ReIntroducing Canis Lupus

Does anyone know what subspecies of Canis Lupus once lived in Maryland? And where can I find info on whether there is any possibility of reintroduction?

There were many wolves in Oregon, back in the 40's. Sure hope they make a comeback here. A few have been seen at the eastern border, but none survived. ;-(

Hope you find the info you are looking for!
Julie

Are they re-introducing them in Oregon? I know that once the wolf population was very vast and there were a great many of them. It's sickening to think about how many the human race has been able to kill off.

I can tell you right now CaptMicha, that there is no way in heck that the state of Maryland - or any of the Mid-Atlantic states - would ever get a wolf reintroduction passed.

The areas involved are far too overdeveloped & overpopulated humanwise, & folks are far too self-involved & misinformed to agree to something like that. For confirmation - just look at all the brouhahas currently going around concerning the reemergence of the coyote around here. Folks are up in arms & it's already completely legal to shoot them on sight.

Can you imagine what would happen if it was even whispered that someone was even thinking of introducing the wolf???

I don't believe they are being re-introduced here, but some have been seen that presumably crossed (from Montana to) the Idaho panhandle into Oregon. Oregon is already working on a "management" plan, and has had a few meetings on such.

I hope when they arrive that they can be successful. They were here in numbers long ago, but were exterminated. ;-(

Breezymeadow, excellent point. I seemed to have forgotten all about the coyote issue. It's so true that if they can't even accept coyotes, how can I hope that they can accept wolves.

They're right you know. Every animals is rabid and out to get us.

Coyotes are just managing to make it back and they're already planning to kill them off again.

Why don't they just save time and kill every coyote now and get it over with?

Nothing matters if it's not human, of course.

Sorry, but if you couldn't tell I'm worked up.

When they had bounty on coyotes here, the rabbits got way out of hand and destroyed a lot of grain crops that had been already harvested.

You'd think they'd learn, wouldn't you?

Here's some information on this site, Micha: http://www.kidsplanet.org/factsheets/eastern_timber_wolf.html . Also, Maryland might have been home for the Eastern Red wolf (Canus rufus), which lived in the southeastern U.S.

Forgive me, but does Maryland have enough open wooded country to support a population of wolves? I always thought it was pretty densely populated.

Maryland does not have the proper habitat anymore to support a wolf population - & I would consider PA, VA - heck, probably the entire Mid-Atlantic - doubtful as well.

Even though there have been a number of authoritative substantiated reports of the occasional Mountain Lion here in the VA mountains (& of course the now almost common coyote), these animals do not have the same heavily structured pack lifestyle of the wolf.

And again - it would never be allowed or tolerated. Both pet-owners & farmers have been up in arms the last few years once coyotes started popping up more & more & getting blamed for everything under the blessed sun. Do they sometimes grab loose pets & probably free-range poultry & newborn lambs? I'm sure they do. Do they do it with such frequency that they should be indiscrimately obliterated? Absolutely not.

Maryland does have the proper haitat in certain places. In the Catoctin Mountains, towards the beach and a few other places. Near the VA border also. It's not all densely populated by far.

I would grab a pet or some livestock too if my natural prey was being obliterated and my home turning into cities. What choice have they been left with? Of couse we don't want all the rabits and deer, but then we also don't want the natural predators either. The prey can't be kept in check w/o predators.

I can understand the farmers' view point but not the pet owners. Take inside your darn pets. If you don't have the space or time to devote to that, should you have that pet?

Replacing the natural with alien is not a good thing, despite it happening more and more.

Ceceoh, I thought Lupus rufus's range was only Mexico and the surrounding states.

The wolf is one of my favorites and I too am sad to see them get a bad reputation.

Here in Lower Michigan, the number one predator of deer is the automobile. Very dangerous to drivers. I think it would be far better to have a few wolves around but almost no one I talk to agrees with me.

My guess is that wolves will never be reintroduced in most areas but may be allowed to stay if they move in quietly and mind their own business. But the next time a pack of feral and escaped dogs gets somebody's sheep everybody will be on a wolf hunt again. I think I read that several of the Yellowstone wolves had been found shot dead. What a waste.

"Ceceoh, I thought Lupus rufus's range was only Mexico and the surrounding states."

If we are talking about the original range, then yes, Canus rufus was in Maryland, as well as much of the southeastern U.S., as far west as texas, and may have ranged as far north as New England.

Here's some information about them: http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/red_wolf.html

CaptMicha - the problem is that the term "densely populated" is viewed differently by wolves than it is by the human populace.

Slyvi, coyotes have moved in quietly here and minded their own business. Then a couple were spotted near a road and were assumed rabid. They were shot dead. Even though there was no behavoir indicating rabies.

Everything is rabid, according to ignorant people. I'm not insulting anyone, ignorant means not informed. Ignorance breeds fear also.

Hence, if coyotes can't do it, I don't think wolves could either in most parts of the US.

It's funny though that there were only two actual documented accounts of wolves attacking people in the USA and none were fatal. I don't have the source for that but will retrieve it if anyone is interested.

ceceoh, I read over that webpage you provided and still don't see anything about them living in my neck of the woods. Carolina seems to be the closest that they came.

Okay, well, I guess this was all just wishful thinking. It's depressing to think about how much of our natural world is destroyed and lost forever, never to be regained. And that humans only seem to attempt to do something, when it's too late.

Not all humans... but most.

And it's sad that most of the world doesn't seem to care.


I found this great site if anyone is interested. It's full of insightful quotes. They seem to get better the farther down you scroll. http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/

"Assumed rabid" People are so afraid of everything anymore! We live in such unnatural and unhealthy conditions, I think it is affecting our minds. I don't think there is any hope for human beings unless we can learn to work with our world instead of against it.

And don't forget, deer and rabbits are 'cute' as opposed to the 'mean' 'rabid' wolf! Barf!

Did I just say barf? ROTFLMAO!!!! Sorry!

Same with snakes - the attitude (not mine) is KILL it whether it's poisionous or not! Not cute = dead.

Nicole

Warning: These are photos of scary rabid wolves! View at your own risk!

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Lasher/Images/wolfpups.gif

http://www.emagazine.com/images/upload/wolf_pup.jpg

http://www.healthyplanet.com/large/100722.gif

LOL!!!! And thanks!!

Awww!!!

Here's a pretty scary snake too. If you get the chance, read the picture book, it is wonderful!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007XWMUG/103-5250917-6342232?v=glance

http://www.whozoo.org/Intro98/jennglaz/jennglaz21.htm

"ceceoh, I read over that webpage you provided and still don't see anything about them living in my neck of the woods. Carolina seems to be the closest that they came."

Sorry CaptMicha. Try this site. It shows a map illustrating the original range of the red wolf, and Maryland is included. http://www.redwolves.com/about_wolves/topten.html

Somehow or another I'll convince you! LOL!

I'm glad that you guys feel the same way as me. There's hope still in the world!

Wolves are supossed to be amongst the best parents in the animal kingdom. I especially liked the picture of that little guy howling. Big bad wolf is right! Lol.

Ceceoh, I forgot to mention that I really liked the site that you posted. It was really informative. I have no idea that they could be a cross. Looking at pictures now, they really do resemble coyotes very well.

And it's amazing that if they are a cross, we were "witnessing evolution", as they said it. Even though that process was probably halted.

I want a snake by my dh is scared of them! Grr!

Nicole

What's also very interesting is - according to a former acquaintance of mine who worked for the West Virginia Fish & Game department - they had many more problems from packs of feral dogs &/or "coydogs" (coyote/dog crosses) than from pure coyotes, as far as livestock predation & deer hamstringing etc., etc. Apparently, while coyotes kill for food - feral dogs & coydogs will chase & kill game/livestock just for "fun". In addition, feral dogs & coydogs tend to be less fearful of human contact, which makes them more likely to do damage closer to human habitation.

Same thing with wolfdogs. They're known to be the aggressive ones, not the wolves.

I don't know if you guys are familar with the Beast of Gevaudan, but now they think that the wolf was actually a wolf dog, which explains it's lack of fear for humans, it's trainability to kill humans (while at the same time being trained by a human) and also they think it accounts for the large size.

I agree. It's extremely unfortunate that quite a few people in our surrounding area have or breed "wolf hybrids" & love nothing better to take them out & show them off.

In fact, we once had a stray hanging around that I am sure was one of these hybrids - the size, build, coat, yellow eyes + the fact that the darn thing could climb like a monkey were all tell-tale size. In addition, while my horses are used to seeing strange dogs, when this guy entered the barn they all went ballistic/hysterical.

To many people not enough wolves or anything else for that matter.

THANK YOU JodyC! That's the way I feel. Lol.