Oxydendrum arboreum seed germination help needed

I've got some seed for this tree. This is one I've never tried to germinate before. I know what Dirr says about it which wasn't all that discouraging barring the fact that I don't have misters.

I found the following information here-
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/Volume_2/oxydendrum/arboreum.htm

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Oxydendrum+arboreum&CAN=LATIND "The plant prefers light (sandy) and medium (loamy) soils and requires well-drained soil. The plant prefers acid soils and can grow in very acid soil. It can grow in semi-shade (light woodland) or no shade. It requires moist soil.[/quote] from same site [quote]Surface sow the seed in a shady place in a greenhouse either as soon as it is ripe in the autumn or in late winter. Germination is variable. Put outside in a shady position as soon as it germinates and overwinter in a frame. When they are large enough to handle, prick the seedlings out into individual pots and grow them on for at least their first winter. Plant them out into their permanent positions in late spring or early summer, after the last expected frosts. The seedlings are susceptible to damping off and so should be kept well-ventilated and should not be over-watered."

http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant100305.stm
'Persnickety propagation
JLPN Inc. in Salem, Ore., experimented with sourwood propagation for four years before the company had a successful crop.
"It took a lot of time to have a really successful crop," said JLPN owner John Lewis. "We had several crop failures before we got it right. It's a difficult crop, but it's extremely rewarding."
After trying several methods to propagate sourwood from seed and experimenting with soils, JLPN now has several seedlings available for sale. Seed is very small and fine -- about the size of a fingernail sliver, Lewis said.
"It's a very sensitive crop during germination. If you miss one watering or allow it to dry out, it's dead," Lewis said.
It takes about six months for seedlings to get big enough to transplant without killing them, he said. JLPN sells 2- to 3-foot, 1-year seedlings. The 1-year seedlings can be shifted up into a 1-, 2- or 3-gallon container.'

And last but not least from the Tom Clothier site http://tomclothier.hort.net/page10.html
"Sourwood ,zone= 5 , sow @ 70ºF on peat moss"

Anyone out there germinate Sourwood successfully? I'm not seeing any mention of a cold/moist stratification period being required.

Thanks much,
Lauren

Anytime you're dealing with seeds the size of dust it's an uphill battle. Give me acorns and hickory nuts any day! But the advice on the ibiblio site above sounds right on IMHO.

Guy S.

OK, Canadian Sphagnum Peat it is for a medium and I'm going to stick them out in the garage for 30 days and go from there being as how it's late winter right about now. Thanks Guy.

Hi Equilizer,

I've germinated them before, but I don't remember the details. But I think it was straightforward 70F germination. Like so many Ericaceous plants, the seeds are like dust, and the seedlings are like green dust. Use a very fine medium such as Pro Mix, which is peat based. Keep evenly moist. Fertilize with liquid fish.

Scott

The Canadian Sphagnum Peat has a lower ph. I can also run it through a food processor which helps a little bit. I think I'll try two trays. One of CSP and one of Pro-Mix. I can stick the trays on coils to raise the soil temps.

The seeds looked like microscopic lint to me and that was even with those silly reading glasses of mine and my magnifying glass. I am fumbling for a means by which to reduce the static electricity within the baggie to be able to get more seed out of it. You'd think by now I would have taken the time to figure out how to deal with ultra fine seed in baggies but I never did.

Now you got me on the liquid fish. As in the fertilizer product Drammatic? I've got that somewhere around here and have used it before.

4000 to 12,000 seeds per gram.

I'll collect a few more pounds for you.

Re soil medium...
Since these have a tendency to damp off I *strongly* recommend NOT peat-based compost but vermiculite for the top ½" of growing medium. This virtually eliminates damping off as a problem. It is the only guaranteed way that I have found of beating damping off. Pot should be enclosed in a polythene cover to prevent drying out. Otherwise good luck...
Mike

I place my trays under a metal halide which provides the broadest spectrum of light in my opinion. I also train oscillating fans over my trays to keep air ciruclation up. Believe it or not, I use a round plastic kiddie pool to germinate some seed and water wicks up into the trays placed int he kiddie pool so as long as I maintain the water level in the kiddie pool at 1", I have no problems with trays drying out. So far, I have not had problems with damping off lately either but I attributed that to increased air movement in the area. There have been times that I have rinsed sand and placed it in my microwave on high to be able to add a fine layer of sand to the top of germination mixes as a deterrent. I've also added a little cinnamon powder. Never thought of using vermiculite but it would serve the same purpose and be easier for me to get my hands on at this time of year. Thanks for mentioning it. I'll add a layer of vermiculite to the top of the germination mix.
Lauren

I have never seen vermiculite in a grade fine enough for Oxydendron seed. Not that it doesn't exist, I don't know, but I have never seen it. Ericaceous plant seeds all need light to germinate, so make sure they are on the surface of the medium and in a well-lit area.

I have never had (Gawd, I hate to say this) a problem with damping off. Usually I use Pro-Mix in trays with a plastic cover until I get germination. After that I remove the lid, mist spray with a weak solution of liquid fish emulsion as a fertilizer frequently (and also bottom water with it), then as the plants get bigger I either put them outside or keep them under lights, depending on the weather. I allow the medium to almost fully dry out between waterings. I do run a fan constantly in my basement to keep the air circulating, and I never allow standing water anywhere in my basement. I have produced a gazillion seedling trees, shrubs, and rock garden perennials this way. I suspect the misting with fish emulsion may in some strange way be anti-fungal.

I would not worry about the pH of the medium too much. Pro-Mix is pH adjusted to about neutral, which is a little high, but straight sphagnum peat moss has a pH of about 4.0, which is too low even for sourwood. In soil, pH matters because it effects the availability of nutrients, but in soil-less mix it is not so important because you will be supplying all the nutrients the plant needs in the form of fish emulsion.

Scott

Scott, can I have a link to the fish emulsion prodcut you are using please?

Boat of us.

Oh, Ken, that's a groaner!

But after all of this, I'm starting to get enthused -- I think maybe I'd like to try starting some Oxy seeds too, maybe next year. The power of suggestion . . .

Guy S.

I just buy mine at the local garden center. It is not too uncommon. I think AM Leonard sells it by mail-order.

Scott

I'm going to experiment a little bit and start the seed this weekend in 4 different trays utilizing a little bit of everyone's suggestions from above other than that all seed will be sown on top of my germination mixes as Ericaceous seed must have light to germinate. Oh what fun!

I experimented using 3 trays. One with Pro-Mix, one with Schultz Potting Mix topped with rinsed sand, and one with Miracle Grow Potting Mix topped with vermiculite. I was going to use a 4th tray with pulverized Canadian Sphagnum Peat but I was out of food storage containers and didn't feel like running out to pick up more.

You can't see the seed in the images before I sealed the trays off but they are there. I purchased Bonide Fish Emulsion because it was a brand that I knew.

Now, it's time to wait and see which tray does best. I'll leave them out in the garage for about a month and then I'll haul them out and raise the soil temps.