QUESTION ON MULCHING AND LASAGNA

I have what may be a couple of very stupid questions, but here goes:

I am creating a new garden with lots of planting bed in a large area. The soil has been loosened by a digger I hired in December. I have a lot of 3 month old manure which I would like to put on the soil where the beds will be. Question No. 1 - Can I put 6 inchs of this manure on the soil, and when I plant a plant (no edibles) can I move the manure out of the way and plant without fear of roots getting burned? Question No. 2 - I would like to layer manure, straw, etc on the beds but I am puzzled because the layer would be quite a bit higher than the plants in the ground. When I hear people say they put 6 inches on mulch on their beds, do they put it around the perennials rather than over the top? Am I supposed to plant my plants a little higher than the original soil level (and adding soil around the plant) to allow for the added layers? Question No. 3 - will all these layers increase the level of the soil permanently (which is what I would like), or does it all compost down to very little?

Apologies for these questions, but I can't seem to figure it out. Maybe I'm missing something here. I have never mulch/lasagna gardened before and would like to start. Also the area is just too big for me to dig it all in.

Many thanks for your patience and advice.

Sue

Sue;

Firstly, no questions are dumb. (Inversely, dumb equals not questioning.) If I recall the questions I asked only two years ago, I feel silly, but no one is born with knowledge. A courage to ask questions is how you become an expert. Anyone who does not ask, ask, ask because they are afraid of looking stupid will stay that way! No need to apologize; you are inspiring, and I think that you will do well.
I however, will apologize if I am too long winded!

#1: What kind of manure is it? Most types should be mixed into the soil if possible, and three months should not burn it.

#2: Usually, heavy mulches are around taller plants or there are graduated "bowls" in the mulch where the plants stick out, but their roots are stretched out under the straw, etc. Yes, around the perennials.

#3: When organic materials break down, they are less volume. -Depending on the material. Example: If you took a bunch of leaves and composted them down, the resulting compost would probably become one forth of the volume. Manure, I guess, would be about a half of its original volume when it is incorporated into the soil. It will make the soil (virtually) permanently taller, which is very good.

My question: Does the area have any plants already?

The whole lasagna idea is fun, and works for some folks in some places, but layers are called "interface," which blocks water and air movement, two things that roots really need.
It is good to break up the "lines" between layers, lest they mat down. Part of the "Lasagna" thing calls for interface- layers of newspaper to smother weeds, which is great, but one must realize that weeds are plants, and so are the vegetables and flowers that are trying to grow on it!

Now, seeing how the ideal thing- forking/ tilling/ digging- is a lot of work for you, the less back-breaking method is to make very fine layers- as thin as possible so that they are barely layers at all. If an area suddenly has a bunch of new organic material, (manure, straw, compost) worms will be attracted to it and do a fine rototilling job while they aerate the soil and draw the organic material into the soil structure- and that's really good.

Also, when you work on your new garden, try to step on the soil as little as possible. The best thing is to have some scrap boards or even just straw-covered path to stay on. Roots do not like stepped-on soil.

Best wishes and God bless,
K. James

I made my first interbay mulch beds last fall and can't tell you how impressed I am with the results.

I don't believe the newsprint (or cardboard may be used instead) kills vegetation not by blocking air but rather by blocking sunlight. (No phoptsynthesis = no life). Paper is permeable to air, especially when wet. In my research I found that the difference between a lasagna garden and interbay mulch bed is that the ibm bed is topped with burlap to increase moisture retention, block some but not all light, and I can tell you that it worked well. I was actually trying to improve existing old beds where I had removed very old disease ridden roses. I left some perennials in place and built the layers around them, then topped with burlap with holes cut out around the perennials. That was in Oct and now those beds are covered with several inches of beautiful compost. Very little of the original ingredients (newspaper, grass clippings, and dry leaves) are identifiable now. I'm thrilled! I want to make more beds! I have also read that you can plant immediately in the beds if you push the composting material away from the plant to prevent burning. I had some 20 year old daffodils in the bebed, too. They were completely covered with all those layers including several layers of paper; I figured I would just let them die and compost in place and I would replace with something else. (I hate the look of that dying foliage every year). A couple of weeks ago I noticed a few mountains arising from under the burlap. I pulled it back and there were those daffs, bout 4 or 5 inches tall and healthy as could be. Our early winter was extremely warm, and all the perennials looked extremely healthy. I would post a picture but it's 6 degrees outside now and the beds are covered with snow. If anyone is interested you could send me a d-mail and I could send or post a picture when the snow melts.

Sorry this got so long!

Karen

Karen,
Thank you for your clear descriptions.
I think I see what you mean- you plant things right into the ground, but surround them with a think mulch whose resulting "tea" fertilizes the plants. The burlap cover makes an area more accomodating to the composting process. The composted material is left on top of the original soil, where the plant roots no doubt surface to lace it. A sort of major top-dressing.

I think this method is more equitable for wetter areas (like Prudence's) than mine. Such a process would not be as doable here, as our clay is more impermeable and the mulch, even with burlap, will dry out badly. Other problems I can see with it are that if there are existing roots in the area, covering them with the new material can reduce the oxygen and harm the plant (especially birch). Also, There is an interface between the organic material and the soil that will take much time to dissolve, and until it does, it is a place where water may run off because of the difference in porosities between the materials. I think it is not as much amending the soil as providing an area on top of it. It reminds me of what happens here when landscapers do not amend the soil, but put down a bunch of wood mulch; plants end up growing in that thin layer of mulch rather than the soil, and if it ever dries out, the plants entire root area dessicates.

If a person wants to wait for it and is sure that there will never be an event where the top layer dries out, It sounds like a doable plan, albeit flawed.

I still think that deeper roots are better, but I understand we all have to make successions from a more ideal situation some days.
K. James

Hi James - thanks for your reply.

You asked what kind of manure it was. It is a mix of sheep/cow/horse with straw. I have been putting some on the new beds with stredded newspaper underneath, but some of the manure appears pretty fresh.

You asked if the area has any plants in it yet. The answer is no. It is a new plot I am doing from scratch. The thing is, I feel like time is against me because I would like to plant fairly soon. As I want the beds to be raised about 6 inches, I was thinking of planting 6 inches above soil level, and then putting loads of soil/compost around it. Then mulch the areas around the plants so that it all ends up at the same height. I would keep adding to it until the height was permanent. I also want to plant some ground covers but how do you mulch those?!

I know my thoughts on doing it this way are all round the wrong way, but I really don't want to leave the plot for a whole year. I have designed the bed so that I don't need to walk on them which I know will compact the soil. The soil is clayey but not too bad and has great potential. I'm hoping the stredded paper I put down first will attract the worms whom I hope will do the 'digging in' for me.

I appreciate your help on this James.

Sue

The manures can be added as soon as possible, I think. With clay, I'm afraid, it is especially important to mix it is, just make sure there is not a fine line between it and your amendments. For worms, you can also dig small, deep, narrow holes and put in raw kitchen composts, as I do not think that just newspaper will attract them.

I agree- it is hard to leave a plot for a whole year!
K. James

Kendal, I can't believe you EVER ask 'dumb' questions. You've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know! Thanks for all your input & advice. I am learning everyday!

I tried the Lasagna method where I had to raise a bed because of heavy wet soil. I had heard Pat Lanza speak on the subject and thought "what the heck, it is worth a try".

She mentions it is important to soak the newspaper overnight to get it really mushy and I have discovered she is correct. When I tried just wetting the papers it did create that impenetratable layer that dried out quickly. When it was soaked however it stayed moist for an extended period; long enough for the worms to move in and do their thing. I layered a couple inches of soggy paper, with a couple inches of compost and repeated this for 2 more layers. The soil looks and feels very rich in the spots where I did this but I have not actually had it tested to see what the pH might be; that would be interesting.
Because I built these beds on top of the old ones I did not disturb the soil and the weed seeds did not germinate. New weeds are starting to find the place and I am sure they will be a big problem again soon. Weeds are always there to harass us.

It has been over a year now and the soil has settled by about a 1/3 so I will be adding more compost. I don't think it will be necessary to do the paper thing again in these areas but as I make new beds I will use mushy newspapers.

ardesia, When I soaked my newspaper for a few minutes, I found it very hard to work with. After a night of soaking isn't seperating it & getting it down flat a real hassle?

Yes, it can be difficult to work with. I soaked whole sections (even editions) of papers and was able to pick up the whole thing and plop it down where I needed it. It also helped to soak the stuff near where you will be using it.

I had some plastic bins that were very suitable for the purpose; they are those gray bins that waiters and busboys use to clear your table in restaurants. Any plastic bin or container where the newspapers could lay flay would work fine.
This stuff will be goopy but getting it down perfectly flat is not much of an issue. You are going to cover it with good compost and or/mulch anyway.

Suggest you go the the library and read Pat Lanza's book; I think it is called "Lasagna Gardening" or something that sounds like that. When I heard her speak her system sounded too simplistic to work but I have an area that can only be inproved by more truckloads loads of compost than I can afford. Using the available papers and smaller amounts of compost has made things work for me.

Me too. I became sold on using newspaper 2 seasons ago. I just never soaked it that long. I will try the long soaking now though 'cause my wife gets annoyed when the newspapers dry & blow around (in spite of my wetting and covering them-barely)
Newspaper is also good for saving on mulch. The newspaper with a thin covering of mulch is a cheaper & more effective weed barrier than 3-4 inches of mulch, plus feeding the soil.