question about earthbox.

Hello:
I just have a quick question regarding used soil from earthboxes, as far as I understand you can reuse the soil up to 4 or 5 times before you have to throw it out the only thing you have to do is to place the fertilizer strip. Well my question is if I was to use a couple of my earthboxes for tomatoe growing, once the plants were done producing and took them out of the earthbox could I use the same earthboxes to grow for example carrots or sugar snap peas etc... the question why I am asking this is because tomatoes need some lime to increase the acidity in the compost, so would this extra lime hurt any other type of vegetables?

you got me but i'm sure someone (tplant) can answer that question.

carminator -- Good Question! I would think after a full season the lime would dissolve and it would be safe to use. I am growing peppers for the first time in some of my EB's and I'm certain they will be fine. I do add a little more potting soil every season and do take a soil test and found it to be in the 6-6.5 area which is OK. Big_Red would know more on PH. Let's go over to the Pepper Forum and find out?

Thank you so much T Plant, it's been a while. By the way I saw in another forum that you had to take your dog to the vet, I hope all is O.K I have two wonderful dogs myself they are like my children and I understand completely how you feel.

Hate to butt in here, but as a chemistry teacher... eep! Tomatoes like acid (low pH). Lime makes the pH basic (high). Putting lime on tomatoes would seem counterintuitive. You are therefore planting tomatoes in soil they really rather would not have.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and lime is really an acid. I work in acids more than bases.

After my earthbox cukes were done I planted one with salad plants (New Zealand spinach, radicchio, chard...whatever plants were still available at the nursery) with great success. I am planning on reusing the soilless mix I am using again next year but as I was cleaning out the tomato boxes this morning it dawned on me hat maybe there is no need for soil at all. I subscribe to the Mittleider gardening method newsgroup and they advocate totally soilless gardening.

My question is this...why not fill the boxes with vermiculite or some light, inoccuous material that absorbs water, and then fertilize regularly? The boxes would weigh considerably less and it would be possible to carefullly regulate their feeding. It would be sort of like hydroponics outdoors. Any thoughts or am I out in left field on this?

theinfamousj:
I bet you are right, I am new to planting anything. The earthbox expecifically tells you that you have to put about a cup of lime and mix it with the top soil. I believe the reason is to reduce the chances of getting blossom-end rot but what do I know, maybe one of the tomatoe experts will be able to tell us whether or nor whe need to put lime on the ground.
Let me start a new forum in the tomatoe section, I would like to know the rasoning behind it also.

escubed:
That sounds interesting, I almost broke my back trying to lift one of those earthboxes, the only question I have is whether or not this inoccuous material would be more economical, also does vermiculite have all the nutrients that plants need to grow? I usually mix some vermiculite with top soil for aeration.

carminator1,
Hopefully someone over in tomatoes will know. I am curious to know, now. Especially since I had hopes of growing container tomatoes and was planning to augment my soil to the acidic side.

The lime has a very small effect on the pH. Now I'm interested enought to stick a meter in one with and one without. Tomatoes get all the acid balance they need from the peat based mixes we're using in the boxes.

I called Earthbox on this and they said that you can use any single box for tomatoes year after year. Just yank the plant and the fertilizer remains. Then backfill the top with new lime and enough mix to bring the level back up. Of course I'm still watching after three years for results!

My first year I planted a box with at least one Better Boy. I have found since then that I am only one of many who has discovered that Better Boy suffers from BER when grown in the Earthbox. Wierd, but I've found several articles by other people that had the same problem. Down here in zone 9, the weather has been so hot and out of season, I haven't gotten much to grow. But there is hope: the nuclear fire ball just abated long enough the both of my remaining Earthbox tomatoes are growing! All is not lost (at least usually till around Christmas in these parts).

Good luck to y'all out there!

Phil

Phil: Sorry to hear about your better boys, I planted some myself this last summer and I did not get BER but I did not like the taste I am not sure whether or not it had something to do with the weather, they say sometimes weather conditions influence the taste in maters. It has been prety hot over here also and I am not sure whether the weather is going to change or not but just in case I started my winter gardening, so far I planted some little finger carrots and I am starting some brussel sprouts, I kept a couple of mater plants just in case the weather does not get cool enough, early girl and sweet baby girl. But we'll see.
I think next april I'll start with the heirlooms instead of hybrids I have heard that the taste is definetely better.

A comment on BER. I grew an heirloom paste tomato (Opalka?) and it needed lots and lots of lime to overcome BER. The local nursery people were not surprised that I was having problems with an heirloom and suggested that there is a reason some of the old varieties are no longer so popular. The other tomatoes varieties I grew, both modern hybrids, hardly suffered at all. On the other hand I did have bad downy mildew. Is neem the solution?

Here we go with the local nursery efficionados and their comments. Could it be that some heirlooms are no longer available because of neglect or cross breeding. I don't see why local nurseries don't raise and sell heirlooms ? They are certainly better tasting than hybrids and are just as susceptible to disease ! Anyway their flavor makes it all worthwhile. Just ask any tomato grower.

Carolyn, Why don't nurseries sell a wide variety of heirloom seedlings ? They don't even sell the seeds ? How come ???

Amen to that!

Carminator, I think you'll be fine using the boxes for other things. I accidentally limed 2 extra boxes when I was bulk mixing soil for 10 EB's. They both wound up with basil; one lemon, one italian big leaf. They grew phenomenally well, and this was with fresh dolomite lime in the soil.

As others have mentioned, I think the lime is more for the calcium than PH change. I had assumed it was because the tomatoes grow so fast that they needed the calcium more than a slight loss of acidity.

Regarding BER, Ritchh said he had some success this year using Messenger, coupled with diligent watering (twice a day once they took off). I'm going to give it a shot, I lost the first wave on 4/6 plants to BER, and I am tired of eating 1/2 tomatoes until July. :)

Chris

Chris:

Thanks for the info, I also heard about messenger from other forums, Tplant seems to really like it. I don't know whether I should treat my plants with chemicals this year or just do companionship planting I have heard really good things about it too, but I believe this only solves the bug problem not the foliage problems.

carminator1 --- Try www.edenbio.com for more info on Messenger. It is not a bug killer but a hormone that helps the plants immune system ward off disease. It really works.

This message was edited Dec 16, 2005 9:24 PM

Just ran across this thread, I haven't had the Container Gardening forum on my watch list, going to have to change that.

"the question why I am asking this is because tomatoes need some lime to increase the acidity in the compost"

Lime does not increase the acidity in soil but actually decreases it. It will raise the PH of your soil. Tomatoes like a neutral to slightly acidic soil (6.2 - 6.8) so you have to be careful not to add too much lime.

Hope this helps.

Red

Hi Red -- I keep mine at 6 to 6.5. The EB people recommend two cups of dolomite lime with the initial set up and it usually measures at that level after a couple of weeks. I bought a soil tester from Parks that not only tests PH but also soil fertility. A handy little gadget. After the second or third season I add one cup. The tomatos seem to love it.
P.S. The Market Wonders are doing great. Didn't have room for the others but anxious to try them.

My tomatoes had a bad case of BER with the recommended application of dolomite. I'm wondering if some varieties have a greater requirement than others. I was under the impression that the dolomite is more a source of calcium than a soil pH buffer.

It serves both purposes but BER can be caused by weather or irregular watering. However Enchantment, an egg shaped salad tomato, seems to be the most susceptable to BER. I really relish this super sweet salad tomato but no matter what precautions I take it always comes down with BER. Of course not all the tomatos are infected but at least 50% are! Weird as I do take special precautions and I do not use an irregular watering as I fill the EBs daily and it can not be blaimed on rain as we do not have any from December to May or a little longer. So you see, It can happen anytime to anyone but mostly at the early crop and gradually subsides.

This is why I like to use a soil tester. I purchased one from Parks for $25. Not only does it show PH but also fertility! One of my better buys and comes in real handy for the second season as I already added the dolomite as they instructed with the original batch but the second batch needs to be adjusted slightly if at all. Most of the time the meter reads 6 to 6.5 and the tomatos love it.

Hi T,

That's because a lime treatment is usually only needed every 3 or 4 years. Dolomite lime breaks down rather slowly in the soil, hydrated lime breaks down much faster if a 'quick fix' is needed. Most pre-packaged potting soils have rather a high percentage of peat moss, which is acidic. That's why it's necessary to add lime, it helps bring the ph level up. Do not use the coarser dolomite lime as it takes many years to break down and show any significant improvement to your soil, finer is better.

Also, lime is not a cure for blossom end rot! This is usually, but not always, caused by too much water. To my knowledge, there is no known cure for BER.

I stand corrected! I just found this article from the North Carolina Co-operative Extension Services.

Irregular watering should not be an issue with EB's as long as they are kept full. Although it did take daily watering to keep up during the warmer part of the summer. Ther variety I had the most problem with was Opalka a highly recommended paste tomato (which my wife wasn't really to thrilled with anyway). Perhaps there is a genetic predisposition for BER as this is a smallish, egg shaped tomato. Big Red, sounds like the solution for EB's is the foliar spray. Now what can I do about my mildew problem?

They say foliar sprays work well for tomatos? I've never found this to be so! I stopped using them a few years ago when I noticed absolutely no difference. As a matter of fact it killed my tumblers. I sprayed in the evening and next morning all six were dead. Never used them again.
For mildew use Ortho Garden Disease Control. If you have mold on tomato plants it could mean poor air circulation which means to prune some.

By irregular watering you can run them pretty low on water. I always water daily and about the same time every day. This still does not prevent BER but I feel it limits it. There is no cure for BER at this time.

This message was edited Jan 9, 2006 8:04 PM

Thanks for the pruning suggestion Tplant. My tomatoes were everywhere, truly spectacular growth but I can see how it could cut down on air movement. I'm seriously considering trellising the tomatoes this year. I had great luck trellising my cukes (which was where I first noticed the mildew come to think of it). Any suggestions for mildew resistant varieties? I'll spray if I have to but prefer to keep it to a minimum.

I have trellised my tomatos and in fact still have three of them. I don't use them anymore but that doesn't mean I won't. If growing the egg shape or tiny pear shape tomatos I'll break out the trellis because they tend to sprawl especially the Yellow Pear and Fargo. Must say they do look pretty on a white trellis with a bright red fruit "Enchantment" and also yellow on a white background.