10 seedlings for $10...

if you become a member of The National Arbor Day Foundation.
www.arborday.org

I feel really bad for what I am about to type because this organization does do a tremendous amount of good however something is really bothering me regarding some of the trees they are offering to the public.

I looked at their list and was incredibly disappointed. I am saddened by all the Ash trees they are offering to the public. I find it rather unorthodox they are selling them at all given the Emerald Ash Borer can’t be stopped so planting any Ash right about now means we’ll ultimately be removing a dead or dieing tree in the years to come and incurring the expense of replacing it with another species. Clearing their inventory perhaps? I know they have to be aware of the existence of the EAB yet they’re still selling Ash? Incidentally, the EAB does not only infect stressed Ash but all Ash and efforts to contain it to date have been miserably unsuccessful. The EAB has moved into my state 3-5 years earlier than had been originally projected. At a time when we should be developing an EAB resistant Ash and planting and establishing species to take the place of Ash… they’re selling them???

What I find completely unconscionable is that The National Arbor Day Foundation is offering Sawtooth Oak (Quercus acutissima). Up until just recently, they were offering Bradford Pears (Pyrus calleryana) to the unsuspecting public and Weeping Willow (Salix babylonica) which have been questionable at best for quite a while because of their highly invasive roots that can destroy septic fields, driveways, and foundations when planted too close to a home. Weeping Willows are also very prone to insect infestations so people end up using a lot of chemicals on them. I am relatively sure they were selling Burning Bushes (Euonymus alata) at one time also. These are totally irresponsible plants for such a high profile organization such as The National Arbor Day Foundation to be selling. They’ve lost all credibility in my opinion. So many wonderful choices of plants are available to offer to the public yet they slip in a few that destroy the environment? Defies logic given this is The National Arbor Day Foundation.

A few links to share to help anyone interested in understanding my point of view-

Bradford Pear-
http://www.agnr.umd.edu/ipmnet/5-8art1.htm
http://www.scnps.org/articles/pears.html

Burning Bush-
http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/alert/alrteuon.html
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-R-0447.htm

Sawtooth Oak-
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/pubs/midatlantic/quac.htm
http://www.dc.sierraclub.org/articles/nativetrees.htm

Weeping Willow-
http://www.bobvila.com/wwwboard/messages/121661.html
http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/factsheets/trees/wepngw.html

I can’t help but wonder what they might offer us next? Japanese Honeysuckle, Russian Olive, White Mulberry, Scotch Broom, Tree Of Heaven, Privet, or maybe some nice Tamarisk/Salt Cedar? I would have thought that an organization such as this that promotes conservation and works with children could have cleaned up their list a tad given there are literally thousands of trees and shrubs out there that don’t wreak havoc in the environment costing the American tax payer tons of money.

The Home & Garden Channel summed it up quite nicely-
http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_plants_other/article/0,,HGTV_3609_3570657,00.html
And this short article was rather nice-
http://www.gardengal.net/page132.html

I agree they do wonderful work!!
BUT......
The seedlings I recieved a few years ago were dead sticks. ALL 10 of them. And they were not much bigger than a piece of twine in size. I was truly dissapointed.
So I have not bothered with them since. But this was just my experience.

In defense of them, most people don't understand that what they will be receiving is what is called a bareroot. Bareroot is literally a little tree with all the soil removed from the roots so that shipping is more affordble. Many of these trees are kept in coolers so they can be shipped dormant which is actually best for the little tree. They leaf out after you plant them in most cases. Bareroot trees and shrubs can be a very affordable way to get a landscape going but they are very vulnerable as bareroot stock and must be put in the ground properly as soon as possible and watered until they are established which usually is about 2 years in my experience. And yes, The National Arbor day Foundation's bareroots seem to be considerably smaller than those of others but they are only 10 for $10.

I looked at the trees available in the in their free offer. I see no sign of free Ash trees being offered to people in areas currently infected by EAB. If people in other areas buy them, then it is up to the buyer to weigh the risks and any possible future consequences and act accordingly. There is a containment program for EAB currently in effect which may or may not prove successful in the long run. I've not seen anything that indicates that total, nationwide devastation of the Ash species is a foregone conclusion. Perhaps I have misplaced hope that the spread can be halted?

What you find completely unconscionable, the offering of the Sawtooth Oak, seems to be a widespread dastardly deed. The Soil and Conservation districts (your tax dollars at work) in my area also offer them in their tree distribution programs.

Buying plants for inappropriate area, such as Weeping Willows for planting over a septic system is not the problem of the National Arbor Day Foundation, it is a problem with an ignorant buyer. Few things offered in commerce are free from risk of possible misuse.

As much as I am in favor of not planting invasives, I'm not convinced there is any reason to share your indignation with the National Arbor Day Foundation.

Wayne

[Edited for spelling]



This message was edited Sep 22, 2005 9:18 PM

I do not know what they are offering as free trees as I only commented about species they were offering for sale to the public. I know what I saw at their link and they most certainly are offering Ash trees.
http://www.arborday.org/Shopping/GoSearch.cfm?MultiSearch=Fraxinus&submit=Search

Regarding this, "If people in other areas buy them (Ash), then it is up to the buyer to weigh the risks and any possible future consequences and act accordingly"... looks like the classic buyer beware to me and I don't think that's fair this time given the type of organization we are discussing here. Don't you think common courtesy should dictate in this particular situation? Seriously, this organization has a focus on education. I presume the educational element of their organization in part enables them to maintain their not for profit/tax exempt status and they are most assuredly a 501 (c) (3). Help me understand why it is that a high profile not for profit organization such as this should have no obligation what so ever to warn “Joe Blow” that a plant is susceptible to a particular insect that has not to date been able to be contained? I believe consumers deserve a "heads up". People trust this organization. Come now, how many homeowners out there buying their trees have any idea what EAB is? What's the percentage? Less than 5%. I am really sorry for the way I feel but I believe people work too hard for their money these days to be sold plants that may not have a chance on God's green Earth of surviving based on current scientific data as well as our eradication (lack of) successes to date. I believe a duty to disclose should exist on The National Arbor Foundation’s side if but for nothing else other than to conduct their business in such a manner that it is above reproach. They do so much good, why spoil it by not being the ultimate steward to the land?

Here's a link to their vision-
http://www.arborday.org/GeneralInfo/mission.cfm

The EAB containment program evidently failed in Michigan or it wouldn't have made its way into Indiana and Ohio and now into Illinois as of this summer. Based on the presence of EAB here, I wouldn't call that effective containment. It’s a hop skip and a jump from Illinois to the Wisconsin border so I suspect they’re next. It's a borer, I believe the best we can hope to do is slow down its advance right now.

The Feds are now adding ASH seed to their Plants Material Program.
Excerpt from here-
http://www.mi.nrcs.usda.gov/programs/pmc.html

“In the event that the emerald ash borer cannot be contained, the Rose Lake Plant Materials Center is taking steps to see that the ash tree doesn’t vanish forever.
The PMC has entered into an agreement to store ash seed at the National Center for Genetic Resources Preservation in Fort Collins, Colo. If the ash tree population is completely decimated by the ash borer, the stored seeds can be used to re-establish the ash tree for future generations.”

The Feds just don’t start allocating precious resources to collection of seed without a darn good reason. Here’s an interesting comment, “Center is taking steps to see that the ash tree doesn’t vanish forever.”

A little bit more on the EAB for anyone interested-
http://www.entm.purdue.edu/EAB/
“Nearly all of northwest Ohio’s ash trees may be wiped out to spare other parts of North America from the deadly emerald ash borer...”
http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0412/31/B01-46738.htm
“It is exactly what common sense told me a year ago: It's uncontainable, it's expanding, and all these eradication efforts are a waste of money… You can't stop something you can't see”.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0405/03/b01-139564.htm
“if the beetle is not contained, the resulting epidemic could rival Dutch elm disease, as the insect advances across North America.”
http://www.glrc.org/transcript.php3?story_id=1833
“It's like a tidal wave, I mean there's just so many of these beetles and Ash is everywhere. Once you start looking for it, and you notice it. It's the tree that's along roadsides, it's along railroad rights of ways, it's in woodlots. It's amazing how dominant Ash has become… When an organism is introduced to a brand new environment where the trees haven't been evolving with the disease or with the insect pest, then that organism just has a free reign, it's dinnertime… This thing will certainly spread”
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/archive/local_22424277.shtml
“Beware the ash borer: Tree scourge heads our way”.
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/faq.pdf
commonly asked questions answered in link above as well as links to more information.

Regarding Sawtooth Oaks, evidently The National Arbor Day does feel a responsibility to the buyer and will voluntarily cease offering the Sawtooth Oak. According to my girlfriend, they are pulling it from their very next catalog. I give them a lot of credit for that. We should never judge by mistakes made but by how they are corrected.

Your Soil and Conservation District must be dealt with from within. That's your tax dollar at work there not mine. My Soil and Conservation District has ceased using many plants once believed to be problem free. We know so much more now than we did 20 years ago. Change takes time, it doesn't happen over night.

I’m not angry so much as deeply frustrated and saddened. Why, because of which organization it was promoting these types of plants at times such as this. The Willow tree doesn’t so much bother me because the effects of planting that in the wrong spot won’t affect my pocket book. I do truly feel for the person who has to replace their septic field or shore up their foundation because of a tree though. The Ash, what can I say… doubtful, very doubtful, that the vast majority of Ash out there will be able to weather out this siege. Sawtooths, I believe those are invasive and capable of negatively impacting the environment which affects all of us either directly or indirectly. We don’t live in a bubble and what you do affects me and what I do affects you. If it is true they won’t be offering Sawtooth Oak in the next catalog, they deserve a round of applause.

You know, I was just about to join the National Arbor Day Foundation but changed my mind today. Not because they are offering Ash trees, or because they still sell the sawtooth oak, or not even because their willows put innocent septic systems in peril.

I've decided that these fools do not deserve my suppport because I just read that they gave Walmart their "Award of Excellence" for transplanting trees as they destroyed a 5 acre wetland to build a store and parking lot in Oldsmar, Florida, a condition they were were required to meet to get a permit to destroy a wetland.

Here's a story of the award (for which they were the only entrant) http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/19/Northpinellas/The_only_entry__Wal_M.shtml

Wayne, who came perilously close to joining these idiots' organization.

[Edited again for spelling]

This message was edited Sep 23, 2005 7:42 PM

I am all too familiar with mitigation. Wayne, thank you very much for posting the link because wetlands mean a lot to all of us. If there is any validity to that report (I have no reason to disbelieve the source), this too is both frustrating and saddening.

It's been my experience that the end does not justify the means. Generally when an organization subscribes to unorthodox practices, one will find a pattern in other areas of their operations. Just because WalMart was the only entry, doesn't mean they should receive a reward. As parents we do not reward our children for negative attention seeking behaviors so why would we want to reward WalMart for basically the equivalent? Misstating their success rate and they get rewarded because they are the only entry??? Given there was only one entry, I would have been of the opinion that this would have been a golden opportunity for The National Arbor Day to go out and ask its membership to submit nominations for their judges to review to better enable them to honor an organization truly deserving of such accolades. Based on what I read provided by Wayne, that wouldn't be WalMart.

Good detective work finding that article Wayne!

EQ...The trees I recieve were not just tiny...but actually DEAD. Dried up little tiny twigs. NO life at all.
You are right...I could have spent my $10.00 in a much better way!!
Yes, they sent a pamplet telling me to keep them potted for appx 2 years. First year in protected shade, 2nd year to move them into a more sunny area...3rd year plant in the ground. But they snapped and sent up little dusty particals when I removed them from the box.
I would not recommend them to anyone.
But this is just my experience with them. Maybe someone out there has beautiful trees from them. I sure hope so.
OK, now I will shut up!!!:-)

Good gosh, don't shut up! If you don't mind my asking, what the heck kind of trees did you receive that they told you to keep in a pot for 2 years and protect by placing in shade for the first year?

Let see...a crepe myrtle stick, a dogwood stick,Redbud, a hawthorn some oaks an elm and birch...and I can not remember the others.
But to top it all off...most of what they sent...I have growing wild already in my yard.
The oaks....I constantly have to pull out of my flower beds and mow the others...Dogwoods....what a joke...I LIVE in Alabama...they are everywhere. The only trees that would have been great to have would have been the Hawthorn and the Birch...But dead didnt do me much good....LOL

Some of those send out a decent sized tap root. I can't imagine it being the greatest idea to plant them in a pot for two years but what do I know given I germinate seed for sport. Yup, I'm one of those kinds of people and I don't even keep but about 10% of everything I germinate for myself. I simply enjoy germinating seed and passing it around. As far as shade for a year... I can't quite figure that one out.

I didn't germinate any Birch from seed last season but I did germinate some Hawthorn from seed. Go ahead and send me your name and mailing address and I will send you some Hawthorn seedlings. Bareroot seedlings is what I can send you... not saplings so they are small but they are healthy. You might want to plant the seedlings right in the ground and forgo the pots for two years ;) You also might want to plant them in a location that gets at least some sun ;). Raise the crown about 2" above the ground when planting them and mulch an area about 2' in diameter around the seedlings to knock out competition. Next year water them with about 2.5 gallons of water every week that it doesn't rain throughout the growing season and repeat that the following year and then they should be established by then and you need do nothing else special other than to reduce the competition around the base of the seedling. How many do you want? I've got to send out more plants and seed to a few other people so don't be shy. You don't have any Eastern Red Cedar (Juniper) on your property do you? If you do, you could end up with a Cedar Rust problem at some point in time in the future which I don' t think is that big of a deal but some people get irked by it so I thought I might mention it. Doesn't really hurt the trees in my opinion.

We do have Lots of cedars!! LOTS!! But I have not had any trouble in the past 12 years. I would LOVE some Hawthorns!!! I will dmail you real quick!!!!
Thanks a bunch!!!!

Check your cedars for telial horns. Here's an image so you know what they look like-
http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/focus/cedarhawthornrust.html

I am of the opinion that rust happens but that doesn't mean I don't go around and remove telial horns and burn them. We always seem to be having bon fires over here so no big deal but you can bag them and toss them out with your regular garbage.

Here's another photo-
http://www.extension.umn.edu/projects/yardandgarden/diagnostics/cedarcedarapplerust.html

Have fun!

Yep...your right! Some of the cedars Do have them. Time to get out the clippers..lol
Thanks!!

OK, no biggie. It's like I said, "Rust Happens". Some years it will be more of any eyesore than others. Depends on if it is a wet year or not. Dryer years are generally not a problem. No need to treat it with any chemicals as I really have never noticed it doing any damage to my neighbor's Junipers or to my Hawthorns. They think the telial horns are gross so I go over and cut them off their Junipers as a favor.

I am taking a class in landscape design at Joliet Junior College, today went to homeowners site to measure property and id plants. Guess what this new developement in Channahan has planted in their parkways, yep, you guessed it. Ash trees. Blame it on ignorance, my house is >100 years old, my neighbor's are losing elms to disease at an alarming rate, now this scourge! I guess it will teach us in the long run to, hopefully, educate ourselves so that we can make better, or at least more informed, decisions in the future.

Ash trees are going cheap. Evidently Channahan figures they'll be long done with their development project and off the job site by the time EAB hits so replacing them can be at the expense of the homeowners or they can have empty parkways devoid of anything but grass. I hate to say this but Ash are still a better choice than Bradford Pears or any of the Calleryana cultivars that were unleashed on the unsuspecting public.

Say PrairieGirlZ5, you are aware there are DED resistent Elms out there that are doing quite well, right? Many have original DNA from the American Elms. Same deal with the Chestnuts. Quite a few out there with the original DNA that can withstand Chestnut Blight.

Go here and call the owner and he'll help you select a Chestnut if you are interested-
OIKOS TREE FARMS
http://www.oikostreecrops.com/
Ken Asmus
269-624-6233

Mine are all from him and they are doing great! Didn't hurt that they were incredibly affordable and incredibly healthy either. He ships bareroot in spring.

Get yourself a catalog from him if you can. You will be rolling on the floor in fits of giggles when you start reading some of their comments about their nursery stock. I can't give you an example off the top of my head but I started reading excerpts to my husband while he was driving us somewhere or other and even my husband was laughing out loud. Their candor is a breath of fresh air.

Welcome to our little garden party here at Dave's Garden. I noticed you registered just last month. Good for you. You will be very happy here. Joliet is only about 2 hours from where I live. Is Thornton in the same general area?