Dawn Redwood or Baldcypress?

I have a spot in my yard that I would like to put a dawn redwood or a bald cypress . I dont know which one would be the better choice. The redwood seems to hold its conical form longer than the cypress, which becomes flat topped with age. Would the redwood be as hurricane resistant as the cypress? My yard is not swampy, it can become a little dry during the later summer months. Any suggestions?

Hi. They both have surface roots and the Dawn Redwood is known to get a buttressed trunk with age. Both take drought and, in my opinion, both are "hurricane sturdy". The surface roots can be hard to mow over. I've seen both trees at about 20+ years and they both look somewhat conical in shape. The Pond Cypress (Taxodium ascendens) is more columnar and ferny foliage - I have one and like it. Both trees you are looking at have simular/same characteristics and merit.

The Dawn Redwood (Metasequoia glyptostroboides) is a great tree. The Pond Cypress (T. ascendens) is a great tree. Both of those need somewhat swampy conditions to do best. One of the biggest misconceptions with Bald Cypress is that it is often assumed that it has to have "wet" soil, it doesn't. I think your best bet, out of the two trees you listed, is going to be the Bald Cypress (Taxodium distichum). It's indigenous to your state and might be more likely to survive. Another added bonus is that I believe once established, the Bald Cypress would be considerably more tolerant of being dry in those few months of summer more so than T. ascendens. Although the Dawn Redwood can tolerate drought to a certain degree, you might be a little too far south for that one. Zone 8 is the outer fringe of the hardiness zone for that plant and it is looking to me as if your are real close to Baton Rouge so you have got to be hot down there at the southern most tip of a zone 8.

Bald Cypress is one of my favorites. I have a few here. I sort of like the way they drop all their needles and I really like the plants I can plant around deciduous conifers that are acid loving.

Hey Libby! Happy Holidays! Sorry I've been out of touch for a little while.

I second your vote for Bald Cypress (Taxodium distichum), it is a beautiful statuesque tree, and turns a lovely shade of burnt orange before losing its feathery needles.

It does get in the upper 90's here in the summer. There are old bald cypress all along the mobile and tensaw rivers where I live, I'll have to take pictures and post them someday. How long does it take before they start looking flat topped? Is it just because they are forest grown? I prefer the conical shape.

My turf teacher has one at least as tall as her house, it's a two story colonial, and it has a pyramidal shape.

Hey there escambiaguy, let's put it this way... by the time a Bald Cypress goes flat topped, not only will you be 6' under pushing up lilies but so will your grandchildren. Probably a "slight" exaggeration but they've got Bald Cypress all up and down the Cache River Basin here in Illinois and I think the trees are about 500 maybe 600 years old. In answer to your question, they go "flat topped" in maturity. If you go for the Bald Cypress, I feel relatively confident you'll be able to enjoy a conical shaped tree for a very very very long time. One thing that I made a mistake on when planting mine, I forgot to elevate them about 2" above the ground. They sunk and had to be raised up which was a real pain in the rear. Mulch heavily around the base of the tree after planting to knock out competition and to retain moisture. I think I used regular old hardwood chips that were cheap enough. Regarding B&B on these, you might want to consider going for a regular old 5 gallon. Within a few years, the two would be about the same size anyway. Seems to me as if the smaller ones always seem to transplant better which saves you $$$ anyway. Best to ask Guy if this is just my personal experience or if there is actually validity to choosing a younger specimen.

Hey PGZ5, How be you? Merry Christmas... it's ok to say it, I'm not pc. I've been listening to Christmas music on 93.9 for over a week now. Everyone's got the spirit. Soooo, you've moved on to turf now, eh! Tell your professor you have a friend who doesn't believe in traditional lawns-
http://www.prairienursery.com/catalog/cat_nomow.asp
Just kidding, you won't exactly score points with her recommending a no mow that requires litle or no maintenance but I love to poke sport at chemical dependent ground covers. Anyway, are you done Christmas shopping or are you still out there fighting your way to the red light specials for those little "fill in" gifts like me? There are days I feel as if I should be wearing protection (as in football gear) to go shopping.

Psst, I forgot about that nice burnt orange color the Bald Cypress needles turned before they dropped. There's a crayon that is almost the exact color if you get the big box of Crayola crayons.

Well, i'm only 26 years old and i'll be living on this property for the rest of my life. I try to plan my landscape to what it may look like 40-50 years from now. Hopefully I will still be alive by then, LOL. My land was inherited and was overgrown by privet and other invasives. There was also alot of huricane damaged trees. So i'm kind of starting over from scratch. There are alot of bald cypress down here. Some are very full and conical and some are tall,spindly and not very attractive. I didn't know what causes these different growth habits.

It was my understanding Bald Cypress became flat topped somewhere in their hundreds. I do have one correction though. I looked up the age of the Bald Cypress along the Cache River Basin and they are 800-1000 years old. Oops, I was close but no bananas. What's a few hundred years amongst friends?

Tall and spindly could be a direct result of environmental factors. Any tree you have in your yard would most probably be nurtured because you have a vested interest in that property. I really don't think if you plant one of these that you'll have to worry about it being anything other than conical in the next 40-50 years.

I despise privet. Seems as if as fast as I remove those garbage plants... some neighbor is planting them as a hedge somewhere so they can come back to haunt me. Those darn Burning Bushes and Japanese Honeysuckles are plants that keep popping up here because my neighbors keep planting those too. Sometimes I dream of taking a blow torch their nasty plants and that puts a smile on my face. Not much I can do other than to keep removing them like you're doing. I have to live here so I just smile and wave and bite my lip if somebody asks me what I think about their plants. Wish I had enough backbone to tell them that I don't like them well enough to want hundreds of them on my property from their parent plants. Sure do wish we could neuter and spay plants like we do to cats and dogs. Good for you for going after the invasives. Lucky you for inheriting something like land. At the rate you're going, your children will inherit a prime piece of real estate. Keep up the good work of removing the invasives. And please do post photos when you can.

LOL Lauren I about fell out of my chair laughing at the picture of you blow torching your neighbor's plants, with a churlish grin and a spiteful Grinch glee! Oh no, make no mistake if someone goes so far as to Ask My Opinion, I really have no choice but to give it. I try to temper my comments with humor, really liked the way you phrased that "Sure do wish we could neuter and spay plants like we do to cats and dogs" regarding invasives. Try that out in public next time you're asked, would be curious to see how it flies. Suspect that most people just want affirmation of their (bad) choices, LOL. Prairie Nursery is one of my favorite sites, I have even received an e-mail reply from Neil Diboll re aster yellows in echinacea. (He referred me back to my prof.) Turf was a required course for the program I was taking (landscape management). Took the final today. Yipee!! I'm so glad that's over, it was painful for me, as I feel that lawns are just about the worst landscaping choice you could make, LOL. "No-mow" lawns won't satisfy you if you want that green carpet look, that's usually Kentucky bluegrass, or on the golfcourse, creeping bentgrass. Very high maintenanace, Big Business, $$$. Lawns are ok if you remember that a little goes a long way, LOL. There is just no comparison for some purposes, but in many cases there are groundcover alternatives that would be just as useful and satisfying, if not more so. But I'm preaching to the choir, LOL. I started my X-mas shopping two days ago, and I'm almost done, not a long list due to budget constraints. What did you get me? LOL Yes, I want a bald cypress and some more land, thanks. escambia, remember to diversify your groupings, Eastern white pine (Pinus strobus)and weeping Alaskan cedar (Chamaecyparis nootkatensis) would look nice with the bald cypress. In my opinion, LOL. :-)

OH my, now you want it all. Come on over and I'm sure I can "dig" something up for you as a nice gift! I've got some Kitten Tails that are threatened and endangered in the Midwest for you from an extirpated site. Yum yum! Come and get em!

You know, I've never used the spay and neuter comment before anywhere relating to plants. I did neuter one of my neighbor's cats after it repeatedly "marked" its territroy through my open screens. I sent it home with a note attached to the color that said remove sutures in 7 days or was it 10 days? Can't remember. Regardless, they never removed the sutures so I ended up taking care of it but- no more orange kittens all over the place getting scarfed up by coyotes and such.

And as far as commenting to my neighbors about their plants that keep ending up over here, I don't. I have to live here. If somebody stops over and asks a point blank question, I try to answer by imparting as little substantive information as is humanly possible without appearing to be evasive. These people aren't gardeners like all of us and they certainly don't want to be told that Burning Bushes flanking their front doors with the Bradford Pear smack dab in the front of their lawn are irresponsible choices. Around here it's sunshine and roses for every plant. Better for them to read about these concepts in a newspaper than to hear about them from me. I don't want any part of that. They pay the property taxes on their land so let them do as they so desire. Aside from that, I do believe laws are going to begin changing and we are seeing the very beginning right now with some of the "white" lists. There is going to come a day when people's expectations collectively will be that we may expect people to keep their "weedy" plants on their own property or expect them to pay for the clean up where they end up. Who wants to keep cleaning up the unwanted offspring. I don't. I've got enough things on my plate as it is.

Psst, I derive substantial pleasure from torching buckthorn Itake down over here with an acetylene torch. Snap Crackle Pop! You really need to get yourself one of those. They are really cool.

Would one of those torches be useful at controlling privet stump sprouts? How many times do you think it would take to finally kill it ? I have thought about buying a flame thrower. Very hard to find though. I have thought about it plenty of times. I would think if a plant was scorched 3 or 4 times it would finally die. Not that it has anything to do with the previous subject, I dont know if any of you guys up north are familiar with the longleaf pine. Its a very historical tree that its habitat has mostly been destroyed. Ive been trying to start my own little longleaf pine forest. Check out the website www.longleafalliance.org it's very educational. It decribes the southern forest back in native american times. I recommend people to this site whenever I can.

I still think you should look at the merits of Dawn Redwood. Supposedly the tallest is in Los Angeles http://www.travelconsumer.com/articles/laintro.htm and does fine with zone 9. Its adaptability, bright orange needles in the fall would be unique. The bark/trunk have unique "arm pits" under the branches and with the potential of producing a buttressed trunk with age, would take a hurricane better. If you are surrounded by Baldcypress, why not try something different. The tree has an interesting history, a great conversation piece for visitors. I found mention of old Dawn Redwoods in New Orleans, whether they are still there or not, I'm not sure.

I was looking at the longleaf Pine recently and want to bring some seed in for growing. I now have a potential source for seed. The long needles are very attractive and Dirr refers to the juvenile appearance to that of a Saguaro cactus?? Go figure. Too bad you couldn't make some money from the privets by shipping them north.

Ummm, a flame thrower might be a little overkill. A blow torch, eh! Now there's a toy that might be a lot of fun to add to the compliment of plant death tools. Blow torches trump acytelene torches which are whimpy by comparison. If I ask Santa real nice... do you think he'd bring me one for Christmas? Imagine what one could do to an understory thicket of Buckthorn with one of those! Makes my little heart go pitter patter.

Now about those Privet stumps, no sense getting all frustrated by trying to blow torch them because of those little sprouts. I have no idea how many times they would sucker back up on you if you merely tried to burn them. What has worked for me is painting the fresh cut stumps with Garlon 3 RTU. It is affordable and you can control the chemical application. Make sure you paint around the edge by the bark where the cambium layer is to make sure all that "good stuff" gets transferred down to the roots. It comes dyed so you always know which stumps you treated and which ones you didn't treat. Get yourself one of those little el cheapo paint brushes and flit around your yard with brush in hand while you are cutting them down and dab a little G3 here and dab a little G3 there, here a dab, there a dab, every where a dab dab and that will be the end of the Privet. You can also use regular old Glyphosate to paint the stumps. That's the active ingredient in RoundUp. If you are concerned about forgetting where you left off when treating stumps, add some dye from an Easter egg kit or you can even get dye in bottles over in the baking section at your grocery store. Green was the best for me. I have found the G3 kills Privet better, all kinds of Privet too from Japanese to Chinese. Go get that Privet! Show no mercy!

We're a little too far north to create an appropriate mini ecosystem for Long Leaf Pine. Have you ever been to the Pine Barrens? You have got to go if you ever get the chance. They've got some awesome carnivorous plants there too.

This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 11:37 PM

LOL I've heard tell that a little dab'll do you, but I never of what, or for what purpose! Learn all sorts of educational things here at DG.

Merely reading about the process ain't nothin my friend! Come up by me for a few hours and I'll teach you how to use a brush. I've got lots for you to practice on around here- he he he he he! You need to expeeeeerience the process and I can certainly help you experience the process here. It'll just tickle ya pink painting stumps when you use the right product and allow a little to dribble down the sides. All joking aside, I don't have any more Privet on my property because I hit it hard so it's all gone. I done still got me a couple thousand more of dat dare nasty Buckthorn though, wanna practice painting buckthorn stumps? Just let me know.

NO thanks Equilibrium , i've got enough privet to keep me busy for years. LOL

Sorry, fresh out of Privet this year on my property. I've got about 4,000 buckthorn still here that I need to deal with. I am probably at the halfway mark at removing the buckthorn. Yup, I've easily removed 4k of those nasty plants in the past 5 years. Another 4-5 years and I should have them all gone so that I can slide into maintenance mode!

To get a good look at both of these trees---in various sizes and in various stages of development, go to www.google.com, then click on "images" and put the name of the tree in the box. Latin or common name will do. In fact, you might try both so as to get even more images. Google.com images is the best place I know of where one can get the best idea of how a tree or shrub is going to look, in youth, maturity and old age. One of our members is certainly correct that the redwood will be hard, yea impossible, to mow around once it gets to a certain age. Both are indeed beautiful trees when mature. I personally prefer the dawn redwood, but just my personal preference.

But, if he wanted to choose the Dawn Redwood why would he have to mow underneath it at all 10-20 years from now? There's no rule out there that says one has to have lawn up to the trunks of trees. I agree grass looks nice growing right up to the bases of trees but there are options. I usually create a 3' ring of hardwood mulch around the bases of my trees but I have also planted perennials of all sorts around other trees that are in the lawn. I've got all kinds of ferns started underneath several Black Walnuts as well as other species and it actually looks nice. Petalostemon candidum is a species I have planted around the bases of quite a few of my fruit trees to fix nitrogen but more so to protect them from my husband's wild mowing practices. My wonderfully helpful husband was getting in too close and was nicking the trunks of a few trees. Then to really finish off some of my trees, he was "cleaning up" with a commercial weed whacker. Now he doesn't have to mow anywhere near the bases of trees I plant in the lawn because I either have them mulched or have perennials growing around or underneath them. There will be many species of perennials that could be companion planted with a Dawn Redwood that would thrive down there by escambiaguy. Just another thought so that the Dawn Redwood doesn't get knocked out of the ballpark if he wants one and is worried about surface roots that will ultimately appear above ground over time.

Oh, absolutely, Equil! No reason at all to mow right up to trees. In fact, I buy dark, fine, hardwood mulch and put a ring of it around my trees to about 3 feet out from the trunk. Makes everything a lot easier.

Some trees, of course, just do not at all go with a lawn, one of them being Norway Maple, another being Sycamore. Norway Maple gets far too dense for grass to grow beneath it, and it puts out far-spreading surface roots, such that one would have to mulch for 20 feet out from the tree! Sycamore is simply a very dirty tree that drops branches and leaves all spring and summer long. Also, around here, it gets some kind of blight that makes it look ugly and sorry until the spring rains stop.

But sure, if one is willing to improvise and to be creative, there is no reason not to grow many different kinds of trees in the lawn. Great points!

Where were you when I was getting married over 20 years ago? Just kidding with you. My husband, with the best of intentions... has literally slaughtered so many of my fruit trees that I have lost count. If he didn't nail them with the mower, he nailed them with the weed whacker and what he didn't get... the kids drove into with their quads. I actually had one kid come in and tell me that his atv was stuck up against a tree and wanted to know if I would please come and "get it off" the tree. Imagine my horror when I walked out and saw the front of his quad up against my established Bartlett Pear that was bent over at a 45 degree angle with bark stripped up and off by about a foot. I lost a few trees to the game of quad chase. Believe it or not, it helps to have plants growing around the bases of trees when one has kids and spouses who seem to look for ways to kill trees.

I have removed all the Norway Maples on my property. No more, all gone. I don't think I have any Sycamores here but they are messy trees and I'd rank them right up there with Weeping Willows although Sycamore roots aren't nearly as destructive to driveways and foundations and such.

Dopes just keep planting Norway Maples in lawns though, don't they? People who are landscaping new homes for sale, in fact! The sycamore I had taken down last year was a good 40 feet high. Stinking thing made it seem like fall all year round because of the mess it dropped! I also took down one fairly large silver Maple and a small silver Maple just a couple weeks ago. Took the large one down because it was close to the house and was right in the path of the northwest wind that blows very hard very often toward my house. Took the small one down because I DON'T WANT it to get large! Silver maples grow around here like weeds. The sprout and grow VERY quickly, making them brittle and likely to break. One of the last things I want is a 100 ft high silver maple towering over the roof of my house!

I have some silver maples farther back on my property that I'm using as supports for wisteria vines. I had a feller with a stump-grinding machine come out and grind away the roots for 18 inches down into the ground right up against the trees. Then I planted my wisterias in the holes, and am training them up the trees. The trick is not to allow the wisteria to encircle the trunks or they will strangle and kill the trees. I think in about 5 years or maybe less the wisterias will look gorgeous, and they will help the silver maples to earn their keep and to be more stable.

I have a copse of willows at the back of my property where it's somewhat swampy, and those rotten things kept putting their roots out and making more willows, trying to take over the property. Finally, I got tired of it and went out 3 weeks in a row and sprayed Round-Up brush killer on the young willows, and I managed to destroy them. Yeeeeay! No more willows trying to encroach further and further into the grass!

I cannot believe anyone would actually go out and buy and plant a willow tree on their property except if they were terribly ignorant, OR were planting it under special circumstances, and knew just what they were doing.