"no man's land" planting ideas

Due to the topology of my lot, I have a long front property line about 100 feet. It comes equaly long what I call no man's land, a strip between the road and the sidewalk. It was an eye saw as the grass was long gone and I had to walk it three times with the lawn mower each weekend. So last spring I stopped mowing it and started putting in perrenials to make it a continuation of the naturalized garden of the main property.

One season past, I have learned that planning is very important in planting. With long winter ahead, I have a reason to be patient :) What I need is advice of more experienced gardeners. Well, and my garden budget is quite tight at the moment.

What I Iearned about the land:
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- it has east exposure
- 50% of it is half shade
- it tends to get dry from the side of the road
- the soil is heavy clay (I started mulching with leaves but it will take time)
- in winter salt from the road is dumped here

What I've done so far:
------------------------------
I only worked in the half shade part. There closer to the side walk I put in violets, which I love very much.
On the road side I put in daylillies, which seem to deal better with draught. I also hope that they will provide additional shade for the violets. I am wondering what taller plants I could put between the violets for the summer/fall interest?

The previous season, I put a small patch of catmint on the border line of the half-shade and sun.
It survided one winter and seems to deal with salt well. However, it tends to flop in August.
I wonder how I could keep it shorter?

On the sunny side, I am thinking of putting some grasses and lavander. Absolutely want fragrance here. Need very much your ideas.

Hello,
Does the terrace itself have a lot of slope and subsequent drying because of. I like the east exposure - all my plants do well on the east side. Lavander is very hit and miss in this zone. My main concern is about the saltiness of the site, I only have a few hostas on my terrace and grass. Mulching to improve the soil and retain moisture is a great idea.
Certainly there are options, I'll start thinking.
Al

Black Oak might have a shot at making it in that area and birch would but I don't know that you wanted trees. Not too many perennials I can think of that would last longer than a few years or so. Seems to me I have heard of people who tackle this and they dig out every other year or so and plant annuals. I'm not much of a fan of annuals myself... too much work to have to keep replanting and you'd have the added work of redigging and amending every other year.

I don't think I've come across too much that is able to make it in what you described other than noxious weeds that may not make you all that popular with your neighbors. I see people asking this question quite frequently and most of us just feel like shaking our heads because it seems as if sooner or later almost everything fails in salt. I really feel sorry for people who have salt trucks passing through and dumping regularly.

You've already planted daylilies and ajuga is one for shade that might have a shot at making it through salt. Some people have had luck with Bee Balm, Hibiscus, Peonies, and Gaura. People who live by the ocean often speak of using Atriplex complex. You might want to look those up whatever they are and see if any are hardy in our zone. If your attempts fail over the next few years, you may have to consider trying Creeping Bentgrass (Agrostis stolonifera). It truly isn't that unattractive. Agrostis should look nice and would stand a good fighting chance of making it through the salt. It may get beat back but it should regrow. This particular grass is supposedly one of the only out there that has the ability to bounce back from salt injury.

Gosh I feel for you.

Would you be able to make a barrier each fall to keep the salt off? Like a roll of burlap stapled to stakes or some thicker plastic? 100 feet is too much to try to protect, but maybe just a portion?

For the sunnier part, I'd plant 4:00's, they will reseed themselves silly, but you will have the sidewalk to help keep them in check. They will grow in the worst soil too, so maybe the salt won't hurt them much? Mine kept blooming untill the first really hard frost. I have a ton of 4:00 seeds, a mix of "Neon" and "Broken Colors", LMK if you want a cupful or more, lol.

mg

Equilibrium,
I have enough trees on my lot oaks, black cherry, some maples. It's practically woods, but not as pretty as yours. The strip of land between the sidewalk and the street is narrow only about 3'6'', and I am not sure that the city would approve of tall planting there. I wonder where I'd find what the restrictions are. I'll have a look at your plant suggestions closer, especially grasses.

bigcityal,
good catch! The street has a pretty good slope - about 15degrees. Nothing I can do about it, I think. But that maybe one other reason the soil get's so dry.

mornin_gayle,
I think I saw Four O'clocks only on fences. But if they reseed and grow on the ground, I'd like to try them.

Yes, salt is my main concern. I cannot fight the snow ploughs with burlap. A school is on our street, so the city cleans the road and salts is heavily. I wonder if that's why the grass does not grow very well, and most of my neighbours reseed regularly.

I've been reading 'Gaia's Garden: A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture' and am taken with the idea of no digging at this point :) At least not all of 100 feet :( So far things are going just as the book predicted - a derelict lawn was replaced by a vigorous carpet of dandalions. But I did have one nice surprise - lamb's ear (Stachys lanata).

I generally don't like annuals, but was kind of thinking of selfseeding ones already. Not sure how my little experiment with calendular will work out, but I had some seeds from exchange here which I planted. All came up with about a week of good watering. I collected some seeds and did spread some in the fall and saved some for spring. I think, enough to share. Unfortunately, I mixed the varieties up. If my mom is right and they selfseed, I'll stick with them.

Thank you for sharing your ideas. Do post as you think of salt and drought tolerant plants I could try or if you have concerns that I don't have yet from shear ignorance :)

OK, temperate species of perennial plants go dormant. That's what they do. Covering them up from December to the first of April would be no different than covering up a rose bush with those styrofoam cones. Rather than spinning wheels every single year what would the costs be of having an industrial seamstress (the kind that makes boat covers, rag tops for convertibles, and such) create a length of impenetrable "salt guard" that could be staked down to the ground with an overlap over the curb of 2" so that the salt is redirected down and away from that strip of no man's land. I could see where you could hammer cheap o stakes down into that area at 3' intervals and you could "tie down" your tarp to those. Street Plows basically never hit the curb because it reduces the life of the plows so I would think the tarp would be safe. The cost would probably be around $3-400 but I can't help but wonder how much money you will spend losing plant after plant after plant and a tarp could be used year after year and if a length of it did get torn, I can't imagine it being more than $25 to repair? All you would theoretically need would be the equivalent of a bib for that 3.5 x 100' strip of land. Something to deflect the salt back out and into the roadway and ultimately into the storm sewers?

Gosh, I apologize if this is a lame brain off the wall idea but I'd be looking to plant what I wanted in that strip and I'd be looking for a way to "shield" it. Which brings me to another lame brain idea... what about an actual 3' tall shield out there at the curb? Big deal if it inconveniences somebody. I mean after all they put up miles of snow drift fencing why not break away solid salt fencing? I mean the kind that if somebody leaned on it it would collapse? Something simple like lengths of table cloth vinyl sold at WalMart? Gosh that stuff is cheap enough. It might not look the greates for a few months out of the year but hey... who expects it to look great outside during winter anyway. It's not as if anything is growing at that time of year.

Forgive me for my interjections. I'm just desperately trying to think of what I would do if I was in your shoes and I think I would be running down the street pulling out my hair and screaming.

Equilibrium,
I think laying down and staking a cover may actually work as opposed to a vertical shield that would collapse under the snow pressure. I am going to try this for a streach where I have plants already and see that happens.
How would the plants fare with thow/freeze cycles? If the cover is plastic, would plants hieve more?

I looked through this site a bit, the zones should be similar. I do think one of the biggest things to help would be to loosen up and amend the soil, which would help with the moisture retention and also keeping the soil loose to allow the salts to flush out in the spring. Most of my grass along the street does pretty well. I live on a street highly maintained. I do think there are plants that are virtually nonkillable(I made up a word) that would work. I thought about a thread on that alone for newbies. I am not sure of the legality of barriers on the city's property .
http://www.cornhillnursery.com/tips/salttolerant.html

This message was edited Dec 13, 2005 4:59 PM

I'm not sure what you thought was a 4:00, but they are not a vine, they are a bushy type plant 2-4 feet high. Drought tolerant too! They open in late afternoon, so the people coming home from work will get to see a nice show.

From PlantFiles:
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/92/index.html
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53054/index.html

LMK if you want some seeds.

mg

MG,
I do not have any of those, but I have seen them on the heavy reseeding list. Cosmos ae crazy that way also. You might have to also see if there are restrictions on plant heights for you terrace.

Hey Al,
That list from Cornhill Nursery might be tricky. Some of the plants they list appear to be noxious weeds. They may be salt tolerant but enya_34's got to live there and if these plants go to seed in her neighbors' yards, she won't be high on the popularity list. You might have known there were some plants out there that were causese for concern as you mentioned some sort of a heavy reseeding list. I'd love to see the link to that as often times states are slow to respond to plants that are weedy by officially listing them as noxious because of political reasons as well as other factors and gosh darnit all, seems as if I was always picking the "heavy" reseeders there for a while before I figured out how to check out plants before I planted them.

Here's a link where one can check what is on the Fed's list as well as on the list for the state in which they reside-
http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/topics.cgi?earl=noxious.cgi
One would need the Latin name of the plant though. Let's just take Baby's Breath for example as most people aren't aware it is deemed a cause for concern in many areas. The Latin name of Baby's Breath is Gypsophila paniculata. If you look at the link below and scroll down, you will find that it is deemed invasive and has hit a few noxious weeds lists-
http://www.plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/topics.cgi?earl=plant_profile.cgi&symbol=GYMU

Lots of places on line that share "lists" also sell the plants. It may be in their best interests to share a list of salt tolerant plants because they might get a sale but the buyer is the one who ultimately gets stuck with a plant that may have "weedy" characteristics. If you are a member here, and post plants you are interested in... chances are people can share their personal experiences to better enable one to choose a plant that best meets one's needs. Other than that, I saw some great ideas to try at that site based on their list. Looked interesting.

Hey enya_34, Incredibly, it would be my understanding the effects of freeze thaw cycles would be reduced by blanketing your plants. Not at this time of year as it's too late already given we've already frozen solid a few times but if you got a tarp on in time, it has been my experience that plants that are blanketed actually are less susceptible to rapid cycling. Freeze thaw cycles can do a number on plants.

EQ,
A search for salt tolerant plants brough up a lot of sites that could be looked at. I will agree that it is only a starting point to her research. Yes it is biased - everyone is biased for one reason or another. The words "easy to grow" and "tolerates any conditions" are warnings.

Enya, If you have any other questions on specific plants let us know.

Hi Enya,
My ex-MIL has the same problem with regards to road salt and she is also beside a school!
Her evergreen is just about caput since the city began using more salt in her area several years ago and the grass was sparse at best. I remember seeing a white-flowered plant on her garland this year and last, so I phoned her up and asked her what it was because she gets a fair amount of salt flung her way and this plant doesn't seem to be suffering any.
She went and dug out her plant tags and says its this one:

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1545/index.html

She says that they smell nice and have filled in the area nicely on their own. Also her ground is pretty flat but it gets dried out pretty fast.

Might be okay in your area? We're in zone 5b.

Erynne

Equilibrium and bigcityal,
Thanks for the warning about the noxious weeds. The other side of the sidewalk has a naturalized garden with a stanning spring carpet of trilliums. I'd hate to introduce invaders.
I'll sure start with a possibility list and cross-check it against the weeds list. Though I suppose one cannot take the list literaly, e.g., I don't think, that white clover could thrive in shady area.
Am I right here?

erynne1973,
I like the look of Perennial Candytuft (Iberis sempervirens), and it's not on the no-no list!
If it's fragrant, I am already partial. DG reports it hardy to 3a and I saw in plant files pictures from poppysue, who is 5a. So it's a candidate.

mornin_gayle,
My mistake, the the trumpet flower shape got me confused. The height and shape of the fore o'clock plant seems perfect for the area. It's bushy hence will help retain moisture and tall so should not flop. Actually, none of the pictures I saw or descriptions I read said anything about flopping. It must be not a problem then. I think I can try it.

Breaking the soil and amending it is my priority. However, I'd like to try and do it without too much digging. I did mulch heavily with shreaded leaves last fall. Come spring, I am going to try composting in place on a stretch about 10'.

One idea from the permaculture book was to introduce natrogen fixes, like clover. I'd like to hear what you think about that?

While all clover may be excellent at fixing nitrogen, there will be downsides to using some. Trifolium ssp. would be a definite "problem child" that has most assuredly escaped cultivation. I use a specific clover around the bases of some fruit trees here to fix nitrogen into the soil as well as to protect them from my husband who gets a little overzealous with the lawn mower from time to time in that he has tried to mow in tight and has clipped a few of my trees. The clover I allow to grow out so no need for him to be mowing it. Basically, I created a ring around a few trees and planted Petalostemon candidum instead of mulching them. It's native to our area, it's a clover, it is excellent at fixing nitrogen, and it is often overlooked. It's actually quite attractive in its own right as a filler. Petalostemon purpureum would be another one you might be interested checking out. Both should be perfectly fine in your region.

Equilibrium,
Both Petalostemums look very attractive. I'll start looking for them. Should I look for seeds or plants?

There are some people who have had difficulty germinating this seed. It should have a cold damp stratification to break the embryo dormancy although some sources claim you can start the seed outside next spring by broadcasting it and you'll do fine but I'd say this plant would be a good one to winter sow. I winter sowed mine and the seed germinated just fine. I did not scarify mine but I did soak them for 24 hours then I changed the water and soaked them again before I sowed them on top of the soil mix. I actually started the seed after the holidays were over and plunked the tray in a snow drift. To start with a plant or seed is a toughie because that is sort of personal preference. Since you want to get something going in "no man's land" you might want to start with 1 or 2 plants and try one pack of seeds. I wouldn't go and buy 15 plants, too expensive and I truly think you'll have success germinating the seed if you winter sow it.

The P. purpureum is the prettier of the two and it is a butterfly magnet. I planted the P. candidum for moths. I guess it depends on whether you want moths or butterflies or both.

I purchased my Petalostemon candidum seed here-
http://www.easywildflowers.com/quality/dal.cand.htm
You might want to take a real close look at her seed list. She has some very nice offerings there and I always get very high germination rates from what she sends.

I purchased my P. candidum plants here-
http://www.arrowhead-alpines.com/index.htm

I have never purchased P. purpureum so I don't know where to get it. Sorry about that.