Jeanette - the temperature inside a container will be the same as the air temperature, just so you know.
Garden Hose Containers
Jeanette, Debbie says she has a sambucus Sutherland Gold in her first container, which I believe can grow to 8 feet. That's why I was wondering about leaving it in a container of this size permanently.
As far as freezing temps, I have a lot of perennials in pots, but mostly because I haven't gotten around to planting them out yet, lol! I drag my pots into the unheated garage for the winter, and I have a pretty good survival rate. This is what I would do with the sambucus in a container.
:)
Dee
A garage is FAR safer than outside in the bitter cold and freezing winds.
Ok, now I see her Sambucus Sutherland Gold. It will be beautiful!! One of the fellas I think it was, in another forum said he plants clematis with his Sambucus so they can climb up that plant and he prunes the Sam to about 12 inches in the spring and that is what you do with that group, I think it is 3, of the clematis too.
Dee, I see that both Debbie and you are zone 6. I am zone 5 but bordering on 4. Where I want to put it is on a second floor deck so it would have to be carted down and into my plant room for the winter. I don't know if my persuasion is that good. LOL
I know Pirl, but if you plant them in the ground don't they have the mass of the soil so it is more insulation and not as cold as the outside temps? So when the information says it is good down to zone 4, that doesn't necessarily mean that the roots are going to be ok at that cold? Or does it?
Jeanette
I'd check several sources for the same exact plant to be sure the plant can survive but I'd also be more likely to mulch it quite well.
Jeanette, if the info says the sambucus is hardy to zone 4, it should do well in your zone five - in the ground. But like pirl says, I would check a few different resources regarding the zone. Sometimes different sources give different info.
I can't say that I would leave it outside in a container in zone 5, though, much less zone 5 bordering on zone 4. I don't think it would make it. Not on a second-floor deck. If it was in a sheltered corner, near a wall or fence, or a foundation, protected from wind, maybe it would survive, but that second-floor deck sounds kind of exposed.
Thanks for that info on the sambucus and clematis. I wasn't aware the sambucus could be so heavily pruned. That's a great combination, the clematis and sambuca.
Dee
Dee, I will find the thread for you. It is short but very interesting. Jeanette
Dee, here is what was said about the Sambucus:
don't know if I can dig up a picture somewhere, but I had a great Sutherland Gold in my old garden. I coppiced it most years (cut it back to about 1-3'), and it grew into a small tree every year, maybe 10-12' tall. Because of the coppicing, mine never flowered, though I have grown other S. nigra cultivars (the old 'Guincho Purple', inferior to the newer "black" cultivars, but it did flower well) that flower just fine without coppicing. Sutherland Gold has really beautiful cut-leaf gold-chartreuse foliage that can be grown in full sun without scorching. Though not generally advertised, one of the most beautiful things about this shrub is the large burgundy "splash" at the center of each compound leaf, that gives it a wonderful 2-tone effect for a few weeks in the spring. Underplant with burgundy and yellow tulips for a real color echo show!
One of the main reasons to grow these plants for me is that they are perfect scaffolding for clematis. They look wonderful with all kinds of clematis scrambling through their branches. The purple/blue clems look great on S.G., and the pinks and reds on the 'black' varieities. Coppicing helps the clematis climb up far enough with light early in the season so that the elderberry and the clematis can grow together. You can plant a young elder and young clematis together early on (both about 1-2 gallon size), and neither will overtake the other while they are getting established. Group 3 (hard prune) clems work best. Abundant watering the first 2 seasons is also they key to getting both plants established well
Doesn't this sound wonderful? Jeanette
Dee, sorry to take so long to respond - we were "on the road" over the weekend and just catching up here. Regarding the Sambucus - it's still in the container - this will make its third year in the pot - however this may be the year that I transplant it to the garden. All information I've read for using any plant in a container - if the plant is hardy to at least two zones below yours it's safe to overwinter in the container - i.e. I'm Zone 6 so anything hardy to Zone 4 will work. However, I do take precautions with these containers and push them up against the house under the eaves for the winter - they gain a little protection and don't get "winter wet". If I had a garage, I'd move them there.
Jnette, I've seen all the publicity for using the new Sambucus 'Black Lace' in containers. I'm going to try it this year but I know after growing one in the landscape that it will definitely HAVE to be planted in the garden by next year - it's an extremely vigorous Sambucus and will quickly outgrow the container. If you decide to plant one in a container, I agree with Dee and pirl, you would need to protect it for the winter.
Debbie
Thanks, Jeanette - and sorry to take so long to get back to thank you! I'm just starting to try clematis, and was thinking of growing them up and through another plant, so the sambucus sounds like a good candidate. I've never grown sambucus, and never even considered this combo, so thanks for passing along that idea.
Debbie, thanks to you also, for that further info. I am thinking of trying your combo, and I would bring it inside the garage for the winter. As I mentioned, my biggest concern was more for size - I never ever would have though about putting not only a sambucus in a pot, but putting it in a pot with TWO caryopteris and a cimicifuga, not to mention all those heucheras and the hosta. Wow!
I was doing a bit of looking around, and I thought I might try a smaller sambucus. I can't recall the name off the top of my head - maybe Golden Locks??? - but it looked similar in coloring to Sutherland Gold, but only grew to 3 or 4 feet. So I might try that instead of the larger SG.
Oh, one last question, Debbie. Can you give me an approximate size of that hose pot? How big across and how deep?
Thanks again!
Dee
Dee, if I remember correctly the pot is 8 gallons? It's approximately 2' diameter and about 2.5' tall. When I planted it I was going for impact and basically filled the whole rim with plants - had to "squish" the last few Heucheras just to get them to fit! "They" always say to squeeze as many plants as you can to make it look full - I probably went overboard! LOL
rcn - better too full (if that's possible) than skimpy looking!
Thanks Debbie, that helps. This way I can look for a hose container the same size you used, or if I can't find it, at least I have an idea of what size pot to use.
Sorry to be a pest, but one more question please. You say you covered the bottom with newspaper to keep soil from washing out of the hose hole. Did this one hole really provide enough drainage? You didn't add any (smaller) holes? On one hand that seems like it wouldn't be enough drainage, but then again I guess with all those plants in there, the container probably went dry fairly quickly, lol!
Thanks so much!
:)
Dee
I looked at Walmart yesterday and they had a couple of hose containers but only one of them I might consider but for my doubts I think it was pretty expensive. Around $27. That isn't bad if it is pretty much what you want. They are plastic tho, and if you are going to plant plastic you might as well go to a regular planter I would think. They are coming out with some that look pretty nice.
I am lucky in one respect. About 30 years ago I was on a trip to California in my car and they have fantastic clay pottery down there. I hauled a half a dozen pretty big pots back with me. Would you believe I had a flat tire and had to unload the trunk to get to the spare on the freeway? Anyway, I still have all but one of them. If I remember correctly I paid about $7 or $8 for them. They would be really expensive now.
Dee, the hole in this container is a little larger than the size of a quarter so I was worried about the soil falling through. I worried about drainage but it wasn't a problem - if anything, with all the plants it dried out too quickly!
Jnette, I know what you mean about the newer designs for the garden hose containers - I just wanted a plain design and lucked out the year I bought mine. Now they've added some 'designs' to them and charging $10.00 more and I don't like them as well! $7-$8 for clay pots!!! What a deal - guess now that the container craze has caught on they're hiking the prices - one pot at a shop in town I had my eye on is WAY out of my price range - thought it might be $70 which is still too much - a friend priced it for me the other day - $115!!!! It's just a gray ceramic pot, about 2.5 feet tall and nothing special - I just liked the shape, but not for that kind of money! Guess I'll have to go back to NC some fall - in the Outer Banks area they have this little shop that has the most fantastic pots and every year after the first of September they sell them at half off! I picked some up a few years back at incredible prices but haven't been able to get back since :(
Debbie
I just saw them yesterday and was shocked at the prices. The other shocker was the price on the pretty, but not pottery or terra cotta, big pots. Some were chipped and one was cracked but no price reductions. Their only advantage is the lighter weight but for something that looks like it will fall apart in two more years it's just a recurring expense and not a bargain at all.
How I'd love to have a sale like Debbie found!
Thanks Debbie!
I do a lot of container gardening, but the really nice pots are so expensive. Some of those foam pots are gorgeous, but they are expensive. I wouldn't mind paying for some of them, but to me, the foam pots are quite fragile, as pirl says. You put the trowel in at the wrong angle, and boom! there's a nice gouge in the side. So I tend to stick with plastic. Cheaper, more durable, and you can find some pretty nice-looking ones - at least if folks are looking at them from a distance, lol!
Thanks again Debbie for your help and inspiration!
Dee
Just thought of something. What if you took those foam pots and swished some plaster of paris or something like that around the inside? I am not a crafts person but I would bet that someone out there would know what to use. What I am talking about.
Jeanette
I just thought of something. What if you took something like plaster of paris and swished it around the inside to make them stronger? I am not a crafts person, but I would bet that someone of you out there could come up with something like I am talking about.
That should not make them that much heavier, but should make them tougher.
Jeanette
I don't know if it would adhere and it probably would crack. I have some of the older pots, with the terra cotta look to them, and they're much nicer than what I see on the market now.
I guess I was using plaster of paris as an example to get my meaning across, not that you would use that specifically. They have paints now that stick to plastic so maybe they have other stuff that you could use. Actually, I would think maybe spraying the outside with a clear spray of some kind might protect them from getting banged up too.
I don't know, I thought they were pretty expensive for what they were made of. I don't have any to even try this stuff I am suggesting. LOL
The HD ad in this morning's paper said they are fiberglass. Well, let me tell you, I bought a shovel with a fiberglass handle while back because it is so much lighter weight, and I love it. I also read that they are stronger than the ash handles. But, they are cheaper!!! Probably won't be for long. So I am going to replace all of my tools with the fiberglass as soon as I can.
Jeanette
Jeanette, after busting the handles on 2 wooden shovels, I also converted to fiberglass! Tamara
Re: Pots, not tools
Some probably are fiberglass, Jeanette, but the new ones I'm seeing are definitely not the quality of the older fiberglass. I have some, about 10 years old, that have never chipped and show no signs of age (just like us!) but the newer ones are sometimes sold at 50% off due to chunks taken out of them, which must occur in shipping and/or handling. It's very distressing to think of paying big bucks and only getting a year out of them.
This message was edited Apr 20, 2007 5:04 PM
What kind are you talking about Pirl? I believe mine are Stanley who I think puts out a pretty good product. I have never seen the tools beat up the way you describe. Maybe the stores here don't put them out in that condition? Altho, I can't imagine fiberglass handles having chunks out of them.
Also, I never saw tools with fiberglass handles 10 years ago. Guess out here on the West coast we are 10 years behind. If that's the case, then maybe we are getting the good ones you speak of.
Jeanette
Sorry, Jeanette, it's the pots I was writing about, not the tools.
Oh Pirl, that is so funny. I'm sorry I misunderstood you. Do they really put merchandise out to sell to the public looking like that? This time I am talking about pots. I have never seen that around this area. They would sit there forever before anybody here would buy them. Do they actually sell them? Do people buy them? Maybe at 50% off somebody might figure on putting a plant to cover that spot up. But, you are right. Those probably are not fiberglass.
I don't know what those new light weight pots are. I don't even think they are plastic.
I apologize again Pirl Girl. Jeanette
NO apologies needed: that was a funny switch we had there.
The pots look like foam people use for insulation, molded into pots and painted. My thought was: if people walk around to see what's on sale and they spot 50% off on brand new damaged merchandise why would they buy it at all? I'll have to ask the owner what the awful material is. Bubble gum pots would hold up longer.
I haven't gotten close enough to them to give a guess. Hey, they make coolers out of foam insulation don't they? And you are so right. Those don't hold up either. I have seen stacks of these things with big prices overhead on them and they seem pretty pricey for something like that don't you think? Even if you did want to buy one.
Jeanette
You're right - they are very similar to those coolers but we have a cooler that hasn't chipped in over 10 years. The pots are very similar to them but chunks come off and not those tiny styrofoam "dots" that I've seen come from packing foam.
Way too expensive. One dollar would be all I'd pay.
You ladies are wonderful!!! I've been looking for a CHEAP square or rectangular trash can that I could paint and use for a container. I need something different, everything is round! I have a few of those foam coolers and they might be just the ticket!! Now if I can just figure out of they'll take a couple of coats of paint :)
Re: the "foam" pots - I picked up a large one this spring at Big Lots for a container planting - the edge was cracked but I really liked the shape so I got them to mark it down 50% and used some super glue to prevent it from cracking further. It had a glossy finish, plus I hated the color so I primed it and spray painted with a textured paint - you'd never even know it was the same pot :)
I wonder if fabric could be used, along with some Hodge Podge and a few coats of sealer, to make a crazy quilt type of very different type of cooler container. A lot would depend on your taste in gardening. Even if you used it with a few pots of plants inside of it, I'm sure it could be unique.
You said square. I bought a square pot at Walmart a week ago. Fairly good size and very sturdy plasetic, dark green matte. For $3.48 I think it was. I know at around $3.50. I also found a really cool website last night but haven't had a chance to look at it. I will try to post it if I can. I hope this is it. Take a look. Jeanette
http://gardenrefuge.com/index
"The webpage cannot be found" - that's what the link gives me.
Ok, I will try other means to find it. Jeanette
I don't know how to do it I would love to have you guys look at his website 'cause it is really cool. He makes planters, using styrofoam forms that he makes himself It might give you some ideas even if you didn't use his procedure. . If you are interested, send me your regular email address thru Dmail. Jeanette
Jeanette, I managed to get on that site but couldn't find the styrofoam 'planters' - do you have the date of the message so it might be easier to find?
No, the planters weren't made of styrofoam. The forms that he made the planters from were. He cut the shapes any way he wanted out of the styrofoam and then made the planters to their shape from cement. He says you can make them as thick or thin as you want.
I still haven't had a chance to look at the site good. It just looked like something you could adapt to make planters. He had a good idea.
Okay, gotcha, now I understand :) I'm not real fond of working with cement - tried making concrete leaves last fall, mixing cement is ALOT of work! Hopefully I'll be able to figure out how everyone makes it look so easy :( I'll have to check out the site again when I have more time - got "lost" on the site but found a link to a guy in Maine (Bo Atkinson) who makes really unique garden art - I bought one of his "creatures" about 10 years ago and dragged it all the way to Virginia with me when I moved! Glad to hear that he's still selling - now that I know he's still around I'll have to plan a visit on my next trip to Maine!
rcn - I just Googled Bo and he is an amazing talent. Do you have a photo of the piece you brought to Virginia?
pirl, isn't he incredible or I should say he has an terrific imagination! LOL I wish I had taken pictures of his landscape years ago but that was before my digital camera days :)
Here's a picture of my creature - Bo called them "roos" (kangaroos) but I call it the 'cat' in my garden. Small world - I noticed a new DG member back in December from Freedom, Maine and recognized her as Bo's wife (?) aldaflower. I wrote to her to tell her my "cat" had successfully made the trip to Virginia and sent her this picture. He looks kind of lonely out there all by himself - this is the garden area I worked on last fall and so he should have plenty of 'companions' to surround him this spring :)
Debbie
