Shrubs flowering on new wood

Equil makes a good point -- deer don't just attack plants during the dormant season, they will do so in spring as well, cropping the new growth and eating the flowers as they emerge. Then the bucks will rub the bark and lower branches off every fall and winter until the trees are large (i.e. more than 8 inches in diameter, in our experience here). You really need to get rid of the deer somehow (don't we all!).

I sometimes have dreams about having clandestine meetings deep in the forest with the Head Deer, where I strike a bargain to post "no hunting" signs and put out salt blocks if he will direct his hordes to eat and attack only the stuff I designate -- you know, honeysuckle, etc. -- I also have dreams of meeting with the Devil to promote CWD or some other solution. Mismanagement of the deer population by so many state hook-and-bullet departments (I refuse to call them "Conservation" agencies because they have not earned it) has become a crime against our environment and our way of life.

Guy S.

Have you thought about growing shrubs in large containers. You could even put them on wheels so you could move them to a protected spot during the winter. I know down here the crape myrtle blooms on new wood. There are now dwarf varieties suitable for growing in containers. However they must be protected from extreme cold. Brugmansia are deer resistant but they also would have to be protected during the winter. Both of these plants can be cut all the way back during the winter.

Guys, thanks for your input. We've been here for 7 years now in a very rural area just south of the U,P. of MI. Most of the land up here is forested with mixed hard maple, yellow birch, basswood, aspen and a mix conifer growth of balsam, white spruce and white pine. Most of the area was cut clear of old growth eastern white pine in early 1900's to rebuild Chicago after the fire. "They" tried to farm it for a few years but there's not a very long growing season and truth be told our best crop is snow from mid October to early May. Zone 3b; however with anything over 9 in of snow on the level the frost comes out of the ground and you can actually dig in the woods if you can navigate easily with your snow shoes on. Being on the south end of the Superior snow belt most years we get over 250 in. In the spring and summer I garden ( mostly perennials, d.conifers, shrubs, and specimen trees); in the fall and winter I cut and split wood to keep active... you can only read so much. If I walked 20 yards from the house in any direction with a ten foot 2x4 I could not spin a circle with out hitting 3 trees. Fighting the horned rodents with Liquid Fence, Blood Meal, and Milorganite with good success in spring and summer until first week in October when the woods turn brown, but by then most of the garden is brown also. Example of what I was asking about: Kerria, a zone 5 shrub, does well for me but any "old wood" out of the snow cover winter kills and hence does not flower. Any ideas of ref on shrubs that list those that flower on "new wood".

I cut a portion of my original post off when I went in and edited above but I had tailed what I wrote with the following and it isn't showing up any longer-
"I'm pretty far north in Illinois and I've had success with these. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to plant any of them and enjoy the same pretty blooms providing they are protected for a few years."

I believe I am correct in my editing above in which I added whether a plant bloomed on new wood or old wood. If I am not, I hope somebody corrects me.

Since I know the area where you live, I took a peek at a map. Are you sure you are a zone 3 there and not a 4? I am originally from your area and still have property a tad north of you and a little east and I'm a 4 according to the map I looked at for US hardiness. Maybe I am a little off on exactly where you live. Doesn't make that much difference though.

Help me understand why you feel that shrubs that flower on new growth stand a better chance against the deer? I understand the snow deal because I'm from the Upper Peninsula but I’m not quite catching your rationale. I’d like to understand what you are saying because I am working on my land up north also. It is not nearly as degraded as where I reside year round in Illinois but I am nipping some situations in the bud and most certainly have had to deal with deer up there. So far, my experience has been they will eat anything within their reach if it is not protected.

Here are three more that flower on new wood-
Smooth Sumac (Rhus glabra)
American Witchhazel (Hamamelis virginiana)
Summersweet (Clethra alnifolia)
Pretty much all Hydrangeas flower on new wood and some of those might be hardy up north.

Although these shrubs I am adding below flower on old wood, you might want to consider adding one or two to your property as sort of an offering to the deer gods?
Spicebush (Lindera benzoin)
Large Fothergilla (Fothergilla major)

Psst, I think they nailed you guys to rebuild after the Peshtigo Fire too which occurred right around the same time as the Chicago Fire so you got a double whammy if I am not mistaken.

Most summer and fall flowering shrubs bloom on new wood. I think alot of these may not be hardy in your area however. Buddleia ..caryopteris etc. Endless summer Hydrangea & Penny Mac Hydrangea bloom on new wood as well as the white ones.

Buddleia spp. can be botanical bullies particularly in warmer regions. We've got problems with them here in Illinois. Natural land managers have been asking folk to please not plant them and have been providing lists of more appropriate alternatives. The plant does not currently appear on a noxious weed list for Illinois or Wisconsin to the best of my knowledge. Buddleia davidii will probably be hardy in your area. Given the description of your property, it might not be the best choice given the plant is being reported as being a potential invader of natural areas but it would probably survive quite well. One of the reasons Butterfly Bush is so popular is because it is touted as being "hard to kill". Please know that not all Buddlei flower on new wood. Most notably, B. asiatica, B. colvilei and B. globosa (the least invasive of Buddlei), and B. alternifolia. Therefore cultivars of same would also flower on old wood as a rule of thumb.

Here's a link to Buddlei that might be of interest to you. The author had a sense of humor which I always appreciate- http://www.nwnews.com/editions/2005/050801/home_garden1.htm
This link provides better details- http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/buda.htm

That is a funny article..thanks for posting. I have gotten rid of my buddlei..but because of not enough sun, not because it reseeded. However...it is probably in someone elses' yard..LOL what about Lespedeza?

Yes, I enjoy people who add their personal experiences with a plant. I've read some real doozies and I have sat here in front of the computer laughing my rear off. Some people have a way with words and their blow by blow descriptions of eradicating some species cracks me up.

Chinese Lespedeza is a problem child, more so than Buddleia which is generally not that big of a deal up north- http://www.invasive.org/eastern/species/3033.html
That was just the first entry that popped up when I googled.

How about some Hydrangea Paniculata. Around here the deer don't seem to eat these, and they do flower on new growth. I know the deer will eat anything if they get hungry enough, but we have a lot of deer damage, but they leave the Hydrangeas alone. We do have some rabbit chewing on them, however. They are mostly hardy to Z3. Some of the newer ones are really pretty, and they take full sun to part shade.

I had no idea about Lespedeza being invasive! I just got one last summer..........Oh well~~~~~~

I have had Lespedeza thunbergi at the east end of my house for 10 years. The only problem I have with it is the it grows by the end of summer too large for the space i alloted it. My fault, but it is very pretty and so I walk around it. I do have my garden fenced in with a solid redwood board fence and one large gate. I am also using Plantskydd as a preventative on the shrubbery, for when i forget to close the gate.

DonnaS

Levilyla, just to clarify...Chinese lespedeza, L. cuneata, is considered invasive. L. thunbergii ('Gibraltar'), the plant more commonly seen in trade, is not considered invasive. I will appreciate being corrected if I am wrong about this. SB

I think mine must be that because it was given to me by a landscape designer. I thought it was very pretty in late summer....hot pink flowers.

To the best of my knowledge, all "Asian" Lespedeza have weedy tendencies it's just that some are weedier if that's even a word. L. thunbergii is Korean but it can be as invasive as the L. cuneata which is from Japan and China. There are many cultivars being introduced such as the 'Gibraltar' mentioned by stressbaby which does muddy the waters as there often isn't enough time to collect data on the plant because it is a new introduction... until the plant becomes a problem child. In other words, L. capitata and L. hirta which originate from Japan (?) have the same or possibly even greater invasive tendencies as other "Asian" Lespedeza such as L. bicolor it's just that there may not have been enough time to document same. It all gets confusing at times. L. cuneata may have been an earlier introduction so therefore more of them would have been sold and are out there in numbers to "breed". This also plays into the scheme of things. Newer introductions often haven't had the time to "breed" and get into natural areas and cultivars often get sold as plain old L. 'Gibraltar' wich confuses the buying public as they don't see the thunbergii written anywhere so no way to look up the plant. Generally if you see the plant on the Fed's hit lists or at The Nature Conservancy, it's a problem child regardless of whether individual States were progressive enough to add it to their Hall Of Shame lists. Sad but true. Look at how many lists Kudzu and Salt Cedar are mysteriously absent from. Really makes you scratch your head and wonder.

http://www.se-eppc.org/ky/list.htm
http://www.invasive.org/listview.cfm?list=16&sort=1

Amazing that every day we are assailed by the "introduction" of new plants from all over the world and "plantsmen" are even while we speak bringing back material that no one knows how it will react in our environment. Every spring thousands of visitors to the northwoods laud the wild flowers blooming at the side of the road when most are in fact aliens: red and yellow hawkweed and oxeye daisy. How different it must have seem before the europeans came: vast tracts of unbroken hardwood forest from east coast to the praries, much of northern WI in a monoculture of Eastern White Pine, and what I find most amazing fully 3/4 of the total bird population in a species that no longer exists. Does this mean I have to give up my "Gib" that flowered for me for the first time in our late fall after waiting for 3 years? Ken

This message was edited Jan 22, 2006 8:48 PM

No dear, you don't need to give it up. You need to do what is within your comfort range based on your beliefs. For all the joking I do with Guy about his Albizia, It's just teasing. It's your land, you pay the taxes there and it is truly your decision... and yours alone to make.

That hawkweed has been a big problem for me up north. Oddly enough, it isn't down here by me... yet. I know all too well what it looks like so if I even see one of those around here, I will rip it out of the ground before it sets seed.

For us here in northern Illinois, the roadside display is Chicory, Oxeye Daisy, Dame's Rocket, Purple Loosestrife, Queen Anne's Lace, Ribbon Grass, and most recently pretty Wild Parsnip. Oddly enough people think those are wild flowers and ornamental grasses. What are you gonna do!

The bird population is getting help. Don't let it get you down. People are beginning to choose plants with the height and branching habits that afford the protection from predation that native species once provided and people are choosing fruiting plants that provide the essential lipids migrating birds must have to survive. Incidentally; most, if not all, of the flowering shrubs I recommended to you above have those essential life sustaining lipids unlike many of the alien species that are basically empty calories which can and often do mean death to some birds. People are beginning to manage the feral cat populations out there and increasingly more people are seeing the need to spay and neuter their pets while an ever increasing number of owners are disallowing their cats from having access to the great outdoors which minimizes their impact on the environment. We've learned that windows kill a tremendous amount of birds so people are installing mini blinds and putting up sun catchers and tacking streamers to the outsides of their windows to do their part to help decrease the number of deaths annually that occur as a result of birds flying smack dab into what they believe is an extension of their air space. I've seen homes that have masking tape Xs on some of their picture windows and you know somethig, I don't think it unduly detracts from the curb appeal of their homes. Add to this the growing number of people who are actively dispatching English House Sparrows and European Starlings. It will be ok, I promise. More and more people are beginning to understand the complexity of the issues facing us. It takes time, baby steps. Everyone doing a little bit here and there helps tremendously.

My Albizia said to tell you it resembles that insulting remark!

Guy S.

I am so sorry your Albizia "resembles" that insulting remark. Let me make it up to your tree. I'll buy a nice big 100% block out tarp for your tree to wear for the next year or so to protect it from this horrible winter weather and the summer heat. I wouldn't want anything to happen to your beloved Albizia. I'm thinking a few nicks in its bark here and there might help it breathe a little better too. Lemme come on down and see what I can do to girdle er uh... let your Albizia breathe a little better and come to think of it... I've got this nice jar of tasty chemicals for your tree too. Yum yum and slurp slurp.