Mimosa invasive in RI?

I have the pods and am going to plant, but don't want to be responsible for wreaking havoc on the natural woodands around my home.

I need help!

This message was edited Jan 11, 2006 1:17 PM

If you look around your area and find others planted, and they have not reproduced at all, you might be OK. But you are right to be concerned. Albizia can be very invasive in warm climates and under the right (wrong) circumstances.

We have no trouble with it here (zone 5) because it barely survives our winters and our growing season might be too short for it to set viable seed. Still, I watch ours like a hawk. If we start to find seedlings I'll be jumping on the problem before Equil finds out and kills me! Since you have a milder climate and perhaps a maritime-induced longer growing season, be careful.

Guy S.

That's it Guy! I'm going to get my chainsaw and I'm coming to get that Albizia of yours ;)

All joking aside GRENTHUMBS, you are zone 6 and that plant will probably be a problem child for you and if not for you... for natural areas as you suspected. These things can be pretty weedy and if you want to avoid playing the roll of the sorcerer's apprentice wildly whacking the offspring of albizia with a broom to beat them back when you could be out and about spending your time planting well behaved pretties, pick a plant that respects property lines a little bit better than Albizia.

Hey thanks Guy. I got the seeds from a woman a few towns over she didn't even know what it was, I looked around her neighborhood and didn't see them growing anywhere else, could be the seeds I swiped aren't any good. Think I'll stick one in a pot and see what happens. If it grows maybe I should keep it in the pot and keep it pruned, think that would work?


Sorry to go on and on...picking your brain!
thanks
Dena

oh dear god Equilibrium, I got a mental oicture of that!!!!!

can you pot them?

Unless you have a specific interest in Albizia, I would follow Equil's advice and plant something else. But if you want to play with them as pot plants for a while and make the ultimate decision later, that's certainly an option.

And remember that now is not the season to check for escaped Albizia seedlings -- they fade into the background this time of year. Wait until they leaf out and bloom to find them.

Nobody tell Equil where I live, or my arboretum might look like a timber harvest! She and her new buddy BigRed the body builder might come here and raise havoc! Help!!!

Guy S.

If I could manage this thing in a big ol pot and get it to bloom I could then pick off the pods before they have a chance to be trouble? go on and talk me out of it...


Its just sooo tempting!

This message was edited Jan 11, 2006 3:11 PM

Yeah, I do that too, even with things like Sapium. But that won't survive outdoors here, so invasiveness is of little concern.

You gotta follow your instincts and your conscience. If there are a dozen of them on your block already, one more won't matter much. And if they are already reproducing into the native habitats in your area, the cat is out of the bag forever and you won't be adding much to the problem except by setting a bad example. If there are none, planting the first one is practically a criminal act unless you can prevent recruitment in one way or another. You decide! Maybe the seeds won't sprout anyway, who knows.

If you do plant them, and they do grow, you'd better hide from Equil and her chain saw. She's the native conscience that sits on all of our shoulders whispering "don't do it . . . don't do it . . . . . . . . . . " and she's a force to be reckoned with! She might be a pipsqueak, but terror and mayhem and logic can come in small packages. Whenever I falter in my efforts to prevent more problems with invasives, I call upon her resolve and energy for reinforcement.

Guy S.

I guess maybe I should just let it go...
I can't help but to envision it covered with blossoms and humming birds!!!

I just don't want some tiny little package of fury and her partner coming to RI with that chain saw...


hee hee hee
Thanks for your time!
Dena

doooooooooooooooon't do it . . . dooooooooooooon't do it . . . . . . . . . .

;)

Say Dena, check out this web site and see if there isn't anything of interest to you-
http://www.enature.com/native_invasive/
click on your state and add your e-mail address and they'll send you a list.

Here's are a few nice organizations that may have some volunteers who may be able to share lists of blooming trees and shrubs with you for your coastal region-
http://www.riwps.org/
http://www.newfs.org/

The Audubon Society of Rhode Island
12 Sanderson Road
Smithfield, RI 02917
Tel. (401)949-5454
http://www.asri.org/

The Nature Conservancy
Rhode Island Field Office
45 South Angell Street
Providence, RI 02906
Tel. (401)331-7110

Also too, since you're into blossoms and hummingbirds, see if any of the titles at this site are available at your local library-
http://www.uri.edu/ce/rinhs/books_garden.htm

Thanks a bunch Equil, you know something, I can't bring myself to do or plant something that is going to be destructive.
Thank you for all the info. Its so great.



why is it the things we want so badly are almost always taboo?!
Ok I'm going to be a good girl and go read about pretties I won't need a broom to keep in-line...
Thanks again,

Dena

Good for you, Dena. Consider the following rant to apply to the general non-named and non-targeted readers.

I'll add dittoes to everything Equil said, and add a hand-slap to Guy (who wrote a fine text on trees, which as I recall spent little time discussing plants which weren't from around these parts).

Borrowing liberally but purposefully......the word of the day from "Landscaping with Native Trees": autochthonous, referring to native trees still growing where they originated. I'd recommend to Grenthumbs to seek out these species.

The hummingbirds (and other fauna, insects, etc.) somehow managed without us providing plants they knew nothing about. They still can benefit (and probably be better suited to their life cycle and migration patterns) by having us plant things that used to be growing here before we changed the landscape. Of course, match up plants as best possible with current conditions, but use of the native plants contributes by seed, pollen, habitat, etc. etc. to a synergistic increase in value far more than a single nonnative THAT MAY CREATE HAVOC.

"You gotta follow your instincts and your conscience. If there are a dozen of them on your block already, one more won't matter much. And if they are already reproducing into the native habitats in your area, the cat is out of the bag forever and you won't be adding much to the problem except by setting a bad example. If there are none, planting the first one is practically a criminal act unless you can prevent recruitment in one way or another. You decide! Maybe the seeds won't sprout anyway, who knows." Guy S., 1/11/06

Can you hear me tsk tsking? I'm going to give Equil a ride in my tree mower (the big combine-like land clearing devices, that chew up trees like cornstalks and leave just a well-tilled surface behind, which by the way is like a perfectly prepared garden condition for germinating every known invasive - need I say Lonicera maackii, Rhamnus cathartica, Elaeagnus angustifolia, Celastrus orbiculatus) over to Starhill Forest and just sit there revving the engine. To me, that is the equivalent to purposely planting a known or suspected invasive species. An idling threat.

In the effort (call it skirmish, battle, war, conflagration, whatever) to reduce and eliminate those invasive species which displace native plants, overrun natural areas, change plant communities/hydrology/soil chemistry/fire behavior/animal habitats, every time a homeowner continues to use these plants is a setback. EVEN IF THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL never produces a seed that leaves the property, it is an example, and I call it a bad one. As many know, plants reproduce otherwise than by seed. Japanese knotweed is famous for whole plant parts moving with water; Ailanthus can move some good distances as a colonizer. Let's not forget how whole forums (here and elsewhere) are founded on TRADING. Dena could become the "mother plant" for those less knowledgeable or forthright in concern for what happens after an innocent planting occurs.

Just suppose: the native landscape/woodlands near Dena's neighborhood had been infested with invasive exotics, but the land manager and allies had spent the last, say, fifteen years diligently removing the pathologies AND convincing the adjacent community why they should consider alternative plants (hopefully a high percentage of natives, that could then inoculate the native landscape at a higher rate with offspring of these plants). It's been an uphill effort, with occasional setbacks and a lot of sweat equity, but they are seeing light at the end of the honeysuckle morass. Then Dena comes along proudly with the brand new Albizia.

Would that set your teeth on edge or what?

Jeepers, I know I WAS thinking bad thoughts, I said I'd be a GOOD girl!

: )

I always check on things I'm thinking of planting... BEFORE... planting them.
I plan on keeping that promise never to cause harm, any plant I'm not sure of gets asked about, I check many diff places for my answers because what may be an invasive there may not be here or the other way around, and when not sure I won't plant it just becuz.

The wild lands are safe with me, I take the deer tick chance every summer and check up on the invasive free area, to make sure it stays that way, I look for things I haven't seen before and when I find something I look it up or take it to URI and have them tell me what it is. Its not a huge piece of land and as RI is such a small place with lots of people in it, it would be easy for us to loose it. I can't let the woods or the wetlands go that easy... there aren't to many left to loose.



This message was edited Jan 13, 2006 9:03 AM

Remember the forbidden fruit in the Garden Of Eden? What can I say... I am guilty. I love these types of plants but I grow them inside my home when possible so that there is never any risk of escape. My bad!

Why V V, I'm getting these really warm and fuzzy feelings about you and I don't even know you. If I haven't said so before, a big welcome to you for registering and stopping in to post so thoughtfully. I don't know if you are aware of this but there is a forum here called Indigenous Plants. There are many threads in that area that could use a few comments. You may have to go back a bit to poke around but there are some people over there who will probably bow down and cyber kiss you.

Now, about Guy... I say we go on a covert mission to his house under the cloak of darkness and get that Pretty little Albizia of his.

I wooooooooooooon't do it!.......I wooooooooooooooooooon't do it!

Does this mean we can count you in on a recognizance mission to Guy's house? I know where he lives and I've even got his phone number (nanner nanner nanner) so we could call to check to make sure the coast is clear before we drop in and take care of business over there.

I have some nice surveying flags he needs and have been trying to figure out a way to get them to him so this might be a great opportunity to drop them off.

I'm sitting here LOL about this covert mission to nuke my arboretum! All it takes is a little flexibility on my part to bring MacDuff's knights out of Burnham Wood to attack my Dunsinane*. So many of you just sit back and wait for me to be the bad cop and do the ranting for you, so it's fun to watch you fill the vacuum whenever I give an inch! I do admit it's somewhat relieving to know that if I step in front of a cement truck tomorrow, you will continue the war on exotics.

Just a reminder -- the Illinois Department of Conservation (now DNR) stopped producing exotic wildlife shrubs and converted to an all-natives program in the late 1980s. This happened because of an initiative I started with our botanist John Schwegman. All of you from the Midwest who are at all involved with natural area protection know John. He and I led this effort to abort the autumn olive / honeysuckle / multiflora rose tragedy in Illinois, and we stopped the annual sale of millions of each of those plants. More importantly, no new "miracle exotics" were introduced via the Illinois DNR from that day onward, and the diversity of native species grown by the State-operated nurseries quadrupled or more. This was the national prototype for ecologically responsible conservation nursery management, and many other states have yet to follow the example.

All that being said, I still say that if you want to grow an albizia in a pot and pick off the pods, or if they are hopelessly entrenched in your neighborhood already, it's your call to make. We all are gardeners, not just preservationists -- but be a responsible gardener.

As for me, I grow some of these things for study, not for ornament, and if they begin to show problems I not only deal with that but I pass the word along to others. I don't grow the species known to be invaders locally, and I take every opportunity to promote and participate in their control. I do plant things that are not (yet) known to be invasive here, and I wait to see if they can get through the lag phase of recruitment before I start recommending them to anyone. Most are fine, a few are not -- and those few cost us as a nation, financially and biologically, far more than we should have to pay.

Virtually all of the trees/shubs in the major problem category here in my region are avian-vectored, and that is a key factor in evaluating new exotics. Species like Amur maple, white poplar, Koelreuteria, exotic Viburnums, etc. spread slowly and locally here, and can be monitored. Species like Callery pears, honeysuckles, Rhamnus, roses, Celastrus, Euonymus, and Elaeagnus are spread as far and as fast as birds can fly, and light-seeded species like Paulownia and black alder are spread as fast as the wind can blow. Different ballgame -- hardball! Anyone who plants such known invasive species that can spread seriously in his/her habitat and climate zone needs his/her head examined (or removed).

This is a huge and complex issue that only a few people on the forum probably even begin to comprehend, and Equil and ViburnumValley are two of those people. If you're not one, stay away from the exotics that are likely to have any potential to be a problem. And if you're not sure, do what Grenthumbs did -- ask! (i.e., Grenthumbs, you done good.)

Follow the Gardeners' Corollary of the Golden Rule: have fun manipulating your garden as long as you do no harm to the surrounding environment.

Guy S.
*Stones have been known to move, and trees to speak. (...when Burnham Wood doth march on Dunsinane.)
-- MacBeth, 1606 (William Shakespeare, 1564 -1616)

Pardon, my ignorance, but how should I dispose of the seeds? Will the wood stove do?

This message was edited Jan 13, 2006 3:07 PM

How to dispose of the seeds... why put them in your pocket and meet me over at Guy's house and I'll torch them for you with an acetylene torch I could stash away in my handy bag of "tools"... I'm ready... I've got my chainsaw and one of these days I done gonna get me his Albizia.

Seriously Dena, just bag them and toss them out with your garbage. That's what I do with seeds such as that.

Time to go board up my house to hide what's growing inside from Guy. Mustn't let him know there are pretty ickies inside or he'll be over here making runs to the dumpster. Shhh, it's our secret.

Thanks a bunch Guy, & Equil, I really do appreciate all your advice, and I thank you for all the pushing and shoving in the rite direction.

I'll be sure to check with you from time to time to keep myself on the strait and narrow...

Spred the word about Albizia... I have gotten alot of BAD advice and I'd hate to see some poor person foolishly make a bad choice...

Dena