The tree is ten yrs old (from seed). Blossom in July is pink but not showy here. Cherry-red drupes of berries begin to look good in October.... persisting to now (easy winter so far) in SE Newfoundland CANADA. I have several thousand seeds pulped from the berries for trade or sase. Seeds of Cornus need stratification, i.e. I winter the seeded pots under the snow, under plastic dome to keep mice out, and weed seeds...........
Additional picture: close-up.
Great plant, but I'm much more interested in your screen name. My name is Guy and I was born in 1947 -- are you my mirror image in another dimension?
;-)
Guy S.
Why Guy... I am younger than you. Nanner nanner nanner!
I know that, you little pipsqueak!
You'd better respect your elders, especially when they're Scorpios!
Yes sir, I will be sure to respect my Scorpio elders sir. Now excuse me sir while I go chuckle and snicker sir.
Well...now I'm mad! I bought a c.kousa(var./hybrid unknown) in a 5 gal. pot about 15 yrs ago and it's yet to bloom. Before anyone asks....yes,I took it out of the pot and planted it in the ground. ~~~$;>P Native c. florida(smaller,self-sewn,transplanted from other areas in my yard) planted at the same time,bloomed like crazy this year. I harvested some seeds before the birds got all of them and potted them up.
Thank you bigred, for making my day,
Before anyone asks....yes,I took it out of the pot and planted it in the ground.
Bigred, it probably was a seedling, not a grafted cultivar. They can take that long to bloom when grown from seed. Just be patient, enjoy the bark and the fall color, and suddenly one year it will bless you with blooms. (I am assuming that when you removed the pot you took care of any circling roots, loosened or washed away the potting mix, and planted it high, right?)
Equil, how do you insert quotes in boxes like that? You young whippersnappers are just too computer savvy for me!
Guy S.
Hey Guy,
here's a sample of how to do it-
cut and paste whatever you want to quote right here
Now, replace the < and > with [ and ] and what the other person wrote will end up in quotes. Use your preview to get the hang of it and then you will be off to the races and you can quote away with wild abandon.
Yes, young whippersnappers are great. One of my sons taught me how to do it. Children are such a joy at times. Try a few of mine out for a week or so, they'll teach you all kinds of computer tricks and I'll get a much needed vacation.
I only recently had the botanical name confirmed at the M.U.N. Botanical Garden. My ten yr old tree came to me as a seedling from a friend who said it came from a reputable seed house in the U.S................ as Cornus florida. A routine look-up suggested that the name might be Cornus kousa satomi. Cornus florida blooms in Spring whereas Cornus kousa blooms later in Summer, and a younger one I have started fruiting at around 4-5 yrs of age at 4-5 ft in height.
FYI, I have been getting seed from Park Seed and Thompson&Morgan (U.S.&U.K.) in addition to various Canadian houses w/o any legal hassels. I wouldn't dream of shipping a proscribed item like Papaver somniferum......... when it could make its way round the world in the cuff of someone's pants, unawares! Has Datura *.* made it to the druggies proscribed list yet? I only recently tripped over an item about it.
Very mild here with rain......... I wish you all bountiful SNOW to keep your trees and shrubs and perennials warm....
Bill in SE Newfoundland Canada
Hi Bill, glad you've joined!
The US is not as progressive as Canada in many ways. We're often a tad too political and lobbyists are well paid. What can I say. The Papaver somniferum is invasive here too but you won't see it on many lists. Odd but... a plant can be named on an invasive list by all states surrounding a state and the state smack dab in the center doesn't list the same plant as being invasive (as if plants know not to seed or send out rhizomes across state boundaries)... not much we can do other than to educate each other. Many plants don't make it on to lists here that should be. We've sort of spun out of control and I suspect we're all going to pay now with the introduction of white lists.
Yes, we lost all of our snow here too. It's unseasonably warm right now. We certainly do need that nice layer of insulating snow to keep our babies protected.
And Guy, here's something for you-
Italics Hi Guy, how be you?
Italics and Bold Hi Guy, how be you?
And you can even change font size and the color of font but I haven't figured out how to do that here... No need to comment once you make the connection ;)
Hi. The pics you have don't look like C. k. 'Satomi' - here's a pic of one Id'd at DG. It looks more Cotoneaster.
Growin's comment that what I was provided with as Cornus might indeed be Cotoneaster is a good point. The botanist pointed out that Cornus florida blooms before the leaves appear in Spring whereas my shrubby tree blooms in Summer........... like Cornus kousa. I had looked long before at Cotoneaster species in my RD A-Z Encyclopedia of Garden Plants and I didn't find one which matched. I provided the Botanic Garden with a tray of these as seedlings - the botanist didn't have a sprig with a bloom on it ..... to further help identification.
Based on Growin's comment, I will leave the Botanical name open to question. I believe the tree/shrub is worth growing here in Nfld., and you are invited to make your own judgement about your locale. I live in zone 5a.... with a view a mile distant of the Atlantic Ocean.
I do note that there is some crossing of branches, like Amelanchier sp., in its habit. I am glad I posted the picture.
Bill in SE Newfoundland, Canada
I took another look at your pics. If you look at the bottom of the fruit, it looks like the bottom of an apple = Rosacea (Rose Family). There's one down the street just like yours that is a Cotoneaster with nice red fruit like that. Cornus have fruit that is lumpy-bumpy and are a washed-out red. I've been meaning to ID the plant down the street.
I just looked at it too -- you're right, it's definitely not Cornus.
Guy S.
Lauren,
your welcome...glad to have made your New Year brighter*G*
I'll have to go check that dogwood for a graft. It's planted in the east corner of my front yard under a huge double trunk oak.Morning sun for about 3-4 hrs.then high shade the rest of the day. Growing well but not as fast as c.flordia planted at the same time. C.floridas all have this springs buds but I haven't checked c.kousa for buds yet.Because of it's location,it very seldom get supplimental watering like the others and that's a pretty dry corner of the yard.
Peggy
Oh growin! Good catch on that plant not being Cornus. I clicked on the first photo and got hung up looking at his coniferous woodland in the photo and then I looked at his deck and then back at that treeline of his again and was thinking how nice it would be to sit on that deck overlooking that property on a warm summer morning with all those trees as a backdrop. Ha, even if I had been looking closer I probably wouldn't have caught it anyway.
By the way, very nice back yard Bill.
Yes Peggy, I laughed outloud at that one because I will never forget that young lady all concerned about messing up her new lawn and getting it dirty. I think I about gagged at the time and the expression on the speaker's face when he realized what she had done was priceless. I have to give everybody credit though, nobody laughed out loud in front of her... we all went out into the hallway to do that. I've had my share of blonde moments but that gal beat anything I've ever done in the past.
As I scrolled down through the messages, I was getting ready to disown StarhillForest as an authority on anything other than strictly Quercus ID. Then I realized that he and Equil were caught up in one-cyber-upmanship and not paying attention to aguy1947.
That's definitely something other than a Cornus (opposite buds/branching is a primary ID), certainly not a C. kousa which has large single bumpy round fruit. That closeup of the fruit/foliage made me think of some sort of crabapple (Malus sp.) first. Should be a fun one to sleuth out.
Now I want to know who the botanist is that you've relied on...hmmm.
The original seedling came to me as Cornus florida. A friend interested in trees got the seed over 10 yrs ago from someplace like JCHudson.... Me, I figured it couldn't be Cornus florida, suspected Cornus kousa satomi.... and put the question to a botanist as I presented a tray of seedlings. The botanist (on the assumption of Cornus) indicated off the top of his head that kousa blooms in summer (satomi is pink) .... If you are convinced that the tree is Cotoneaster, which one am I to look up (been here before too)? The only Cotoneaster that I have is the (probably) horizontalis situated in a sloped bed.... and doing well. Please note that the tree foliage persisted late into Fall. I have reviewed the RD Encyclopedia info on Cornus and Cotoneaster and I am none the wiser. The flower in all pictures of Cornus kousa is indeed much showier than what blooms on this tree. Note the drupes of berries..... like small clusters of Mountain Ash (dogberries here). The birds don't appear to like the berries, whereas they clean the white berries from Cornus stolonifera in the wild...... FYI, we reside in the country - the original parcel contained 10 acres, below the grade of the road, on a slope.......... valley rim, protected from prevailing westerly wind. We sold 5 acres recently. The house and garden are in the SW corner.... with our view of the ocean - a mile distant to the NE. The woods here are coniferous - mainly spruce and fir, with some larch, birch, aspen, alders, etc.......... the terrain is Appalachian, but marshes, lakes, and barrens are here en masse. Nickname of Newfoundland = The Rock For gardeners, the main enemy is wind. The climate is maritime, (but) the weather is bloody awful.
What is the definitive method of identification of Cornus vs Cotoneaster vs something else? The University Library is ten miles away..... Whatever the name, it is worth growing! BTW, my main interest is dahlias........... breeding some.
Bill in SE Newfoundland.
The house and garden are in the SW corner.... with our view of the ocean - a mile distant to the NE. The woods here are coniferous - mainly spruce and fir, with some larch, birch, aspen, alders, etc.......... the terrain is Appalachian, but marshes, lakes, and barrens are here en masse.
Bill, your Cornus kousa appears to be a Chokecherry, probably a seedling from Prunus virginiana 'Schubert'. Hardy to zone 2, a very common ornamental in Fairbanks, Alaska!
Update: It is possible that the subject tree/shrub is Cotoneaster bullatus (syn Cotoneaster rehderi) with a zone rating of 6-8 in the RD A-Z Encyclopedia of Garden Plants. There is a specimen.... about ten miles away.... for me to compare form and fruit. However, the specimen is located in a park rated as the 'banana belt' of St. John's NL, at least a zone 6 - I figure my garden is a zone 5a. Note: the new leaves on mine show red/purple. It's the coarse veining in the description that has me scratching my head a bit. Pic of fruit of Cotoneaster bullatus from Internet is attached.
Bill in SE Nfld.
Bill, I now think you have the correct ID(Cotoneaster bullatus) I googled up some pics that looked nearly identical to your to your original 'closeup'
Yes, I did some more sleuthing online, and went to see the specimen ten miles from here in a park. I am convinced now that what started as Cornus florida, segued to Cornus kousa satomi, is now finally pegged as Cotoneaster bullatus (syn. C. rehderi). The specimen in the park was being shaded by 2 tall trees...... and it was not as tall nor as handsome as my own ; I spotted it easily enough by the few berries remaining, had a good look at the 'branching habit' (erratic) to become convinced. Mine still has a goodly number of drupes of berries, and this after I picked and pulped 2 two-liter tubs for the seed. I will check on propagation from cuttings later.
Bill, I took cuttings from Cotoneaster bullatus in late August. They were 6 inches long, treated with #2 hormone and placed in a mist chamber. 8 of 10 cuttings rooted and are now in a cool house for the winter (minimum temp 5 C).
Ooooh! Todd , were you a naughty boy.... snipping shrubbery in the park? I did some pruning on mine where branches rubbed and the usual winter damage removal. I did notice a one-inch shoot on the one in the park (late Fall temperature fluctuations?) I haven't done a big lot of rooting from cutttings........ I could easily take a number of cuttings at the moment........ as I have the rooting hormone powders and gel. My other Cotoneaster is a candidate as well. Geranium cuttings are dead boring......... and typically aren't as vigourous as seed -grown plants. So let's see how I do with Cotoneaster... For list members, I DO HAVE A PILE OF SEED! Shipping plants with soil attached from Newfoundland is a no-no a/c potato disease quarantine - there may be Dept of Agric permissions available for shipping under certain conditions, but I'm not going to risk it. My real challenge/hope this year is to get Aconitum carmich. to germinate - fresh seed, sown over a month ago in a tray, will get buried.... under the first big dump of snow.
Bill in SE Newfoundland
I took the cuttings of Cotoneaster bullatus..... on a cold January day! Then I tried out the new camera - it will take a while.
Interesting that there are tiny shoots showing - December wasn't all that frigid. My (dahlia) storage area is below 50 Fahr, and the other half of the basement is about 65 Fahr. I can enclose the 3 pots/tray in a clear plastic bag........ the soil is a sterile mix, and I spritzed the lot with a fungicide spray. Might I have a recommendation as to 1. grow cool, or 2. grow warm ? I know this is not the normal time to take cuttings, but 2005 was a crazy year all round. The pic shows 3 pots containing about 24 cuttings.
Bill in Portugal Cove-St. Philip's, NL, Canada
Around Feb. 10, the twigs with one inch leaves showing developed fuzzy fungus. I removed the clear plastic tent and sprayed with NO DAMP heavily. The next day the twigs looked very dead. (sigh) I don't know if the fungus did the job, or the fungicide, or the removal of the tent. I knew it wasn't "recommended" to try cuttings in January. After a week of waiting , I checked for hair-roots - None! I chucked the whole lot on the compost pile. Interesting that the cuttings did produce growth to a certain extent.
Bill
Top growth on cuttings is not necessarily a good thing. It's like having flowers in a vase of water -- they grow or open because they are getting some water and have reserves within, but there are no roots.
I've seen cut logs a foot in diameter lying on the wet ground sending up epicormic shoots several inches tall. But once the log's reserves are tapped, the shoots are toast. One notable exception is to use such shoots as softwood cuttings or perhaps air layers.
Guy S.
Only just seen this for the first time - yep, Cotoneaster bullatus it is. This one's quite common around here.
Resin
I did it as a lark. I have seeds sown, too. I have often seen 'twiggy bits' show green shoots in a Christmas arrangement (e.g. Cornus stolonifera). If I do it again, it will be at a more appropriate time of year. Light from the basement window was minimal too.
There are very few Cotoneaster bullatus here...... I do believe it is a tree worth disseminating/propagating here.
FYI, the first (of 20 pots) edible chestnut has germinated.... 2 taproots with one 3" stem.. Others are showing good signs.
Weather bomb starting midnight Friday, going on 'til Sunday. Snow and northerly wind!
Bill in SE Nfld
