I need ideas on a major garden project

Hi All:

I'm about to embark on a major garden project and I could really use some advice on starting to prepare my soil. We live on 3 acres and I want to convert a lot of our unused acreage into productive vegetable and flower beds. Most of what we grow will be consumed by us but we are looking into peddling some of our crop at local farmers markets. My wife and I both have fulltime jobs so the goal isn't to make a living but to help our love of gardening pay for some gardening related projects we want to do. (Well, Solar etc)

We have done some preliminary beds and have begun to amend them. This was our second summer here so we had a chance to amend and plant a few beds but the results left a lot to be desired. Everything grew ok but growth was slow. Melons and corn, for example, started out ok and produced fruit but they never progressed past the juvenile stage. I attribute that to poor soil and I am working to correct that. Some stuff grew great. But I know we can do much, much better.

Anyway, here are some pics of our current situation. Our site has certain issues we need to deal with. Aside from the soil condition, the majority of my beds are sloped away from the house, so erosion has been an issue. I have taken steps to make sure we put in raised beds. Bedrock is another issue but I try not to plant where the rock is (Smile) Here is the first bed behind the house. I'm not sure what the current size is but we are going to square it off slightly so that it measure 34 feet wide by 28ft deep. My field peas and green beans (pre JP Beetles) did well. Tomatoes did ok. I have it covered with grass clipping and mulch right now.

Here is a view from the back of the house. As you can see, the slope is pretty significant. Erosion in certain parts of this bed was a real problem. I put in the garden edging and added a ton of organic matter to the bed and it helped the situation considerably. Now I don't have problems with mini rivers running through the bed but I still experience significant pooling problems. There was also a decent amount of sand in the beds. But adding organic matter helped immensely.

I am going to have most of the marked pines you see removed. I plan to build beds throughout the areas freed up by their removal. Most of the ground amongst them is very, very rocky. Just huge slabs of rock. I'm going to pick the less rocky areas and build raised beds. I also am going to put some large pots down there.

I plan on putting a 25 x 25 bed in this location. We had 11 dead standing pines removed when we first moved in. The company chipped the trees up and we used it for paths to our other gardens. Although this area looks like it's just pine needles, underneath are the remants of the huge wood chip pile that was here. Been sitting here about 18 months now. Should I scape it up and remove it or build beds over it?

Once you get past the stand of pines and head a little more down the hill, you hit a series of beds we have been working on since we got here. The large bed in the middle is fairly fertile, probably the best out the bunch. We are going to square it off to 25X14 and raise it a little bit. The bed at 3'oclock, we are going to square off to 12x7. The bed at the top left has 2 problems. It butts up against the woods and doesn't get all day sun. It's also very sandy. The one at the top right grew some decent potatoes but the soil needs work. It was also in the direct path of the runoff comming off the hill. I built another bed whose front edging carries the runoff to the woods so the situation is somewhat better. My goal here is to reduce my walking space and increase my growing area, so I'd like to increase the bed size whenever possible.

Here are some additional beds. I grew tomatoes and squash in them this past summer which did ok: Not great but ok. What you see now are cole crops that are still growing: Kale, Collards, turnips, mustards and spinachi. Once again, ok but not great. The problem with this bed is that it dries out very, very easily. We have to over water it to keep the plants healthy. Needs a lot of work

We worked on this bed this past weekend. 25X34. Took out several stumps. If you look closely, you can see the face of the dead 60 ft pine we had taken out when we moved in. The stump compost looked great but we spread it out to age just in case. We had green beans planted in the front part where you see green. But the deer came out of the woods and ate them. And what the deer didn't get the JP Beetles did. We also tried corn back there but while we got ears, they didn't get big. The stalks grew but not the ears. The dirt here is pretty good. Nice texture. Little rocks. Looks like it just needs some amendments. We pulled out most of the roots of the trees that were taken out. Just needs amending and I need to grow crops the deer won't mess with ( They didn't mess with any tomatoes or squash or melons)

So this is my project. Any advice would be appreciated. The main thing is that this is a big project and I don't want to go broke getting my foundation correct. I've started hauling leaves out of the back woods to use for compost and thanks to this great website, I've learned about alfalfa tea and how to combat JP beetles (they wiped me out last year)

Happy gardening

You might try green manure. Cover crops. I've used winter rye and buckwheat
(winter & late summer respectively) but there are probably better options to build
up soil fertility.

And you sure are ambitious! That's a lot of work.

Thanks:

I've heard about cover crops. How long do they have to be grown in order to be effective?

Buckwheat 3-4wks and winter rye you seed at the end of the season and turn
under a few weeks before you want to plant. Here's a link to a good resource
to get an overview of lots of options.

http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/ccrop/

Maybe someone else here has more first hand experience with some other
crops. Buckwheat was recommended to me to smother the weeds in my
garden after I harvested a crop. Winter rye prevents erosion over the winter and
adds organic matter in the spring. I believe it is alleopathic til it breaks down so
you need to turn it under a few weeks before trying to plant the area.

BronxBoy, looks fantastic. May I ask what book resources you're consulting at the moment?

Chickens are very fond of JBs and their (grub) larvae.

Hi Zeppy:

I haven't really consulted any new books lately. I've been consulting the web a lot. This site has been a very good resource.

If you know of any good books, please let me know.

My JP Beetle problem was so bad, I may actually put some chickens out there. Have you raised them before?

I'd break up the large beds into smaller, more managable raised beds that run along the contours of your slope. Your planting areas should all be level, such as in a terraced garden, and the permanent paths mulched to control runoff and erosion. Beds 4 to 5' wide work well for most people, allowing them to reach the center of the bed while standing in the aisle, never setting foot on the cultivated soil.

I'd suggest taking a look at "How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons. It is the comprehensive book about raised bed, intensive gardening.

Chickens love Japanese Beetles. And they generally also like just about any plant the beetles like too. There's the problem!

Wayne

Wayne's rec is the one I'd suggest too. I hear "Metrofarm" is pretty good too.

Chickens are great when the plant is big & less vulnerable. First, if I keep their favorites -- kale, lettuce, borage -- somewhere for them, they don't tend to touch the other stuff. First thing in the morning, when the JBs are sluggish, I would let the chickens into the garden, then I'd knock the beetles off of the sunflowers, okra, and beans with a broom. The chickens quickly learned to be waiting below. After they eat their fill, I put out the chicken feed by their house and they leave the garden for that and a drink of water; I then close the garden gate. Pretty easy.

Thanks Wayne & Zeppy:

I just ordered both of your suggestions from Amazon.

I have often thought that maybe the layout of my beds was too large to allow for efficient use. I often have to walk through my rows to harvest and I'd like to avoid if possible. The other thing that came to mind after reading your suggestion Wayne was that when I amend these large beds, I amend the entire thing, even the areas that eventually will be used for paths. So I can see I have been wasting money

If 4 to 5 feet wide is the optimal width, what about the row length? Is that as much of a concern? I'm assuming that my rows should run perpendicula to the slope of my land. Is that correct? And how high should a raised bed be?

Is there a beginning chicken thread somewhere on this site?

Thanks

Check farm life.

I've got chickens that roam freely during the day. I never had
trouble with the bantums (little chickens) but the big ones love
to root around my beds. The dig into any area that has mulch,
kick off the mulch, dig out little plants and take a dirt path. We
fenced the garden with wire to keep them out of the veggie
garden and now I'm thinking about how to keep them out of
my rose garden.

But ... I had a significantly less severe JB problem this year than
most did in my area. I'll credit my chickens. And besides - the
eggs are just heaven!

Gorgeous birds, Tammy! And that stone wall... ah, I'm thinking perfect microclimate for winter greens...

Bronxboy, you can search on chickens, or for more in depth stuff go to "The Coop." http://www.the-coop.org/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi Any question you ever had about chickens is probably answered there. Or at www.feathersite.com.



This message was edited Dec 6, 2005 9:55 PM

While width is usually a function of how far you (or your helpers) can reach, length is a matter of how far you want to walk to get around a bed. (Too far and people will be tempted to walk across.) Mine are mostly 4'x12' long, mainly because 12' was the width of the previous attempt of a garden when I got it. Having a standard size makes it easy for me to move cold frames from bed to bed as needed.

Run the beds perpendicular to the slope as you said. This keeps them level without making one end extremely tall.

A big benefit of breaking the garden into beds is that your work is broken up into smaller units. Early bed preparation need only be done for those beds getting early crops. Water only needs to go on beds that need it. Manure or other fertilizers go on beds that need it and not on those that don't. Crop rotation is easy to plan. And if weeding ever gets ahead of you, it's less daunting to set a goal of finishing one bed at a time.

Wayne

Georgia, eh? I was wondering how anyone was going to undertake a major gardening project in the Bronx! :+)) Glad you have lots of people to give you their ideas! Best with it!

Well I'm reluctant to give my favorite secret away. The "Chicken Tractor" which is a divice that holds 2 to 6 chickens. Layers are my favorite which confines the chickens to a fenced in wheeled area that you can move to any area of your garden. They are restricted to area near plants not on them so even the favorite food is left alone. I has feeders and water devices built in and laying areas to harvest the eggs daily. As you need to, you just move the tractor to any bug problem area and they clean up the area. Now I have no pictures to show you but just google on search for chicken tractors and lots of pictures are available. You have to pay for the plans but anyone can figure out how to buld by the picture. I would make it as wide as your access walk areas and push it along. Now you have vegetables and FRESH EGGS to sell in the local market. There is nothing better than a free range egg with all the wonderful color and density of fresh eggs. Pictures of my herb garden free of any pests. And dammage.