Ammending clay soil - Help

Hello everyone,
I am a Geogia girl with a yard full of heavy red clay. Any suggestions on the right types of ammendments to add to the soil before planting? I have been doing some research but there are a wide range of suggestions - sand, sand with mulch, composte, peat moss... you get the picture. If anyone has a special "recipe" I would be very grateful to know. Thanks.

Dear Gliz:

I moved to western NC 5 years ago and over that time I have been developing my own coping skills for living on clay. There's clay soil, and there's CLAY. You have to ask: is there something growing there now, or did someone scrape everything away and build a new house and lay down sod on top of subsoil?

If you have clay soil in which things ARE growing, you may be able to amend with enough organic material of two types and get plants which don't mind heavy mineral soil to grow: around here we use 1)milled pine bark and 2)something like compost/cow manure (i.e. high in nitrogen). The milled pine bark is low in nitrogen but works as a soil conditioner, improving the texture of the soil without adding nutrient per se. We are also calcium deficient and acidic, so we add ground limestone if we're planting non-acid-lovers.

If you have clay which hardly deserves the name "soil", as is so often found around newly constructed buildings, the best route is to accept the clay below and build raised beds which have drainage material such as gravel in the bottom. (You can see pictures of ours in the Soil and Composting thread.) Busting it up and trying to work in enough amendments for gardening can destroy your spine and your spirit.

Like all gardeners, you will simply have to forgo some plants that will never be happy where you live. For the greatest variety, the raised bed garden is the best option on clay. A strong back (yours or someone else's) and the right plants will be needed if you are going to dig up clay and dig in amendments.

Enough organic matter can mean very fertile clay. Quikly: Don't use sand or peat. (or gypsum) They drive this into you in Master Gardener classes.

Just organic matter: horse manure, pine chips, bark, leaves, compost... Garney is right about coarse material helping texture (structure). As much as possible. High organic matter will make your plants more forgiving in many ways, even accomodating many plants that "just won't grow" there.

My own clay is extremely fertile in everything but Nitrogen, but is heavy and suffocates plants. Organic matter fixes that.
K. James

Thank you MissGarney and JamesCO. Your comments and suggestions show that you have much experience in dealing with this problem. We do have a new home and as we are creating our planting beds we have discovered very pour drainage due to the heavy clay. I think the suggestion of raising the beds is a good idea. We have a tiller so working in the organic matter should be fairly easy- in the smaller areas. I'm so glad I checked this discussion list first as my husband was about to buy a load of sand. I have heard of a product called Clay Cutter. Have your heard of this, any comments?

There have been many discussions here about clay. (Which does not render this one useless, but you might want to read another)
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/499950/

I too have horrid red clay here in VA. And rocks. Lots of rocks.

After a futile attempt at rototilling, I finally gave up & just started dumping my loads & loads of horse manure & used bedding on the garden area. I now have lovely deep dark rich loam/compost for planting in that area. No tilling, no turning, no nothing, except dumping over the winter.

That's what we do here, too, basically. All the grass clippings, extra straw, and a foot or more of (shredded) leaves go into the garden. Even chopped kitchen waste. Then we turn the chickens "out " into the garden to do their rototilling and additional fertilizing. But b/c the chicken manure's quite "hot," I have to keep them out of the garden after next week to prepare for Spring.

Spring! Spring!

Just curious James; why no gypsum?

It is inorganic, I say. I would have to pull out a text to find the chemist's explanation why it is very bad... I think that is a apparent quick-fix for only certain kinds of clay, but detrimental in the long run. Dang, I wish I could recall... I will try to find out.

I do know that sand and clay only work well together when there is a majority of sand and there is silt present as well. But if one adds sand to clay, it is literally concrete.

The point is to build a soil stucture and give it porosity. This is done in nature via orgainc matter, and that is how plants are designed. And after all, it is plants that are the reason for all of this.

(Way to go, Breezy. By the way, "loam" describes what kind of inorganic base a soil has, what you have is scientifically known as Heaven-on-Earth! ...or humusy soil.)
K. James

Funny, I use it all the time because it is a naturally occurring (organic) product. In my case it helps (although very slowly) the type of clay we have by binding the particles. It also helps mitigate the salt in my marshy soil. It also provides calcium without changing the pH which is helpful in utilizing other soil nutrients. I also use greensand when I can get it.
For me, the combination of compost and the rock minerals works well to amend my heavy soil.

I LOVE greensand. I can't use enough to change soil structure (that would be a lot) but to provide longterm potash. My garden flowered and fruited wonderfully last year.

I love clay because it allows me to Xeriscape more effectivly here in the dry west. I have 2 beds I have experimented on by using heavy black clay from a glacial source in the valley here. I have combined it with lots of compost, bark, composted mint, and pond sediment. It is only a year old soil but it has done just what I wanted. I have to water it only once weekly and even the plants I have in there that require good drainage are thriving. I think it has a lot to do with the trace minerals that are more available from the clay. Please note some clays are terrible. We have the old Glacial Lake Missoula clay that is white and very alkaline here and I dig that out and use it where I want roots not to penetrate. IE under Sumac and Bamboo. The other bed I used the clay is my herb garden and it too is thriving. Seen here in picture

Gorgeous, Soferdig! wow.

Triple Fancy. Excellent rockwork- is that granite? I see you have made perfect use of it to border the turf. And, what kind of bamboo do you grow in zone 4b?
K. James

The rock is from my neighbors foundation blast out (big ones) and the rest are from various local collections over 6 years. I brought the border rocks from Great Falls area. They are unique sandstone formations from the last glacial run off that created the Missouri R. When they dig foundations these partially layered rocks are dumped and used for landfills. I bring them home 3/4 ton at a time 50+ loads to be used in the garden as a border to let me high speed mow the lawn. My lawn mower will get up to 10 mph and I like to get back to the garden not mow. So all my beds 1 1/2 acre of them are bordered by this sandstone laminate. The granite ones are what make up my dry stacked beds which I continue to build as I gather soil and build as I need new ones. You can see much of the garden on Soferdig's diary garden tours.http://davesgarden.com/journal/ed/

Awesome garden; you have done a fantastic job.
I am experiencing major rock envy. Not many rocks on a marshy island.

We've got a lot of rocks here. My husband is totally opposed to using them in the garden. I have used stone to make low edges for beds, but he draws the line there. NO ROCK GARDENS! "Why?" you may ask. The answer is "SNAKES!!!!" He can't even look at photographs of snakes without getting goosebumps. We have lots of snakes, and they love rocks.

What a round-about reason to not have rocks. But yes, they like the warmth at night and with the sun... There are scorpions under most sandstone in the desert here!

We have snakes, and hornets living under our rocks. Even the occasional frog adds to the beauty of the whole area. I love the hornets because one day I was leaning off my deck looking at my Laceleaf Spirea and I thought that it had scale or aphids because it had small green aphid like buds. About every 1 to 2 minutes a wasp visited the site checking for food and flew away only after complete exam revealed no aphids. I used to have lots of early aphid dammage on new growth. Not last year lots of wasps.

Gliz, I stumbled on this forum and couldn't help replying. I have GA clay also, zone 7b, and I'm learning to deal with it the best I can. I've raised some beds with lots of compost & mulch to help my winter viola and grasses survive. In October I planted Iris in a raised bed also. In the raw clay I've tried a couple of trees. I want to keep them as natural as possible but I don't know whether they will make it or not. I'm really on a fishing expedition at this point. I planted a Carolina Sapphire and I've been deep watering it several times a week (per nursery directions) and so far it's doing good. We've only been here for 4 months (after a lifetime in Florida) and I still have most of my plants in pots. Since I was a 'tropical' gardener, many of them will remain in pots indefinately, but I'm trying to buy native plants now to place directly in the ground. I appreciate your question and I'll follow it to see what you come up with. Maybe I can learn from you, which is always my goal!

teateacher, You sound like you are getting a handle on the problem so far. I too and going to raise my beds and also add organic matter (read JamesCo's comments above). Trees in this area do well, maybe because they are planted deep and if you notice, the clay layer goes down a foot and then there is a more "normal" looking, slightly sandy layer. Anyway, I have Crape Mrytle, River
Birch, Willow Oak and Leyand Cyress all doing well planted directly in the soil. Maybe I am just lucky with trees.
I would like to recommend a book "Month-By-Month Gardening in Georgia" by Walter Reeves and Erica Glasener. It has become a valuable resource and for a new resident to this state, you should find it very helpful. I bought this book at a local Pike's Nursery but it is also found in bookstores and Amazon.com.
Finally, these forums are wonderful and the participants all have great suggestions and advice. Fee free to d-mail me if you have any specific questions. Maybe we can share our spring planting stories. Good Luck.

Last year one of the gardening magazines had an article entitled, "The Ten Best Plants for Clay". I kept it, of course, and even planted one of the recommended plants. Now I can't remember which magazine it was or where I stashed the article.

Found it.
Garden Gate's Top Picks: 10 Clay-loving Plants

1. Quamash (Camassia leichtlinii)
2. Martagon lily (Lilium martagon)
3. Joe-Pye Weed (Eupatorium purpureum maculatum)
4. Swordleaf inula (Inula ensifolia)
5. Bugleweed (Ajuga reptans)
6. Obedient plant (Physostegia virginiana)
7. Flowering quince (Chaenomeles japonica)
8. Slender deutzia (Deutzia crenata nakiana)
9. White ash (Fraxinus americana)
10. Flowering currant (Ribes sanguineum)

Wonderful; Thanks, Miss! Ajuga certainly is a weed, even in clay. I wonder what makes these plants best for clay, as the differences in clay are that it has a good micronutrient content, but has poor porosity for water and oxygen. Perhaps low-oxygen to the roots plants? Or plants with tough roots for growing through it?

Pick Joe Pye Weed and you dont need to buy another plant. It took over my clay bed! I love it but it keeps me a pulling.

Thanks MissGarney! What a helpful list. Flowering quince is beautiful. Whatever properties clay soil has to make these plants thrive I'm all for it. Joe Pye Weed certainly is an interesting plant. Checked in out in Plant Scout. Many different colors. Hope is it also critter resistant. The deer in this area love to snack on pretty things.

Gliz, Add Hydrangea to the toughest clay plants. I'd heard they grew well in GA from friends and when we move here the only live plant in my front yard was one solitary hydrangea plant. During our transition I didn't do anything to it and it froze... but already has new sprouts all over the dead looking branches. Now I'm concerned that the new growth will freeze, but I'm going to just leave it alone and see what happens. I've NEVER been successful growing hydrangea in Florida even though I've tried on numerous occassions. I'm afraid to touch this one because I'm afraid I'll jinx it but it seems to be a native survivor. I read that you should never prune hydrangea and after seeing all the new growth up and down these branches, I understand why. Pruning would have taken the new sprouts. I also had a Cypress vine in my back yard that was beautiful when I moved in but was leveled by the first frost to ground level. I'm hoping it comes back since I don't think previous owners would have spent time protecting anything fragile. This vine was pretty large, so I'm trusting it will return in the spring.

I've also seen a lot of camellia growing in clay. I have one in a pot that is just starting to open it's first buds this week. I can hardly wait! I will plant it in the ground after it blooms and the weather warms but I didn't want to risk it dropping these first buds so I've left it potted.

I bought the Month-by-Month book last summer before we moved here. I've used it some but think I will get more use from it once I actually HAVE some plants to maintain.

The book I have become addicted to is 'Tough Plants for Southern Gardens' by Felder Rushing. I LOVE this book and take it with me when I go plant shopping! I bought it randomly at Amazon.com but have seen it on several 'best' list since then. The problem I have with Tough Plants is that most of my 'tropicals' obviously are not on his list because he only list TOUGH plants.. so I've had to look elsewhere for adaptablity procedures for 7b. My hard lesson has been that most of them 'won't' adapt and must be house plants, which is not my strength. I agree with you regarding trees. If I can plant something in the ground, it usually grows. The minute I bring a pot inside, the poor plant just takes a deep gasp and passes on!

Hi teateacher,
You sound like you may have an "endless summer" hydrangea which is popular in this neck of the woods. Grows flowers on both old and new growth so pruning is not recommended! If you are concerned about a hard frost which is possible until April 8 (in Georgia) cover the plant and make sure you have pine straw protecting the root system. I think it will survive the winter ok.
I love camillias and have ordered two from Bluestone Perennials - one of the recommended online nurseries. This will be my first attempt with flowering vines so I am glad to hear that they do well in clay soil but this year I will make the effort to either raise or ammend all the beds I will be planting. Our yard is flat so drainage is a big problem - young, tender root systems will drown. We lost a lot of plants last year - we're newbie gardeners. I've ordered a load of compost (starting our own compost bin is a project for another day), and with our rototiller, hubby and I should have lots of fun playing in the dirt. Thanks for the book suggestion. I will check it out. I'm hoping that "tough plants" include drought resistant and critter resistant plants. Four deer walked into my backyard the other day and one was wearing a bib and carrying a fork -lol. :)

You could certainly have a bodacious garden in clay soil just using the many plants that grow around here without any help: Buddleja, mountain laurel, butterfly weed, eupatorium (Joe Pye), carolina phlox, the narcissus which naturalize easily, Solidago (goldenrod), a locally wild purple aster, daylilies....none of these plants are fussy or demanding in any way, and of course there are more. But most of us are greedy, and we want more more more!

I couldn't resist sending my 'FIRST' camellia flower. At this point in my life there aren't a lot of 'first' left so we just celebrate what we have!


my edit was a typo... you'd think a 'teacher' would know how to spell, huh!

This message was edited Feb 3, 2006 2:50 PM

WOW!

Gliz, the "Tough Plants" book is exactly what it says. He describes these plants as ones that you see growing for decades in an old graveyard without attention and also around homesteads that have been abandon for years. Now, THAT is my kind of gardening. Good luck with the rototiller. I'm not that adventurous yet. sr

This message was edited Feb 3, 2006 2:51 PM

The teacher reference is nice, but what I want to know about it the tea!- have you tried to grow Camellia sinensis and have your own Pekoe?

Lovely flower that; classy colors.
K. James

Humm....JamesCo, I never thought about that. No, the boring truth is.... I am a teacher and seldom seen without a glass of 'tea' in my hand, thus the name "teateacher". I tell people I'm not old enough for coffee!

I have a question to tea drinkers. Do you get as addicted as we coffee people? Can you start your day without "a spot of tea"? I have always tried to drink tea but with no acid stomach and nausea like coffee gives me I feel left out.

I think folks are less likely to get addicted to tea. It doesn't hit that instant-need spot that Americans want with coffee.

My day rolls forward like a drunken caribou in a giant oil barrel if I don't get my cuppa in the morning. When I have a bad day, the first thing I run to is to turn on the teapot. The roughest days, I crave Lapsang Souchong. I had forgotten my box of it until recently in the second week of school... Teabag references began to show up in my artwork...
Funny though, when I am traveling and forget to have tea (not addicted?-) I get headaches (but dependent!)

What is your favorite brand, Teach? Hot tea or the blasphenous iced? Really, you should look up the process and try out your camellia bush.
Kenton

I hope that my herb garden will teach me to drink a lot more tea with a lot less caffeine lol. About the soil ammending. I read somewhere several years ago that if a person is starting with the typical hard red clay that its a little much to think you can all of a sudden just turn it around. But there is a short term method to help get it in growing order, and that is by planting a lot of very deep rooted annuals and they will help break the soil up and also feed it. You can buy cow manure at most garden places and home depot for cheap and just pour it on (but keep it off of the herbs!!!) and eventually over a couple of year with adding available mulch such as leaves and compost it will make a big difference.

Apologies for this. We needed more off-topic pictures, of course.
I was supposed to be painting a still-life of some jars on a cloth, but one can see the two biggest things on my mind:

Tea-drinking not so addictive? Talk to anyone in Great Britain lately? What about Asia?

I don't hate my clay so much. Amended, it's nice stuff: nutrients and water don't go wandering off.

Hey, what's with this "blasphemous iced"? You guys just don't know how wonderful good southern sickeningly sweet tea can taste in August. LOL

Remember, the only tea farm in America is here in good 'ol SC. We grow lots of Camellia sinensis here. Never tried to make it myself as all my camellias are japonicas and sasanquas but have seen it done on tea tours. Recently I ordered a pink flowered sinensis; maybe this time next year I'll have some "homegrown".