasing the plant mix.

•Elevate the knowledge base: there's a good chance that you could plant any one of the hundreds of (name of your location here) indigenous plants that none of your neighbors have ever seen or heard of.

Have a blast and great success.

Viburnumvalley, you are my new hero.

Although for some debatable plants, I'd offer another "E," maybe, and that would be to Educate neighbors and friends as to why a debatable plant holds that status, and why it might be one on the top of the list to think about replacing when it's time for a change in the garden.

Hope you get plenty of positive responses to this.

But how do you come across so people don't think you're preaching to them? Or some native nazi or the native police....???? BTW...John, can I copy and paste your list of E's elsewhere? I'll give you the credit...but only if you say it's alright....

Terry

This message was edited Feb 23, 2006 4:49 PM

Hi Darwin, Baa:

Educate and Example; Excellent!

Wild Raisin:

Exude Empathy and Express Exuberance!

Extremists are Exhausting and Execrable.

It takes practice (like posting on DG!) and you get better with age, like wine.

Viburnimvalley I thought JamesCo was the wisest most knowledgable person on DG. With that opening you (sorry Ken) have moved to my mentor status.
terryr you need to become more bold and move where ever YOU want to go. Get free and forget about those who want to call you a Nazi. To hel.... with John. Publish it anywhere! It needs to be heard.
OOOOOPs I'm getting on a soap box. I need to shut up, I need to shut up.
Of course my concern is the other E. - Evolution survival of the fittest may not be so good.
My childhood friend Dan Hinkley (Herronswood Nursery) has to submit his indigeous (to China, Korea, Japan, Tibet, etc) plants to the Federal gov to see if they could be invasive. So I respect his choice for doing that with every creature he brings back to US.

This message was edited Feb 22, 2006 8:50 PM

This message was edited Feb 22, 2006 9:07 PM

Sofer, did you see the mans picture?? Flannel shirt and full facial hair.....looks like a serial killer is you ask me.........ask Guy, he'll tell ya, I've seen a serial killer.....lol...
And please don't stroke his ego! See how nice I am...I answered a direct question.....hmmm.......plus I really want some sambucus!

Terry

ego is what makes a person above all in knowledge. (in their mind) And drives them to greatness that humbles us all. (they think) So all of us become better people. (according to them)
Besides anyone who has a picture of 48 (count them) bottles of wine and only 2 glasses. Expects to get some. The cat is a great sign of sensitivity. (Falsely assumed) But Viburnumvalley you are awesome!
Do you really have sambucus?

If a cat is a great sign of sensitivity, then I must be a really sensitive person because I look around my house and see nothing but signs of sensitivity. Signs of sensitivity laying on the heat registers, signs of sensitivity laying on the back of the couch, signs of sensitivity sprawled out in the middle of the kitchen table, and signs of sensitivity in my laundry baskets. Why I even have signs of sensitivity walking across my counter tops in my kitchen and drinking out of our toilets and shredding entire rolls of toilet paper. So many signs of sensitivity and so little time.

I have a wine cellar here and I have Sambucus. Does that elevate my status?

Does anyone but me notice he's ignoring the whole thread??? And still no answer to my question...:o( Me thinks we're being ignored.

Sofer, I don't know about you, but Equil has sambucus, so maybe we can get some volunteers from her?

And regarding cats....I'm allergic to them. Yep, the whole hives and eyes swelled shut kind of allergic. Can I still be sensitive? Perty please??? Besides, my little doggie is a little like a cat, but she doesn't climb on counters, tear apart rolls of tp, lay in the middle of the kitchen table......Oh no! She likes to lay on the back of the couch and bark at the wind!

Terry

He's back to work I believe. Some of us can sit at our desks and pop in and out all day long but others... sigh... aren't afforded that luxury. I miss him being around on and off throughout the day.

Nice RedWing crocks Terry. That's not a dog, that's a toilet bowl scrubber without a handle! And, the only reason why it can't get on the counter tops is because it can't jump that high. Just kidding, my dogs are considerably larger so I don't know how well I would do with owning a dog that isn't as big as some of my cats. Cute little thing actually. One of these days I am going to have a pretty dog like yours. By the way, we used to have a German Rottweiler. Those are slightly longer haired than their American cousins and they are somewhat bigger at around 95-115 lbs. I came home from work one day and my husband's dog was looking out at me through the kitchen window and I could see its whole body was wiggling. Yup, dog on the counter top. I am short and for the longest time I couldn't figure out how that dog was ending up on my counter top staring at me. It was using the step stool I use to get to higher shelves. I started folding up the step stool and no more dog on counter top staring out the window at me. Until, it started pushing a kitchen chair over to the counter top. For a while I overturned kitchen chairs when I left but gave up because every time I'd forget, that dog would be staring at me from the kitchen window when I came home. Finally the dog went blind and got just too old to get on the counter tops. That same dog used to open my refrigerator door with its teeth to self feed. I finally had to stick a bungie cord on the door handles because the dog was getting obese and Dr. Weissman told me I had to get some weight off that dog. How do you get weight off a dog that helps itself to everything in your frig? Most parents yell to their kids to shut the refrigerator door. Me, I had to remind them to hook the bungie cord to the desk drawer. Yup, one of these days I'm going to get me a cute little dog that stays on the floor and is not strong enough to open anything with its teeth.

Yes Terry, you can have some Sambucus but you need to come and dig it out. This way I get to meet somebody from Illinois! You're somewhere around me. If you really don't think you'll ever be out my way, I can figure something out. I don't know if you are aware of this but Great Lakes Nursery sells it and they are a great place to deal with. And, they are affordable.

Thanks Equil, she is pretty cute, isn't she? Everybody always says she looks like Rufus from the Zyrtec commercial...remember that one? You wouldn't want her as a toilet bowl scrubber...she'd leave too much hair. Yuck. Funny story about your husbands dog!
And I like my redwing crocks too!

I sure would come and dig them up! You're somewhere, I just don't know where......
I like the pricing on yours a whole lot better than any place I could order it from :o)

Terry

Yes, my husband's dog was a sweetie, so darn ugly though. When it started going blind, I got nervous about the counters and began stacking laundry baskets on the counters in an attempt to deter the BEAST from getting up there out of fear it would fall off the counter and break a leg. Didn't work. I gave up until one day it just never got up on the counter again. I currently have a Great Dane puppy THING that some ding dong taught how to open doors before we got it from the Rescue. I have never in all my life seen a dog open a door with its mouth. Now we have to lock all the doors all the time or it will walk itself. Wheeee, I'm freeeeeee. Not to change the subject from plants but I'd really like to have a Golden or a Tri-Color Collie again. Those are pretty dogs too and they only weigh around 70-85 lbs which would be a nice size. I like Springer Spaniels and English Setters too and what ever you have would be nice but I don't know if my cats would like something that small and then there is the issue of it being small enough to get through the cat hole to the basement where all the cat litter boxes are. It would be just my luck I'd end up with a cute tiny thing like what you have that would be into rooting around in cat litter boxes for tasty tidbits. One of these days I'm going to break away from the Great Danes and Mastiffs they always push on us when we go in to get a nice Lab.

There are a couple of us getting together in May to go to the Chicago Botanic Garden. If that's a good weekend for you, great. If not, come anytime you want. Just D-Mail me and we'll swap e-mail addresses and phone numbers.

Opens the doors by itself??!! That's a great trick...just not to practical! You need to go on Dave Letterman and do his "Stupid Pet Tricks"...That is just too funny! I had a maltese/poodle mix that had cataracts....but again she was too small to get on the counters! My allergies aren't just reserved for cats, oh no, heaven forbid. Any dog that doesn't shed, doesn't bother me...poodles, maltese, bichon frise...and there is supposed to be something holistic about a chihuahua...they supposedly take the allergies away from you. I don't know, all I know is that they don't bother me. Get me around a pomeranian that looks suspiciously like a chihuahua, and I'll start sneezing. I've never seen a dog eat cat poo...but then again, I've never had a cat! My sister used to have a cocker spaniel that ate her own...she switched food and the dog never touched it again! My sister's got a lab that she just might be willing to let you have :o) My nephew spread peanut butter all over one of his raw hides and the dog ate a huge chunk and then had the runs for a week (she's at work, kids at school or working, he's in a big ol crate..sitting in it)! Not fun..and he eats her rugs, her shoes...I think he's about 8-9 months old now.

We talked before about going to the botanical garden. I wanted directions, remember? And you said something about a sack?? I'm not sure, my husband has surgery coming up, so things are really up in the air. 49 and cataract surgery.....and some sort of rare form....I'll keep it in mind and just have to wait and see.

I could have sworn I sent you a D-Mail with the link to the thread where a few of us were getting together the weekend of May 20 and 21.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/573075/

I would let you spend the night by me but you'd probably stop breathing with all the indoor cats and we can't have that. There's another gal who lives close who has a cat free house because her daughter has allergies. I'm sure Stacy would let you sleep with her and her husband so you didn't have to spend money on hotels.

Back to stupid pet tricks. We had a dog our vet told us had "separation anxiety". Norton chewed through a few of our doors when I went to work and we had to put him under at least once to remove splinters from his gums and his lips. We crated him but he did a number on the crate and broke teeth. Doggie prozak didn't work either. We replaced our doors with steel doors and that was the end of the "separation anxiety" other than one mishap where we were outside and he pulled his stake out of the ground along with the chunk of concrete we had set it in to try to follow me when I went over to a neighbor's hosue. That was the same dog that ate the fisher price little people, a 25' phone cord, and a whole kitchen rug. The fisher price little people always came out the other end and I must admit that we had unique poops around here because if they came out right side up, they stared at you. The other stuff he atehad to be surgically removed. Dr W said he had removed a few phone cords from other dogs before and car keys but he hadn't surgically removed an entire kitchen throw rug along with a length of intestine before. We took up all our throw rugs. The door opener is "Audrey". She's special. No wonder why she ended up in a rescue. Box of rocks probably walked herself and couldn't find her way home. We had that dog microchipped just in case and we never ever let that thing off a leash. We have 3 dogs right now and one we have to board when people come over because Lurch isn't too social and he's too big to be messing with although the other two are fine. I'm not into kittens or puppies per se. Audrey was the youngest we've ever had before at 9 months and Audrey is too much dog for me so we'll never accept one that young again. We'd rather pick up an adult because a Great Dane doing acrobatics at the end of a leash isn't a pretty sight. Our third dog flunked doggie classes a few times and still thinks its a lap dog. Shame its so darn big. All joking aside, your sister's dog probably isn't available. She'd probably part with her canine delinquent about as easily as we'd part with one of our canine delinquents... it wouldn't happen.

Let me know if you can visit the "Animal House".

Oops, third dog's name is Raechel. You'll like her so come on over and get your shrubs.

And I never asked for directions! Shame on me! Some day I'm going to find the super glue and glue my head back onto my shoulders. I get tired sometimes of sitting on it.

Yes, I probably would stop breathing. Unless of course you rid your house of all cats and dogs, did a very thorough cleaning, scrubbing walls, floors, shampooing carpets, then maybe I wouldn't stop breathing. That is so nice of you to offer your friends house for me to stay at, but that is just weird! :o) They don't know me, I could be an axe murderer for all they know!

I had a dog that had separation anxiety disorder. They wanted me to take her to a doggie psychologist in St. Louis. They wouldn't medicate her. I rescued her, but I couldn't help her. She just destroyed too much stuff. She didn't climb on counters, but she loved to climb on my end table. It's the one with all the deep gouges in it. Norton sounds like he was quite the challenge to handle. Surgically removed? May I say your dog was dumb?? You'd think they'd just know, wouldn't you? Lurch...like the Addams Family Lurch? Or Lurch because he lurches away from you? You've really got a lot of pets there! I think I'll like all your dogs, cats and whatever else you've got in the house..or outside the house. I'll just make sure to wash my hands before I touch my eyes. That usually helps :o)

My doggies name is Zoey. Took one look and not only was it love at first sight, but she just looked like a Zoey. She's 7. And she thinks she's a great dane. She's tried to attack Thor (sisters dog).

I will let you know when I can come. Let's wait for warmer weather? Not sure if I can dig out there yet...lol...

Terry

Ok yes I had to work today and I am not contributing to the Separation Anxiety problems. They are rooted in the same thing that makes dogs our best friends. They are pack animals and a pack NEVER separates from its members. If you are separated you are going to die according to a dog. So remember they are falling off a cliff and are going to die every time you leave. People need to PREVENT this by providing the puppy with a secure enviroment and teach them to accept departure. All humane society dogs have been abandoned and suffer from this. Much like many adopted/foster kids. We need to find a place (car, crate, den of some sort) to "help" with their natural response to being left by the pack. You need to understand when separated your ability to eat, survive predators, etc are all dependent on being in the PACK.
terryr those of you who have dogs recieve sensitivity whereas cats expect sensitivity from their slaves (servants). LOL
Your right I had to go to work this AM and had to save lives. But now I'm home. Glad to talk.

Hey Terry, I've got allergies so I know how it goes. You forgot one minor detail, the HVAC. You can clean an entire house but without cleaning all the duct work, the minute you turn on the heat or a/c, it blows it all back throughout the entire house.

Zoey is a cute name. Our animals come to us with names so we don't really get a choice as they are older when we get them.

Interestingly enough, we had picked out Norton as companionship for our countertop dog (Phoebe) who was going blind at the time and sleeping a lot. We thought he'd perk her up but she slept through the entire experience. We used a jumbo air freight crate for Norton until he ripped the door off by chewing through the plastic and that was when he broke teeth. We bought a jumbo metal crate and when I came home, his upper body was partially through bent and broken bars and he was stuck and had broken blood vessels in his eyes and needed stitches in his left arm pit. Don't ask, we have no idea how he did what he did given this dog weighed over 200 lbs and those bars seemed pretty darn strong to us. Neighbor came over with some sort of a tool to cut the bars and he even said he'd never seen anything like that before. All of this in the first month we owned him and after he chewed and clawed (yes, his toenail marks were in the doors too) through solid walnut doors. My husband started taking him to work with him and then I took him to my office on paperwork only days. Finally, we decided to pick out a companion dog for the companion dog we had picked out for our older dog. Yup, you heard that right. They found Raechel for us. She was 3 at the time and considerably more lively than poor old Phoebe... who by that time was sleeping through most of everything. Norton did a lot better after he was in our house about 3 months and after we got a third dog.

Phoebe finally passed away at about age 12 and they called us to consider Lurch (as in Addams family). Definitely not an attractive animal but good with kids, dogs, and cats. We were sold. He's never done much wrong other than to shake his head and leave hangers on my walls and act unpredictable around new people particularly men. He doesn't care for new people so we just board him any time anyone new is coming over. After Norton passed away last year at only 11 years of age, they called us with Audrey and by then we were used to having 3 so we figured what the heck. And that is how the puppy THING ended up over here. Did I mention they lied to us and told us she was an adult? And now... Raechel is over 10 years old so I suspect we will be getting a new dog within a few years so anytime any one wants to teach me how to teach my flunkies how to accept departure, please just jump right in. We flunk miserably in that department. Forgot to mention that Raechel suffered a little bit from separation anxiety so we crated her after she chewed the bottom volute to one of our staircases. The crate worked well for her but she's only around 100 lbs. I do not like drugging animals. It seems to make them groggy, agitated, and defensive. I wouldn't be interested in going the doggie prozak route again.

Oh yes, the ductwork! But since most of mine are rusted thru and held together with duct tape and the HVAC guy we hired, who we thought was going to replace all the above mentioned duct work, but didn't and then about ripped my head off when I asked him about replacing them.....and on and on it still goes.....

Norton sounded like a very uhmm interesting dog? And I love how you say Raechel is only around 100 lbs. Zoey weighs maybe 5 lbs. Maybe 5 1/2 with all the carbs (she loves bread) she's been eating.

I watched my 8 yr old nephew last night, he stayed the night. My sister came around noon to get him and she was really mad. She starts telling us how Thor wanted out around 7 this morn, she didn't want to get up, but figured she'd go ahead and put him out. She'd wake up in 1/2-1 hour and bring him back in then. She woke up after an hour and went downstairs and out the back door...and there was Thor. Just laying in the back yard....with? What? Ohhh....with the cord for her 2 man hot tub laying there in betweenst his paws. Upon further inspection, she found that he chewed the plug off! She hasn't had the hot tub for 2 months. She was pretty upset and she called the place to inquire about getting a new cord and plug....and she asked the person she was speaking to if they knew anyone who wanted a dog. I'm telling you, she isn't very good with dogs that destroy her stuff. So maybe, just maybe........

Terry

She should consider investing in a crate. It will be the best $150 bucks she will ever spend. She will never regret it. I have a metal one down in the basement that we bought for Raechel that was only around $100 but we don't use it any longer as she has long outgrown her "separation" anxiety. We're hanging on to it because I swear one of these days I am going to get a pretty dog like a Collie or a Golden Retriever.

What happened with Norton was just a screwball thing. My vet said he had only had a few other dogs that had done that in the course of his entire practice spanning decades. Norton was not a happy camper because we had to put a huge cone thing around his neck for just over a week so he'd leave his stitches alone. Most dogs are happy to be in their crates when their owners go to work for the day. They feel secure. We have a jumbo crate for Audrey right now and every once in a while, we pop her in to let her know she is "off duty" or that she needs to "chill out". We crate her maybe once a month when winds are really high outside (makes her bark insanely) and branches hit the windows or when somebody she doesn't know stops in (makes her run around groaning and moaning and whining with a big NylaBone Kong thing hanging out of her mouth that is all slimed up that she rams in people's faces to try to get them to play with her). We are used to her incessant barking as well as her repertoire of sounds that she makes when she runs around with those kong toy things hanging out of her mouth and don't hear it any longer and most of our family and personal friends are used to her but some people can't think straight when she doesn't shut up with that bone hanging out of her mouth so we lead her happy rear in to the crate and she takes a nice nap for an hour or so.

Seriously, tell your sister to consider a crate. Maybe Freeserve has one for pick up. I've heard of a lot of people getting excellent freebies for the cost of gas to go pick something up otherwise PetSmart has sturdy crates.

Amen. Dogs are denners they like the security of a den. AKA crate.

She has a crate! He sleeps in it at night and during the day while she's at work and kids are either in school or working. When he wants her to get up, he wants it now. His bark is really loud and it really resonates thru her house. Hard for her to ignore. He's got a ton of toys and he chews, it seems, nonstop. He's ruined most of his toys, so she's bought more. Thor hasn't gotten to the point of liking his crate. Oh and the bedrooms are all upstairs and he's not allowed upstairs, so his crate is in the parlor. He never goes in it, just to go in it. But my dog does. Zoey doesn't like my sister (she chases her), and Zoey goes crazy when she comes over. She barks non-stop....from within her crate. My sister can't get her that way! She also has the collar to stop barking and the collar to keep him within her yard.......she muzzles him when she walks him, he wants to walk her...etc. She's just having a tough time during his puppy/chewing phase. She's already had him thru dog obedience......the list really goes on and on.....I think he's just more than she thought he would be.

Puppies, thank God that God made them cute or nobody would want to put up with them. My husband and I don't particularly care for puppies or kittens unless... they are owned by somebody else. Exclude Audrey though since we got duped on that one. She's got a big mouth but she's ours. We refer to her as BarkOMatic.

Try a Kong toy or one of those huge Nyla bones. Should take him over a month to destroy one of those. PetSmart has them. They really do last.

I know she has a Kong toy for him but I'm not sure about the Nyla Bone, I'll pass it on to her. I have some for Zoey, but he'd just eat the whole thing in one bite :o)