A VERY SAD DAY & LESSON LEARNED

A while back, I made a posting on a discussion thread about lighted violet stands and how "too much of a good thing was bad". I had (within the last month or so) put up another new stand with lights and was seeing what I thought were symptoms of too much light/warmth ~~ tight crowns, flowers not opening, etc. With the sun moving into its winter position, the window where I had placed the stand was starting to get late afternoon sun....which I assumed was contributing to the problem. Sooooo, I disassembled the stand, moved it into a different room, reassembled it, put the lights up a little higher, and placed all my violets on the shelves.
Unfortunately, that didn't help. I noticed more plants with the same symptoms and things kept getting worse. I did a little digging on the 'net and read where the symptoms of too much light & warm are very similar to symptoms of the DREADED CYCLAMINE MITE! Fearing the worst (but hoping for the best) I treated all the plants with a spray that contained Neem Oil......but things continued to deterioate. New growth at the crown was pale and HAIRY, new flowers were small deformed and failed to open.
Sooooo, today I did the unthinkable ~~~ I threw out all the violets on that stand that looked infected and I quarantined the rest (which is only about 8). I think I threw out about 30!....some of which I'd had for years. (see the attached picture of the aftermath). Needless to say, I'm JUST SICK.
THANKFULLY, I have two different stands in two different rooms and I did NOT mix the plants....so some of my collection is still okay & I should be able to participate in the spring swap (and I PROMISE to watch closely for signs of infestation and will graciously bow out at the first hint of trouble).
I got to thinking "HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?!?!?".....and then I remembered ~*~ I had picked up 2 new Optimara's at Menards about the time I put up the new plant stand....and immediately placed them on the stand with the rest of my violets. They were among the many I threw out this morning.
So, a lesson/reminder to all of us...ALWAYS QUARANTINE ANY NEW VIOLETS YOU GET!!
I will NEVER make this mistake again.

Oh, NO!! Betsy, all those sad, empty pots are just a heartache to see. Needless to say, I'll hope to send you some new AVs this spring, although I know there's no such thing as "replacing" a lovely plant you've enjoyed for years.

I know I've seen AVs of mine with tight crowns like that, and fortunately I guess it was due to too much light and not mites... but I will certainly look through my plants and quarrentine any with those symptoms from now on! Also, your story & others have convinced me that I must be certain to quarrentine new plants, not use a hit or miss approach about it... I guess I've just been lucky so far. Thanks for posting a cautionary tale that sure hit home with me.

((((( Betsy )))))

Oh Betty I'm so sorry. I know I use gro-lights and close and run them 12-16 hours each day depending on the time of the year...and never had a problem.
Plants and leaves need to be quarrentine at least 2-3 months. Symptoms as you know are not going to show up over night or on new plants .... I don't care what book you pick up a 50 year old Av book they all say the same " quarrentine " It happens to only the best I think and have known so many people lose their collection.
Hek they say is your outside working in the garden wash up and change clothes before working on your African violets. Same with plants in " quarrentine " you can't work on them and just go work with ones that are ok . Mites, Thrips, Mealies any of tyhem can spread so easy and quicly and your not going to see them and barely see some with 30 X power magnification.
I am so afraid to even buy them from Lowes, HD , grocery stores , at those places you have no idea where they hav been their care all the other plants they have been around. Books will say no mater where you get your plants from even best friend to " quarrentine "
I am so sorry this happen.
Another thing people may be thinking about is it's cold out . there an AV's don't like cold.Yhey also need less water and need it warm/hot and water sitting in resovoirs can get chilly easy this time of the year causing mite symptoms also. Babies and plants not kept warm will grow slow and can die. Here in Florida last night it's been going down in the 40's. The day time has been 57-70 and our home is warmed by sun. I hate putting the heat on at night I don't sleep well. Well just from 5 Pm - 9 PM when we had out Christmas lights on outside and we have so many thousands I can't run plant stand lights my stands went down to 65. At 9 PM I put them on and my husband also put sheet/light blanket all around the back of the stans and side to make sure no cold air came in by the windows even though their new windows insulated and blinds shut cold can still come in . I also run my lights all night in order to try to keep the stands at 70 degrees.
At 5 AM this moring they were only 64 degrees yes here in " Florida" So I put the heat on 70 to warm up and the heat has been on all moring it's now 10:45. I don't want my plants to be below 70 .
So please beware of cold drafts, windows, doors opening. It can do a lot of damage to you plants .
Bettye I would use the Strongest Bleach and hot water soaking all pot over night in bath tub, and bleach all stands and anything use on your plants. I would Bleach all stands even the ones where plants are ok. I blach mine and my trays and boxes at least every two weeks.
Good luck everyone. We can all send Betty extra plants in the Spring :))
Allison

(((((((Betsy)))))))))))))))))
I am so sorry about your loss.
Patti

Betsy...sorry to hear about your violet loss. I'm worried that something like that will happen to mine...as I don't quite know what to look for.

Deb

What type of general insecticide should be used for AV's (and relatives) to control mites. Is there a systemic one safe to use?

also can someone post of pix of a "too tight a crown" I think I may have one like tht but the leaves look great. Does it automatically mean trouble.

thanks for helping a newbie.

QUARANTINE ANY NEW VIOLETS YOU GET is the only way to control mites. Avid is realy the only true way to kil mites :))

This message was edited Dec 1, 2005 9:05 PM

Betsy,

So sorry to hear about the loss of so many of your plants. One of my greatest fears is getting mites. I can also join in and send you plants in the spring. I've been trying to figure out what to do with all of the duplicates that I have and I would love to send them to someone who appreciates them. My mom loves violets, but can't keep them alive. I can't tell you how many plants that I have grown and nurtured and sent home with my mom only to find out she forgot to water them! I now only send succulents home with her. However, please do not hesitate to remind me in the spring because with all of my plants, kids and pets, I never remember anything anymore!

Stephanie

Now that I'm shaking in my boots (well garden clogs) I went-a-searchin' on this mite that would cause an infestation like this.
Here's a link with photos of the critter and the damage it does. And it would seem that they ARE visible to the naked eye, assuming one has 20/20, which I don't , so my naked eyes will likely need their glasses.
Hope this helps
http://www.steverd.com/violets/mites.htm

If Avid is the way to go, it isn't a cheap way. http://growersupply.com/miticides.html It looks to run upwards of $100. for an 8 oz. bottle.

Now, I did a bit of digging, and if I have it right, the active ingredient in Avid is Avermectin (which I BELIEVE is the same class of compounds as Ivermectin) We use Ivermectin on our horses when worming them. don't quote me anybody, but is is possible to use the less expensive Ivermectin in some way to treat plants as well? Anyone know?

ALSO this site had great photos of AV leaf problems and diagnosis
http://www.steverd.com/violets/leaves/leaf-id.htm

Anyhoo for what it's worth, the above is what I found...I'm still doing research....

You are correct As I posted couple post u Avid is the only way to really kill mites.
Leaves can carry mites just as easy as plants. My first big leaf ordeeeeeer of a hundred leavessssss about 2 years ago this Spring from BloomLovers Tina I think if I remember right ?
She sent in writing to " quarrentine " her leaves and any other ones you get.
" quarrentine " for 2-3 months......
I have never known anyone that could see Mites with out a 3x power mag.
Beg thanks for all your research it's much appreciated .
Also keep in mind there are several other things that can cause Mite symptoms and not just too much light. We need a list of mite symptoms and a list of symptoms that may look like mites and are not mites.
Yes I have had friend's lose their whole collections , even David Senk had Mites and he tried every natural way he could to get rid of them but had to use Avid at the end.
Don't panic until have had them tested, seen them under 3X and know for sure. In the mean time always remember to
QUARANTINE ALL NEW Leeeavs and Plants ....

I would first suggest taking any suspect plant to your county's local extension office,
they will check the plant out for free and that way you will know for sure that
you should treat for mites or something else.
There are many other causes that appear to be mites..

Can those symptoms be caused also by too much light or other factors making the plant unhappy? I'm going to go through my AVs and isolate any that look suspicious, but I have seen crowns like this on individual plants... but nothing that ever seems to spread to another plant, and a new location with different light or a repotting often seems to correct the problem. My eyes are sharp enough to see spider mites moving around on my other plants, but I've never seen anything on my AVs. Perhaps I've just been lucky. Nonetheless, I will now be checking periodically with a magnifying glass!

Hmmm.... if anyone has already popped for the $100 bottle of Avid, please Dmail me and maybe we can work out an exchange of some kind... It seems to me that even 1 oz would be a lifetime supply (with any luck!), as that would be enough for 12 gallons of solution.

First, I'm so sorry for you Betsy to lose so many Av's at one time.I also commend you for your bravery and it is a good reminder to all of us!

Here's a little more info for consideration on the topic.
I agree with Allison that there are many cultural issues that can mimic the symptoms of mites.

In my old Helen Van Pell Wilson's book on Africa Violets she states the the first and most common cause of tight centers is caused by over fertilization in combination with too much light.
In another AV article from the AVSA mag some test they recommend doing/or checking for to see if it's mites is to check the leaves. If they are green and just tightly bunched then remove them from light by placing in a hat box or other dark area for 24-48 hours. If they leaves start relaxing and the center looks healthy then it's proable ones culture.Keep in mind that the period of darkness only starts the process and it takes a few weeks to see the plants form really recover from over fertilization & excessive lights. Mites not only cause bunched centers but they ALSO distort the color of the tissue and form of the leaf.

I have several AV's with tight bunched center and long leaves reaching for the sky but when I flush the pots with water several days in a row and correct the light problem they relax and start growing more normally over time. All are healthy just suffering more from my lack of expertise at growing them than other aliments.

Anyway, (((Hugs to Betsy))) and the rest is just food for thought.

MsC

So sorry to see that Betsy. I had a similar experience with Calla Lilies. I don't know how many plants and how many new and named varieties I had, from $1 to $15 per bulb. Just when they were at peak blooming, I had a massive attack of soft-rot, killing most of them overnight (that's how it works, No warning.) . The dry heat did it. I saved a few by watering every day and sulpher-treating, making sure the pots drained well.

I was pretty burned of Zantedeschia fom that experience, in fact, I was devastated, and we don't want that to happen to you with violets! Hang in there, friend. I had to remind myself that these were only earthly things, and I had to realize that everything was fine, God was still there.

Kenton

Your so right Kenton these are all earthly things. So well said.
Enjoy your day ! Allison

Jill
I know when I was able to go to local group they sold the Avid to memebers for like $ 18.00 for 2oz. bottle. I guess it goes a long way. Sometimes
a group, or bunch of people go in o it together.to buy Avid . It is a good idea if
you have Mites to treat your whole collection. Mites can travel even on a person. Allison

Kenton...beautiful shot of your AV...please let us know its name.

It's a Noid, but I think it's a girl-leaf chimera in the 'Ultra' series.
Kenton

Does it ever send out suckers, Kenton? *hopeful expression*

Hmmm..... perhaps I do need to find my local AV group! I joined the local Iris society this past summer, but unfortunately the scheduling has been bad for me to actually make any of their meetings yet.... but I appreciate what I've learned from their mailings, anyway.

Oh geez, can you imagine how out of control this AV hobby could get if I joined a local society? Hmmmm... :-)

Besty,

So sorry for all that pain. I agree with MsC, you are brave. I have been going through a period of watching and waiting to see if the big "C" mite had infested my collection. It's hard. Luckily I have good news to report. I flushed all my plants and checked the heat in the room where they are staying. Made some changes and things are looking much better.

I'm beginning to be a big watcher of the amount of fertilizer used. The recomendations of most of the manufacturers is too much. I have been diluting by half the amount I use and am very happy with the outcome. When I hurray to get things done quickly and don't pay attention to the amount I am using I usually see problems within 10 days to 2 weeks.

Hope the Easter Bunny is very generous to you this spring.

Nanna

Violettreas, thanks so much for the link to AV leaf problems. that was extremely helpful.

Thanks to all of you for your empthy, sympathy, kind thoughts, offers of leaves/plantlets in the spring, and all the additional information. The symptom I saw that did it for me was the unusual amount of "hair" on the crown leaves. Once I saw that, I knew I had to do what I did. Oh it was a tough decision, though.
Thankfully, I have the 2 different lighted plant stands in 2 different rooms and after taking inventory, I found that I had a couple duplicate plants of what I had to throw out, so I was thrilled! Still lost "Garden Party", and "Looking Glass" ...which were two of my favorites that I grew from leaves and were waiting for their first blooms. =0( Ah well, as it was well noted, these are only earthly possessions and I am thankful for so much and blessed to healthy enough to be able to sit here and whine about it all! LOL
The Spring trade will be especially exciting now! =0)
Betsy

Betty
Maybee you could give us a list of the ones you lost . Between us I'm sure we have some of them we can send you in the Spring. Mom gave me two of her Looking Glass leaves nice fresh but I killed them
both. I also paid almost $ 40..0 for two Garden Party leaves and those would not root for me either. :(( My incomee was low but it drop a in half in August. Plus I use to sell some plants and leaves to buy new ones. That's too hard for me. So my days of spending too much is over. I'm sure I can get Looking Glass leaves for you :))
I think seee I had over 500 leeaves down ( now only 200 ) Theree areee
many times I can't get out of bed even open my eye lids . Then hubby and eveyone's caree goees into me and a lot of leaves/babies got too dry :((
Oh well material can't take them with me. I still have about 200 babies growing to share :))
Allison