Juglone and southern pines

Does anyone know if juglone produced by black walnut is toxic to southern pines(longleaf,loblolly,etc.).Also, would it be toxic to chinese privet? I have some pines that I would like to keep and some privet I would like to kill.

Hard pines (including southern pines) don't generally do well under walnuts. As for privet, I'm not sure if anything can kill it, short of some witches' brew glow-in-the-dark herbicide.

Guy S.

Your pines aren’t going to do well within about 20-25’ or so of a Black Walnut but there are many species that will not only survive but thrive within the BW’s toxic zone. I’m relatively sure there is a thread here that outlines species that can be companion planted with BW. You’ll be very pleasantly surprised at how many choices you’ll have to plant in and around your Black Walnut(s). Chinese Privet is unaffected by the presence of Black Walnut toxins. I’m sure you’re shocked to learn this.

Link to an article on Ligustrum sinense-
http://ecoaccess.org/info/wildlife/pubs/chineseprivet.html

Nick the base of your privet with a hand axe a few times. Sometimes I use the tip of my chainsaw to nick them with somebody holding the branches out of the way for me so I can get at the stem. Paint regular strength RoundUp on the nicks. Allow the RU to be transferred to the roots for about 10 days and then repeat the process on the other side of the privet trunk. Let it sit for another10 days and then you should be able to safely remove it minimizing the risk of roots re-sprouting and coming back to grace you with their presence ten fold.

Don't go after the Privet in spring or the sap will just force out the chemical. Best to get these in fall before they drop their leaves.

I really don't understand why this plants is so popular. Both the leaves and the berries are highly toxic and can actually result in death yet people use them as hedges???

Well,there is a pine forest bordering my property that is owned by a local lumber company. I dont think they would appreciate me planting black walnut nearby if it could harm their trees. As for the privet,i'm not surprised. I have tried everything you could imagine to get rid of it.

What have you tried to get rid of it so far? Glyphosate, if applied properly and at the right time of year, should work on Asian Privet.

I have used glyphosphate,triclopyr,and spectracide(cant remember the ingredient). The cut stump method works i'd say about half of the time. When spraying it on the foliage, the leaves will wilt and fall off and then about 2 weeks later they're coming back. The easiest thing I have done is cut it down and then spray the sprouts that come back up with a strong solution. I have posted a photo on plantfiles showing the privet infestation in the woods on my property. It's bad all across the lower south along with chinese tallow trees.

Foliar applications can kill off the above ground growth for the most part leaving the entire root structure in place to get nasty with you. The other issue is that you would sort of be randomly spraying the area and you will have issues with drift if you aren't using the proper equipment. There is actually an art in my humble opinion to foliar applications which is why I generally always try to control the application by using paint brushes and sponge tip applicators and such.

When were you applying the chemicals? What time of year? Both Triclopyr and Glyphosate should have been effective. I am thinking your application timing was off.

I'm really sorry about your infestations. I know how you feel.

Here, try this product- Garlon 4
You can order it from here-
http://home.conservfs.com/

Pricey but worth every dollar. As a surfactant, use mineral oil. Do not get cheap and use diesel fuel or you will be creating more problems than you could ever imagine. You mix it 15 parts G4 to 85 parts mineral oil. I tend to go a little heavy handed with the ratios and probably mix at 1 part G4 to 4 parts mineral oil. A good surfactant will serve you well in aiding absorption whether using undiluted or not. Do not opt for Garlon 3 in this situation. Garlon 4 has the more active ingredient and it is actually safer to use.

Here's some info on Garlon-
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/triclopy.htm

Regarding your Chinese Tallow, somewhat different plan of attack on those. Take the stump down to about 14". Drill some small holes around the perimeter and get as close to the cambium layer as possible. Paint the stump and fill up the holes and let it ooze on down. If the plant suckers, you've got a second chance at taking a swipe at it with your chainsaw and retreating newly exposed stump so you can redrill new holes and retreat. That should take care of those nice Tallows quite nicely. Come to think of it, I think Garlon 3 RTU is extremely effective on those little buggers. Basal bark applications should serve you well too if done in fall.

Where the heck is Caron? She'll have other ideas.

This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 11:38 PM

How do I do basal bark treatments? What kind of base do I use to mix with the chemical? Also, what kind of sprayer do I need? All I have is a regular pump up sprayer. I made some girdle cuts about 3/4" deep on alot of them last year with my chainsaw and squirted triclopyr into the cut. It killed some of them but some are still living. Maybe I didn't go deep enough.

Hey escambiaguy, I'm going to D-Mail Caron and drag her out of the closet. She's best to help you with these types of applicator questions. Please hang in there while I dm her. She often goes out into the field to manage nasties for a few weeks at a time so please be patient.

I can answer your questions about how to do a basal bark application but I think we need an expert in here right now.

Regarding this, "I made some girdle cuts about 3/4" deep on alot of them last year with my chainsaw and squirted triclopyr into the cut"- what month did you do this and did you do this to the Tallow or to the Privet? Also too, it isn't necessarily the depth of the cut but more how much of the cambium layer is exposed. I'll watch this thread and get you some photos tomorrow if I can. I know how frustrating this can be.

This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 11:41 PM

I made the girdle cuts to the tallow trees. I usually go into the woods to do things like this during the winter so the snakes and mosquitoes are not so bad. And also so I can see more clearly through the brush. I work evenings so i'll check the post again tonight when I get home. Thanks for your help.

This is my fault for using the word nick. I should have explained myself better by going into considerably more detail. I'm sorry. I was taught to girdle a tree by removing the bark in a 6" ring near the base of the tree say a foot off the ground. I have always figured that if 6" was good... 10-14" was better so I either whack/strip/peel (nick) off the bark with a hand axe all the way around or I take the chain saw to it and sort of drag (nick) it up and down ever so lightly until the cambian layer is fully exposed. To this newly exposed area I paint my chemical of choice. The cambian layer of the plant is the narrow band of cells between the bark and the xylem. Girdling works best in spring/early summer. I'm not familiar with girdle cuts. I don't know how well those would work because you are getting into the true wood of the tree (xylem) not the new growth (cambian). Certainly doesn't mean that girdle cuts don't exist though but I would not think they would be used for killing a tree. The xylem on the inside is partially dead tissue that remains and continues to conduct water upwards toward the leaves. Chemicals that are directed toward this area of the tree via a girdle cut would go up not down. The cambian layer sends sugars from the leaves down to the roots hence girdling basically deprives the roots of the sugars that form in the leaves. The roots won't starve out right away... but they will run out of stored sugars which would have enabled the tree to leaf out the next year. Applying a chemical directly to the exposed cambian layer speeds up the process of killing off the tree.

Dead of winter is probably not the best time to go after these plants. I would think that too late in winter and sap is starting to run and that in the middle of the winter the tree is totally dormant and these chemicals do have a shelf life. I think you are going to have to try to girdle them in spring/early summer or cut the tree/shrub down and paint the stump as well as drilling little holes in the largest trees to fill with chemical in the fall. Skip my comments about a basal bark treatment. You've got too many to mess around with that and no sense purchasing expensive equipment or having to take classes on using the chemicals.

One gentle suggestion, don't work alone. And if you can get your hands on any dye to add to your chemical, you might want to do this because sometimes I forget what was painted with chemical and what wasn't. There's a great blue die out there that spells out visually for me which stumps I have treated and which ones I haven't which greatly reduced my use of chemicals. I hated standing there with my finger on the side of my head trying to figure out which ones were treated and which ones weren't because I couldn't remember. Most of my stumps were double treated back then which was a major waste of money.

Oops, I forgot to mention that I D-mailed Caron for you. If she was around she would have gotten back to me so I suspect she is gone which is why I took a stab at offering you information above. I feel you are chomping at the bit to take down a few nasties. As soon as she has access to a computer she will pop in here. They do not provide the staff with wireless computers when they go out in the field and I don't even think they give them cell phones... not that they would work where she has to go though. Caron will correct any and all errors I have made above as soon as she can.

Thanks