Can a farmer join in?

Now that we've reconstituted Horseshoe, let's indeed do some farming talk.

We're not really "homesteaders" in what I think of as the general understanding of the term, the farm we've been on for the last 34 years has been under constant cultivation for over a hundred years. We were told by a neighbor that before we started here, the rabbits had to pack a lunch if they were going to cross this place, so the culitvation wasn't always done in a productive manner, but is has been a dairy farm nonetheless.

We have raised two daughters, lots of gardens, all those cows and the hay that feeds them. We are grass farmers - rotationally intensive graziers during the warm months, and dry hay and haylage all year. We buy shelled corn, steamed flaked corn, a protein suppliment that is mostly soy with minerals and additives to fill out the nurtritional requirements for the dairy cows. We raise all our own replacements. We drink our own milk raw, eat dairy beef. Neither Stan nor I do chickens or pigs, so the only other livestock is three Border Collies and some feral cats that hide from the aforementioned dogs.

When we got married, Stan was going to be an electrical engineer. I'd managed to not make it though one year of college, to say nothing of four, and he had a technical degree. He was lookng for a company to help him with the rest of a batchelor's degree and whatever else might come, but six months into his first job with a plant that was making proto-phone answering machines, we suddenly decided that we really needed to get back to farming. We were both raised on small family dairy farms, and that was what we really wanted to be doing. We sublet this place from Stan's dad, who had rented it from the elderly owners to keep heifers on, bought 8 cows and 12 springing heifers from him, and 10 calves and yearlings from my folks and went at it. Our machinery consisted of a used manure spreader that we bought at an auction and a 1938 John Deere "A" tractor that we borrowed from Stan's dad. We bought a house trailer that was parked at Stan's family's farm and commuted at least twice a day the 4 miles to this place. That was an interesting proposition in the winter. The town highway supervisor knew we had to get there, and would have the guys plow the two town roads that we took early. The fact that the county and state didn't always cooperate made for some hairy drives, but we always got here. When our oldest daughter turned 5, we moved the trailer over here, with the permission of the elderly owner, so that we could live in the same school district that the farm was in. We had since taken a lease in our names and had a first refusal right should Mrs. Brown ever decide to sell.

Anyway, long story short - we rented the place for 22 years and bought it 12 years ago. Stan does most of the work now, as I can no longer do heavy stuff because of health issues. We have help from our eldest duahgter's husband when he isn't teaching, and her 11 year old son is starting to do some chores off and on. Stan has a relief milker 3 nights a week.

Early on, someone asked us if we were part of the 'back to the land' movement, but I think you have to leave something to go back to it, and we were really always here.

Way to go Kathleen. There's no place like the country.
DH & I were both raised in the city.....and thought that was fine. Until we
got a taste of the good life.
Now we live in a small log cabin that we've built ourselves, as we could afford each step. Got our kids all grown and decided to go for it. For the first time ever, we've got chickens and eggs, and fresh vegetables that we grow. That may sound like small steps and it is, but for us city folk, it's a really big deal. We are trying to get more and more self-sufficient as quickly as we can, as there aren't all that many years before we will retire.
By the time we retire, we want to be out of any debt, and be able to provide most of our food needs. And if at all possible, figure out how to make a couple extra dollars. DH planted blueberries, thinking maybe sell a few each year. Most older folk that we know would welcome a couple extra pennies here and there to suppliment their retirement income. We're
just trying to figure it out a little ahead. lol

Thanks, Kathleen, for sharing your real Farm Life! What a chapter in your lives, eh? Or should I say "chapters"...I'm sure there were many episodes in many areas along those many years. Love reading about it!

And PeggieK...I"m sure you love your non-city life. Sounds like you have a good grip on what you wanna do and how you wanna live!

As for me, I only own ten acres and started it out with it being fully wooded. There was barely a pig-path of a road to get to it (and pretty much still is, compared to other roads!) but over time (21 years) this place has turned into Home. That's the short version (cus I'm getting too tired to type) but hope to hear more about any other folks who are "livin' in the country", "homesteading", or "farm livin'! Or anything similar! Please feel free to share, Folks!

Shoe.

This may seem a daft question but what is homesteading or a homestead and what is the difference between that and a farm please?

Well, I think the definition lends itself to a lot of personal interpretation.

But to me, "homesteading" means being or working towards being totally self-sufficient - raising all or nearly all of your own food, washing clothes by hand, producing your own power/heat, pretty much cutting off from modern life, etc., etc.. This can run the gamut from someone just wanting to "get back to the land" & grow their own food to someone who doesn't have a phone & runs their home on solar power. It's definitely an individual thing.


"Farming" is completely different, being raising livestock, produce, or other commodities for your own use &/or for sale.

Thanks Breezymeadow, not what I was thinking at all although the US definition of farm seems to be slightly different to ours too.

"Farm" tends to refer to a piece of land that is used for growing crops/animals etc, and does not necessarily always have a house on it. "Homestead" tends to refer to a house on land that can or is used for farming, etc.

(Pssst...I had to go look it up!) :>) Good question, Baa!

Thanks Shoe ......... that sounds more like what I was comparing it with. I think we'd call it a smallholding (and I think I may have been here before with that one).

Sorry to make you go an look it up Shoe *G* I haven't got the OED compact up here with me (which means I save my little, overworked digits from all that extra key bashing), here's one I googled for Smallholding from Answer.com

"smallholding

In British usage, a smallholding is a piece of land and its adjacent living quarters for the smallholder and stabling for farm animals on a smaller scale than that of a farm but larger than an allotment, usually under 50 acres (0.2 km²). On the one hand, it is often established for the breeding of farm animals on an organic basis on free-range pastures, or on the other hand the smallholder may concentrate on the growing of vegetables by various traditional methods or in a more modern way using plastic covers, tunnelling or cloches for quick growth.

Generally, a smallholding offers its owner a means of achieving self-sufficiency as to his and his family's own needs which he may be able to supplement by selling surplus produce, and to that end, temporary booths or more permanent shop facilities are often part of a smallholding."

There is another connotation that began as a part of the westward movement in the U.S. during the 1800's and early 1900's. Much of the land west of the Mississippi River that opened to settlers had not been recognized as being owned by any entity other than perhaps the federal government. Various areas became available in a variety of ways, such as the "land runs" into Indian Territory (now Oklahoma). Settlers who staked pieces for themselves (usually 160 acres) and began to build homes and survival/self sufficiency were called homesteaders.Under the Homestead Act of 1862 they were granted title to the land without payment after a certain period of time of continuous occupancy. Even today and even in urban areas, a home and the land it is on can be protected from seizure for debt and some taxation by homestead exemption laws in various jurisdictions.

Yes, Yuksa! Before I even found this discussion I looked up homesteading to see if this forum is applicable to me/my visions. I found it defined both as a home and surrounding lands, and also to the Homestead Act and its provisions. Thanks for your explanation! That elaborated on what I found. :)

I think the biggest difference between homesteading "then" and homesteading "now" is the societal emphasis. When the homesteaders of the 1860s went out to claim their land, it was so they could become part of the land owning establishment, people of property with a future as part of the growing nation. Now, when someone goes out to build a homestead, it's to escape from the establishment of an increasingly urban nation that is losing touch with the land and it's proper use.

I was reading an article last week end either in the paper or in one of several farming publications that I was catching up with that there is a book called Last Child in the Woods: Saving our Children From Nature Deficit Disorder by Richard Louv. I have read nothing more than this small article and the premiss that many of the attention disorders and stress and depression that children suffer from today in huge numbers may be due to the disconnection from nature. I have to say, it makes a great deal of sense to me, but I would need to read much more to give a more complete opinion.

That sure sounds interesting-- I'd be interested in looking into that theory more. I took a class in Environmental Education, and we learned that children with behavioral issues such as ADD did much better in environments where they could interact with and learn through nature. (Not only that, but engaging in environmental education improved standardized test scores since it incorporates several disciplines into practical problem solving skills. If only the schools would grasp onto this idea rather than abandon environmental education to "teach to the test"!)

"Last Child in the Woods: Saving our Children From Nature Deficit Disorder by Richard Louv". Now that sounds like an interesting book to me. (Unless it gets too "medically jargoned".)

I had to go look it up. Here, at the Amazon site, are some reviews and such. Well worth reading them. (They also offer some used copies at reduced rates.)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565123913/qid=1138146164/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-4031604-2367020?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Did you order one, Shoe?

I had an interesting experience with a group of kids in their teens in a poetry class I was teaching. The first day, I asked them what they wanted to get out of the class - they were all there by their choice - and it was unanimously agreed that they didn't want to have anything to do with nature, walking through it, discussing it, writing about it. When I pointed out that humans are definitely part of nature, they objected strenuously. It was a tough week for this poor country woman.

(I probably should explain that inspite of dropping out of college three times, that I do have a Master's Degree in Creative Writing: Poetry. Not one that's going to make me rich, but I can teach poetry.)

WOW! I'm working toward my Master's Degree in Environmental Studies, and that story makes me really, really sad. No wonder we are facing the problems we are... Another reason we need environmental education programs in schools (as it is also required by law in Washington state but is largely neglected). I can't believe people feel that much of a disconnect with nature. I can't imagine being out in nature and not feeling invigorated and alive!

Kathleen, nope...I didn't order one (yet). (I put myself on a financial freeze this time of year! Besides, if I wait 6 months I bet some of the used ones will be much less than they show now!) (I'm a miser, ya know!)

Now I'm curious what you ended up teaching that class? If they didn't care for the great outdoors, what in the world did they enjoy writing about? They surely must've be a tedious class to teach, or at least one that really had you putting forth some energy to teach them.

I am taking a class in Sustainability and environmental issues.The book that you are talking about is on our reading list.One book order is included in our tuition and I may order it but there are so many others that I can't make up my mind.

The teacher told a story about 2 kids who were bored.Their mother made them go outside and look around.They spent a few hours outside.The next day they were bored again.The mother told them to go outside again and their answer.....we did that yesterday.So so sad.

lol, same boat here, Horseshoe, and I already bought my book for the month. I'm pretty sure it will be going down. I will probably check out the library.

As I remember, that was the hardest class I ever dealt with. I had worked up a curriculum that had a lot of nature in it, and I really had to fly without a net with those kids. they wrote really well about really fightening things, black fantasies and relationships that were doomed. It was my next to the last class and the one that convinced me that I an NOT a teacher.

Kathleen, it sounds like those kids are going to have a depressing life unless someone puts them in touch with the benefits of nature, home, and family. Too many kids grow up without enough happy time spent in a stable home, and inside playing video games. Unfortunately that's truer than I'd like about my own kids, but at least we were all outside playing - a lot. My childhood, spent on a mini-farm on a lake, outside almost all of the time, drove me to become a biologist. And fired up my imagination and made me intensely curious - and usually fairly optimistic! It'd be great if parents had more time to spend with their kids, if society could just slow down a little bit.

I like the term smallholding. Seems to me a more natural state for us humans, spending most of our time near our family and working with our family, hard work but more joyful :)

That's great, mayflwrhem! It sounds like I had a similar childhood as you, and I majored in biology in college. Now I'm continuting my schooling (much better than working in my opinion, as long as I can drag it out!) and am pursuing a degree in Environmental Studies. There's definitely something to be said for an appreciation of the great outdoors and nature's processes! It is interesting to imagine how society would be different if those were values embraced by more of us.

I've wanted to ask a question about allotments, Baa. Somehow I had the impression that they were operated somewhat like community gardens here in the U.S. What is the approximate size of the parcels, and do the individuals who garden there own or lease the land? Do they construct buildings of any kind?

Allotment size varies, they are usually between 5 and 10 rod plots (10 rods is approx 250m squared), these 10 rod plots were supposed to be the size you needed to feed a family of 4 for a year.

The plots are kept up and used by the person renting the plot, there are managers and groups with most areas and a long list of rules which can change from one set of allotments to another. The land is most often owned by the local councils although I think a few are sites still owned by private individuals, the plot holders themselves have to rent each plot on an annual basis.

On some plots you can have a shed or greenhouse but nothing permanent, some places used to allow you to keep chickens and occasionally pigs but a lot of that has now gone by the wayside.

You know, I wonder if some of these kids who are so bored outside just need someone to show them some good games and spend time WITH them outside - playing make-believe!

Good luck on your master's degree programs! I had all my coursework done but my thesis experiment wasn't going well - I put it on hold for too long (working way too many hours at the lab) now I have to figure out how to get going again. Moral: don't let ANYTHING stop you!

Hehe, yep, I know a few people who have been in the program for years, with just their theses to go. I bet part of the trick is picking a good question (which I've been putting a lot of thought into with no good conclusions yet...). Good luck to you getting back into it!

Oh, my thesis was way too easy - I wrote a book of poems. Now, I'm sure some wouldn't think so, but to me it felt like cheating.

I think the problem with those kids in particular was a question of money. Their parents had come from middle class families and made buckets of money and felt that their kids would have it "better" than they did. The American dream - rags to riches, or more likely now, Sears to Neiman Marcus. When did living within your means and enjoying it become a bad thing? The kids had no work ethic at all - everything was a big joke and when they found out that I was "just a farmer" I may as well have stayed home.