Wildflowers vs. weeds

I have some good native wildflower seed I want to use this year, but I have a quandry. We're also trying to get the weeds under control, which involves using a pre-emergent herbicide. Somewhere I read tips on timing this so you can discourage the weeds while still having the wildflowers grow, but I can't find the information again. It had something to do with weeds sprouting after wildflowers, I think.

We will need to use this method for weed control for the next few years, at least, but I would still like to have the wildflowers. Has anyone done this?

Kathleen

I use a non chemical pre-emergent in spring.

What product are you using? An herbicide can't be used as a pre-emergent as there pretty much must be foliage present for it to be effective.

Timing will be dependent upon what product you are using.

Whether the use of this product will negatively impact your wild flowers or not is dependent on two things- what types of wildflower seeds are in the mix and what product you will be using.

Early this year we had a service come out and spray with round-up and a preemergent mixed in -- not sure what they used. I plan to be better informed the next time, which is why I'm researching methods. Whatever it was worked, as our neighbor's weeds started up with a recent rain and ours did not -- we both have large bare areas on our land.

I found the information I had read before at http://www.laspilitas.com/advanced/advsprays.htm but I had it backwards (weeds before wildflowers) and he was specifically talking about weeds in shade under trees. He rambles a bit, and it's sometimes difficult to unravel his thoughts! :-) We are near the Las Pilitas So. CA location, and I had planned to talk to them about it, too. I have a problem identifying the weeds (except the mustard!).

We are landscaping with CA natives, and the seed mix I have is specifically that (don't have it near right now). Even with spraying, we still got some native volunteers late spring and early summer, but I would like to have a mix of wildflowers in the spring.

I'd be interested in what you use and how?

I rely heavily on corn glutten meal. I know there's a thread here somewhere that discusses it. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll share all that I know.

I'm thinking that your service didn't spray everything with RoundUp or everything would be dead. Perhaps they used an herbicide specifically for broad leaf weeds? Round Up will literally... round everything up and kill it.

Las Pilitas is about as good as it gets. You found a great resource. If he rambles a bit in his writings, forgive him. You do realize that you can pick up the phone and call them for help, right?

If you purchased your wildflower mix from Las Pilitas, I'm relatively confident you have all actual wildflowers that are indigenous to your region. If you purchased your wildflower mix from another source, best to pull out your bag and list out every plant that's in that mix. Lots of wildflower purveyors capitalize on the buyer not knowing that introduced weedy wildflowers naturalize just as wildflowers that are indigenous to the US naturalize. I can't count how many people had to toss their wildflower mixes in the trash once they found their wildflower mixes contained seed to Queen Anne's Lace, Dame's Rocket, and Ox-eye or Shasta Daisy in it and I've actually seen some wildflower mixes that have Crown Vetch in them and other incredibly noxious weedy type flowers that end up setting seed and volunteering over in one's neighbor's yard. This can make one's neighbors unhappy.

I think it was HGTV that did a little program on weeds in the wildflowers and how to avoid invasives recently so they might have a list of what some nurseries are using as cheap fillers in their alleged wildflower mixes.

If you're seeding you don't want to put down pre-emergents OR corn gluten meal. The corn gluten meal will prevent seed from germinating, and then if anything is lucky enough to live through that, the pre-emergent will kill it.

The process for starting a native planting is this, boiled down:

Round up the area you are going to be seeding into at least 3 times, at 4-6 week intervals. Round up, let stuff die, remove it(or not), water area to encourage new weed growth, Round up again, water, etc. What you are trying to do is exhaust somewhat the weed seed bank in your soil. You can safely plant seed 2-3 weeks after the last application of Glyphosate.

OR...solarise the area for a year. Which means cutting the weeds down to about an inch tall, and spreading a clear plastic tarp over the area, making sure to stake it down. Keep it there for a year. This method will kill weed seed in the top 2 " of soil.

In both of these cases, in your plantings first season, you have to keep everything mowed to 6-8 inches in height..this will keep the weeds from going to seed, but will not harm the native plants.

In the second growing season, you mow once in early spring, very low. The key word for native plantings is patience...you will not have an instant wildflower meadow.

I'm sure Las Pilitas will be able to fill you in on more details.

That is correct, corn glutten meal will stop wildflowers from germinating along with everything else. You have to watch your timing or keep the corn glutten meal out of the area where the wild flower seed would be broadcast.

The other way to hit it is to allow the wildflowers to germinate then use the corn glutten meal.

Best to explain to her why mowing will not harm the native plants. So you take it from here on that Dodecatheon.

Back to the corn glutten meal... it is a nonchemical pre emergent. It won't kill anything, it just won't allow the embryos to break dormancy and in addition to being a great pre emergent, it also fixes a tremendous amount of nitrogen into the soil for anything that is already growing.

Thanks for the responses. I think I will go with my backup plan for now, which is a small plot or strip of wildflowers -- while we continue the weed control. I'm not really going for a meadow, but wanted something growing on the large bare area until we can afford to plant it. I'll try the seed out on a small area that's already been solarized. We've discovered natives are trickier than we though to get established, but we still think they will be worth it in the long run and the look is perfect for our location.

Re the roundup -- it definitely killed everything, but it was many months ago and we get a LOT of stuff blown in -- it sprouts on top of the mulch, too.

We visited Las Pilitas yesterday and picked up some plants for our big problem at the moment -- a south facing cut and fill slope. We're at that 'getting to know you' stage with both the land and the plants! Attached is a photo of part of the area in question -- our 'reserve' (we name everything around here) which we hope someday to have planted with paths curving throughout.

Thanks again for the help.

Edited to add: seeds are from Plants of the Southwest (California Coastal & Foothills Mix) -- California poppy, tidy tips, baby blue eyes, five spot, Ca bluebells, goldfields, farewell-to-spring, birdcage primrose, scarlet flax, royal penstemon, pastel poppy, lupine, blue dicks, and mountain phlox. What do you think?

This message was edited Nov 13, 2005 10:01 AM

Sounds like a great plan. Your photo is wonderful! You've got a lot of space to work with! Lucky you!

Las Pilitas is the best! So glad you stopped in.

Common names are hard for me. The tidy tips and farewell-to-spring I've never heard of before. I recognize some in your mix but you're way out on the west coast and I'm over here on the east. The Rockies divides us for the most part and many plants that are native wildflowers on my side aren't on your side and vice versa. You'll have to do a search to find the botanical names of each plant you listed. For example, California Poppy is Eschscholzia californica. From there I find the easiest way to determine if a plant is introduced (doesn't originate from this continent) is to type in the binomial and the words native range into a search engine like google. If that doesn't work type in the binomial and the word origin. You will find your Eschscholzia californica is a native to North America. Now from there type in the binomial (Eschscholzia californica) and the word invasive. This species you have in the mix is not listed as invasive. Remember, a plant can be native or introduced and be invasive. Most plants that cause the greatest concern are plants that are non native and invasive but there are quite a few natives that are botanical bullies out there and sometimes it is best to steer clear of those too.

Go and cheat... Las Pilitas is a good company. Call them and tell them which species you have in that wild flower mix and I'm sure they'd tell you which, if any, are cause for concern.

We get 99% of our plants at Las Pilitas -- their So. CA nursery is just a few miles from us. The staff is SO helpful and always come up with answers for our special needs -- plus they are good looking (and read DG messages!). LOL

Yes, we feel blessed with our property, though it is a little over our abilities at the moment. We are reconciled to delayed gratification, though! We're working from the house out -- that way we have pretty stuff to look at which is very encouraging.

I will keep those search tips in mind. I am learning the 'binomials' (great word) -- sometimes I don't know the common name at all -- but it's all new. Some of the flowers in the mix are in my CA wildflowers book. Tidy tips = Layla platyglossa; FTS = Clarkia amoena.

Kaper, your planting will look wonderful! Be sure to include some native grasses, grasses can help hold the forbs(flowers)up so they don't flop. Best of luck!