I bought a helleborus last May. It has been in a shady place since then and has done nothing. Not one new leaf, nothing. Now just this week, it's doing something! But what? I know they bloom in late winter, but is it going to bloom now? Or is it finally shooting up some new growth?
This picture was from a few days ago. I'll go back out and get one from today and post that, too.
Okay, I think my newest picture shows that it's probably just new growth, which I'm happy about. From what I understand, it's a slow grower. This is my first experience with it.
kbaumle,
Good for you, the new growth is excellent. I have tried a couple in the past,,,they haven't come back for me in spring,,maybe will try them again sometime.
Kelly
My mom has a couple that are just huge (by comparison to mine). Of course, that woman just looks at something and it grows.
Mine just started putting out new leaves. I think it has something to with the fact that it's a late winter bloomer? Will do some research.
Could be! Let us know what you find out! :-)
The hellebore was likely dormant. Many hellebores are evergreen and won't lose their topgrowth during their dormancy, but are dormant and will stop growing and might start to look a little sickly. I have a patch of H. foetidus that just "woke up" about a month ago and has been putting out lots of light green new growth and shoots that will darken up as they mature. Since they do start flowering in the middle of winter, the analagous time for their dormancy is through late spring and summertime. If you just look at late December for your hellebore as late June for a summer-flowering plant, your plant is just going through its "springtime" now, and if is mature enough and stays healthy, it should bloom in a few months. Do you know what species it is?
-Greg
It's 'Sunshine Selections'. And what you said makes sense. It has looked great all summer, it just didn't do anything!
http://www.sunfarm.com/plantlist/hellebores/sunshine_selections.phtml
This message was edited Oct 4, 2005 5:35 PM
Yes, after reading that, I'm sure you just had a dormant hellebore. I'm not familiar with those particular hybrids, but reading about them, they sound like they behave similarly to the H. foetidus (Bearclaw, or Stinking Hellebore) that I grow. It looks like yours woke up right on target for you. Enjoy it when it blooms!
-Greg
Hi from a milder zone. I grow a lot of hellebores; and yours is most certainly breaking dormancy. This might (or might not!LOL) interest you.
Your plant, helleborus orientalis (the lenten hellebore) has the most variation in flower colour of any of the species from pure green, to pale greeny white to apple blossom yellow and dark dark chocolate maroon, all of which can be variously stained or spotted. Unfortunately, they are very slow to clump up (from a commercial point of view) so cutting grown ones are MOLTO expensive. On the other hand, they seed freely----a lot of specialists have therefore taken to growing them in colour selected groups; and then offering seed or seedlings as: Yellow Selection, Green selection, spotted selection etc. There are also mixes; where the seed just comes from "good sorts" -- this may sound like a shuck, but actually I've never met a hellebore I thought was REALLY dull, except for small flower size or reluctant blooming, and these are weeded out in this kind of selection
Your plant is an orientalis hybrid from a mix created by Sunshine Farm and gardens (about whom I know nothing more) Whiteflower farms offers this pic of the mix http://www.whiteflowerfarm.com/30723-product.html
Hellebores are very prolific seeders -- if you don't be too tidy, you have really good chances of finding lots of little babies around the parent in years to come. Growing them from bought seed is a bit harder, but fun
Here is my favourite source of nifty seeds -- most especially hellebore mixes - http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chilternseeds/pages/banner.asp?companyid=211
hope this adds to the anticipation. Look forward to seeing your first flowers.
M
This message was edited Oct 4, 2005 9:59 PM
Thanks for the good info, hortensia! So they like to be under oaks, eh? It just happens to be shaded by a very large one. I can't wait to see it bloom, either! You can be sure I'll post pictures.
look forward to it
M
TOTALLY by coincidence, looking for kniphofia, I found this link for Sunshine Farms. I wish I wish with all my heart that I could order from them. alas, they are in the us.
but check this out!!! some astonishing stuff here.
http://www.sunfarm.com/aboutus.phtml
I am happy that you are posting about about Hellebores.I have 5 plants.Two are H.Foetidus that I got in July 04 from a coop we did with Sun Farms.This coop had lots of problems because the owner of Sun Farms promised the world and couldn't follow through.There were just too many plants offered.The plants he sent were very very small and alot of people,including me,had trouble keeping things alive after their stressful journey from the forests of WV to the heat of SC.and then to their new homes.
Fortunately my 2 Hellebores survived and are slowly growing.I hope they flower this winter.
My other 3 plants are H.Orientalis and are puting out new growth.They are divided into colors as you said.
Any tips on growing these plants would be appreciated.They are growing under live oak trees.
hi, i am a new member and obsessive garener/grower in Richmond, VA (zone 7)
I specialize in hellebores and epimediums, and have hundreds (literally) of hellebores in the ground in all combinations of soil and light...and the reason i have so many is that these marvelous plants will grow and thrive just about anywhere. Actually i need to qualify that by saying that hybridus (orientalis) and foetidus will, there are other more difficult varieties.
my plants are beginning to show new growth now and if i'm on top of things i'll throw a little lime and holly-tone at them and cut off any ugly old growth - if you're in an area that gets early frosts, give the new growth a little time to harden off before fertilizing and if they're new plants there's probably fert. in the nursery mix so just add lime
generally it is three years from seed to bloom, and the seeds are "ephemeral" meaning they need to be planted quickly, i collect seed in june/july, you'll get very poor germination from old seeds
foetidus has a shorter life-span and does not do well in pots but seeds vigorously, so if you buy select smaller plants and get in the ground quickly
i'm looking forward to sharing my enthusiasm (obsession????) for hellebores-
the very best thing about them for me is that i can find spring in my garden in
january
I'm really excited about the hellebores I planted in spring. Since I'm new to them and they're pricey, I just got a H. foetidus and an H. orientalis and some seedlings in a trade. They've all done as you described, just sat there all summer, but are sending up new groth now. I had'nt thought about fertilizing until it was mentioned above. Is now the time to do that since this is the growing season for them? Or is fertilizing required? I have them in ammended garden soil with other perennials that have been fertilized during the spring and summer.
mcgina, I really like epimediums to, and only have 1 now. What kinds and colors do you grow? I'm in a woodland environment and think they'd be a perfect plant here. Where do you get yours?
Neal.
hi neal, i got my first epis from a friend's garden (sulphurum-yellow and alpinum-red and yellow) and have over the years bought more at plant sales and from
heronswood (worth the freight and price, excellent big plants that i divided immediately) and currently have 15-20 varieties. this weeks favorite is "forhnleiten" which has great winter foliage and grows dense enuf to crowd out signal grass, bloom a bright crayola yellow
the epimedium guru of the world is darrell probst and his site is
http://home.earthlink.net/~darrellpro/ if that doesn't work google the epimedium page, he doen't do on-line sales so get a catalog
i tried to attach picture to my first post and it didn't come thru, trying again here with helleborus foetidus
Thanks mcgina. Beautiful pic! I'm so looking forward to winter blooms to help keep the winter blues away. Now, got to check out the epimediums. I got some yellow flowered form of epimedium from Dutch Gardens last year and they were tiny and pitiful. This year they both look about the size I would expect to buy; still small, but healthy. So I'm excited about what Heronswood has to offer. Thanks, Neal.
Thanks for the information, mcgina! I've got two epimediums, too.
About the fertilization of helleborus...that was a good question. Should we be doing that now?
As a general rule, I add a bit of time release fertilizer to plants when they show new growth. In my area, the helebores started showing new growth about two weeks ago. A good summary of helleborus orientalis (lenten rose) can be found at floridata.com and Gene Bush has a good article on helleborus foetidus (bear paw) on his nursery site, munchkinnursery.com. If I knew more about what I was doing, I would provide you with links. Helebores are great plants for the shade garden, and it's great seeing beautiful, long lasting blooms in winter.
I'm so glad that there is an experienced helleborus grower amoung us.
Welcome!
So far I have 5 plants.@ foetidus and 3 orientalis.They are pretty new and haven't bloomed yet and I'm hoping they will this winter.
Hi McGina -- nice to hear how hellebores do for you there. I would add one small quibble -- hellebore seeds are not precisely ephemeral -- once they harden off, like many seeds from temperate climates; they need specific conditions, or a specific sequence of conditions, to break their dormancy. I have had very good luck with imported off season seeds, just planting them and leaving them out in their pots for a winter or so.
Heronswood is fantastic, I agree, but it is also pricy. good seed is too, but you get a lot more plants for your money. I wouldn't want anyone who has no other access to hellebores ( or at least interesting ones) to be discouraged from growing them from seed.
M
Wow! Just found this thread, I have 2 Hellebores in gla. pots & was wondering just where to put them. My shade garden is quite a ways from my house & thought they might be wasted out there if they bloom in the winter. I have a wee bit of shade near the house, do they need to be in full shade? One is the Lenten Rose the other is, I forgot, it has gray green foilage. I can check tomorrow when it is light. I don't go out in the woods at night, lately we have had a bear after our apples & I really wouldn't want to see him/her up close & personal. My dog even stays in her dog house at night, smart dog!
Thank-s for any info. Bj
HI BJ. grew up in the woods myself (on the coast here) With Bears. no night time visits!!!! please.
Like everything else on the planet it seems; there is "accepted wisdom" with hellebores. And then there is experience.
In general, hellebores are shade tolerant; and lovers of cool conditions. They flower, theoreticallly, best where they are happy.
Here it is generally a whole lot cooler here when its hot than it is with you in CA (if you followed that tangled sentence congratulations!) I actually try to put my hellebores in situations where they get some sun; over the course of the day; just not mid day. I think rich leafmouldy soil with added mushroom compost is perfect for them; and a place which stays fairly cool.
but having said that, once I had to leave one of mine in a pot in the hot sun for a period of time. It bloomed like there was no tomorrow; and went on to be the biggest sturdiest plant I had. (It was an orientalis hybrid btw.)
I grow orientalis, foetida, niger and corsicus as well as seedlings of others coming along.
The bear didn't visit last night, gave my dog a break, she's neurotic enough!
The other one is Sternii. My neighbor picked these out for me when he went to a nursery in another town, funny, I wouldn't have any, had he listened to what I asked him for, I actually asked him for Rose Campanion, they had the pink with white, I didn't have it. He brings me back, Lenten Rose, quite a price difference from what I asked for. I guess I'll plant them nearer the house under a tree, the hostas seem to like it there. I have some seeds from a yellow Hellebore that I got recently in a swap, should I plant those outside or in my Seed House? Thank-x, you are a wealth of information! Bj
It's really going to town now. It started out with 7 stems, it now has 13. :-)
Hooray the witch hellebore!!! (Hallowe'en has me thinking mystic numbers :>)
Other people here have reported bad luck with hellebore seed; but I have quite good success using my busy woman's special -- I plant 'em in good potting soil in containers - clay, so I don't accidentally chuck them-- stick a label in firmly; then leave the pot in the garden (or near) where I want the plant ultimately to grow. I plant bought seed as soon as it is available; leaving the pot outside year round to subject it to freezing and thawing.
My favourite clay pots are those long rectangular ones that are supposed to be for windowledges or something-- I plant the seeds in short labelled rows. There is a more scientific method of freezing so long, thawing so long etc. But I have a life.
This works fine for me; and it is so cool to be working in the garden and, checking the pot in passing find little sprouties!!!
If you let your big hellebores go to seed; they will drop it near them and it will germinate right away This is the guaranteed method. But I have found that it is best to move the little plants away from their parents immediate vicinity to get the best growth.
send us pictures, everyone. Winter is the time when we most need to see those flowers!!! (me too, honest tomorrow.......;>)
Thanks for the planting info. I have clay pots so I will try that!
Bj
Hi folks -
I am really interested in the "ephemeral" issue, and have been cautious about seeding hellebores for that reason. I wrote to the uk seed source that Hortnsia mentioned. If they offer some thoughts about this question, I will share them. As for exposure, again, all the above advice fits my experience. In general, the more sun, the richer and wetter the soil needs to be.
hortensia, we do think alike! Guess the season brings out an affinity for noticing creepy, witchy, and dark things. Great idea with the clay pots to. I've wondered how to keep myself from digging them up. Just being my first year with them, I'm already loving watching the growth emerge now. Now the quest for seed! Neal
did you check out Chilterns??? somewhere I have an old table that Thompson and Morgan printed with advice on every seed under the sun. I'll look for it; it seems to me it was really helpful. sutton seeds (also UK) is awfully good as well, they package their seed in foil and this seems to preserve it a bit better. Unfortunately, the only outlet for them here is GardenImport who are grossly expensive.
M
I got an automated reply from Chilterns, saying that they answer all e-mail individually, and will get back to me. I'll let y'all know if there is anything interesting to pass on.
Peter
Dang. wrote a long answer, then accidentally went forward and lost it.
Here goes again: here is the info from T& M
Helleborus HP 30-545(days to germination) X (tricky & variable) 60-65 (temp) Well drained soil See No. 6. May need to go through two winters outdoors.
6. Alstroemeria; Bonsai; Clematis; Hardy Cyclamen; Eucalyptus; Flower Lawn; Helleborus; Hosta; Primula; Iris and similar.
Sowing OCTOBER-FEBRUARY. Sow the seeds in John Innes seed compost, covering them with a thin layer of compost. After watering place the seed containeroutside against a North wall or in a cold frame, making sure they are protected against mice, and leave them there until the spring. The compost should be kept moist but not wet at all times, and if the seed containers are out in the open then some shelter has to be given against excessive rain. In the spring bring the seed containers into the greenhouse, or indoors on to a well lit but not sunny windowsill and keep the compost moist. This should trigger off germination. If the seeds do not germinate in the spring keep them in cool moist conditions throughout the summer. As each seed germinates we would recommend that you transplant it almost immediately into its own pot.
Sowing MARCH-SEPTEMBER. Sow in John Innes seed compost, or something similar, and place each container in a polythene bag and put into the refrigerator (not the freezer compartment) for 2-3 weeks. After this time place the containers outside in a cold frame or plunge them up to the rims in a shady part of the garden border and cover with glass or clear plastic. Some of the seeds may germinate during the spring and summer and these should be transplanted when large enough to handle. The remainder of the seeds may lay dormant until next spring.
Germination of some items, particularly Alstroemeria, Clematis, Hardy Cyclamen and Christmas Rose (Helleborus) may take take 18 months or more.
better send this bit before I lose it again.. more to come.
phewf.
ok, and here, to whet your appetite, are some of the strains they offer:
Ê HELLEBORUS Blacks/Purples/Slates
Cat No. 678R
With these wondrous colours of the night, we should perhaps have called this splendid mixture 'Nocturne'. From it you can expect a wide variety of dusky hues found in but few other plants. 1-2 ft. Pac... Price: £3.67
Ê Ê
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ê HELLEBORUS 'Helen Ballard' Hybrids
Cat No. 682J
Based on hybrids bred by that doyenne of the Hellebore world, Helen Ballard, these must be some of the finest and most beautiful of the race we have to offer. Extravagantly large, waxy flowers, three ... Price: £3.98
Ê Ê
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ê HELLEBORUS Primrose and Yellow Hybrids
Cat No. 680N
This is something very special and very extravagant - a much sought after strain producing plants with primrose and yellow-coloured flowers. If you think the seed's expensive, just consider that for a... Price: £3.35
Ê Ê
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ê HELLEBORUS 'Thoroughbred' Mixed
Cat No. 680Y
From a superb collection of thoroughbred Hellebores we are very pleased to be able to offer these seeds which you will want to put in your front garden so that your neighbours, friends, postmen and me... Price: £4.25
Ê Ê
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ê HELLEBORUS Very Best Green Hybrids
Cat No. 679J
Much in demand by plant growers and flower arrangers everywhere is this selection of several different types with appeal both for the variety of the handsome foliage and for the cup-shaped, green flow... Price: £2.88
Ê Ê
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ê HELLEBORUS Very Best Spotted Hybrids
Cat No. 678L
ÒBest spotted hybrids?Ó we asked our supplier: ÒNo!Ó he replied, ÒVery best!Ó So there we have it Ð seeds from exceptional plants from which you can expect exceptional plants with lovely, spectacular ... Price: £3.22
Ê Ê
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ê HELLEBORUS Very Dark Purple Hybrids
Cat No. 675L
This is a specially selected strain to give blooms of a very dark purple. Now a highly fashionable colour, the plants would be just perfect for the banks of the River Styx! 11Ú2-2 ft. Price: £3.14
Ê Ê
(that last should appeal to you in particular, Neal!!!!!)
M
Yes it does Marion! Have you checked out Graham's hellebores on line. Some that were the color of coal! Feedback on the watchdog says they send big clumps, and I would so love to see them with white or pale greens.
No, haven't checked out Graham's -- but if they are another fabulous company that doesn't ship to Canada; I think maybe I'll have to wait until tomorrow.
sigh.
m
Wow, i think i'd better start selling seeds instead of plants - definitely easier to carry!
I bought seed from Gisela Schmiemann (google her) in the early 90's - all Ballard Stock - she used to do a small mail order trade but i think now she just sells to growers (mainly pineknot- google that too) and would ship right after harvest so seeds were fresh. i had fantastic germination, beautiful plants but as they were open-pollinated, not always true to color. these plants are the backbone of my own breeding stock. seeds purchased from will mclewin in january of 1999 haven't germinated yet - and i've stopped hoping
graham birkin, of graham's hellebores, is a UK grower and brings plants to northern va every year and ships from there. they are lovely, big healthy plants that, depending on customs, arrive quickly and in great condition. his doubles have alot of torquatus blood and are therefor smaller, slower and i think less vigourous than the orientalis doubles
attached is picture of one of my babies, the pollen parent came from elizabeth strangman (google) and it took me 3 crosses and ten years to get but i think worth it.
mcgina, that is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!!
McGina -- what a lovely plant! And YES you should start selling seed. Richters here in Canada sells sanguinaria canadensis seed which they ship fresh in little foil packets packed with peat moss (if I remember correctly) Doing it this way would definitely get around the double dormancy problem, earning the gratitude of other gardeners. And subsidize what is obviously a valuable breeding line!
but then what would I use for garden ornaments in my winter garden???
M
There is so much on this thread, it oughta be a course. I am going to have to study! To add to it, here is a very thoughtful, long reply to my e-mail, from a lady at Chiltern's in UK:
______________________________________________
Subject: Fresh seeds to the USA?
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:57:10 +0100
From: "Denise Taylor"
Thank you for your email concerning the availability of fresh Helleborus seeds. Unfortunately, it is difficult for us to be precise and suggest an ideal time of the year to acquire and sow these. Ideally, this would be from early summer but, in real practical terms, this simply isn’t possible from our point of view.
As you may have seen on our website, we list a large selection of quality species and hybrids, many of which are mixtures, whether they be of one particular colour range or such as the ‘Thoroughbred’ (now temporarily out of stock) and ‘Weyanoke’ collections, each of which contains a wide assortment of different species and varieties, all of which will be harvested at very different times.
Our ‘bulk’ stocks are inevitably expensive and limited, and are obtained from several specialist collectors over a period of weeks rather than months. As you will no doubt appreciate, several weeks can also elapse from autumn onwards between all the seeds ripening and both our suppliers and ourselves in turn collating them all together in sufficient amounts to be able to offer them for re-sale. Even then, several are only ever available in relatively small amounts and, to prevent disappointment, it is usually advisable to order new ones as soon as possible after receipt of our new Catalogue in November/December each year at which time they will all be at their freshest. All are kept in cold storage here until immediately prior to despatch to help preserve and maintain freshness and viability.
In our experience, very fresh ripe seed (often garden-collected or self-sown) does tend to emerge without undue difficulty but once the immediate harvesting time has passed, as described above, the seeds usually benefit from at least one period of cold, as we suggest on the packets themselves. We ourselves have had the Primrose and Yellow Hybrids germinate after having been left outside and ignored for twelve months!
Bearing in mind the above, we have no doubts at all as to the viability of our Hellebore seeds but are aware that germination itself can possibly be prolonged, and repeated alternating periods of warmth and cold are likely to be necessary for most, if not all, of the species and varieties that we list. However, we are confident that with patience they will eventually emerge. The seeds are all as fresh as possible and certainly viable, and we hope that most enthusiasts appreciate and recognise this although we fully understand their own concern.
Finally, we would like to confirm that all our seeds are fresh and from the current harvest and we have no doubts as to their viability at the time of despatch. Indeed, many are received with accompanying Germination Certificates from the supplier/breeder in question.
With very few exceptions, all our seed stocks are changed over on a harvest to harvest basis, as and when the new crop seeds are received, and there is not a day in the year when we do not receive fresh seeds from somewhere around the world. With over 4,500 items in our paper Catalogue and on our website, this is quite a task!
Finally, we would like to confirm that we export a large number of orders throughout the world, including the USA, and the majority reach their destinations quickly and safely without any problem. At the moment, most American orders are sent to their recipients in plain padded envelopes, at intervals if necessary, as we are unable to provide accompanying Phytosanitary certification, as required by some importing authorities.
By way of an explanation, in the wake of September 11th, there was a relatively new decision by USDA to actually enforce a long-standing “requirement” for a Phytosanitary Certificate. Unfortunately, at the moment, we are still unable to provide routinely such certification due to the complex rules and regulations of both our countries.
We therefore continue to have discussions with the UK’s DEFRA to find a solution to the problems involved that would be acceptable to all parties concerned. We have the support of a number of our competitors and seed exchange societies who find themselves in a similar situation and, encouragingly, we also have the full support of DEFRA and our local Member of Parliament who is actively pursuing the matter at Ministerial level and with the co-operation of US politicians in the hope of making alternative arrangements for the import of small packets of seeds.
As a direct result, the USDA have recently informed DEFRA that they have issued proposed rules in their Federal Register for the amendment of their nursery stock regulations to allow the importation of small lots of seed under an Import Permit with specific conditions. Although still somewhat restrictive and unlikely to meet the needs of major exporters to the U.S.A., DEFRA are of the opinion that the proposals may benefit a limited number of smaller exporters.
However, in real terms, all this is likely to take some time to agree and finalise and we are therefore continuing to send small seed orders to the USA, the majority of which would appear to be reaching their destination without being impounded and confiscated. In the event of any difficulties, we would always either re-send the order or give a full refund.
We hope that this email goes some way towards reassuring you of the quality of our seeds and service, and towards explaining some of the difficulties involved. If you would like to receive a complimentary copy of our paper Catalogue, please let me know.
With kind regards,
Denise Taylor,
Chiltern Seeds.
(Tel: 01229 581137)
(Fax: 01229 584549)
(www.chilternseeds.co.uk)
