Rotenone

I've been looking through old threads and doing some google searches on this pesticide. I know that it has lost its favor with many organic growers. Please correct me if my understanding is patchy or wrong. Is it true that rotenone breaks down quickly in sunlight and that its half-life (soil and water) is between 1 and 3 days? I understand it's extremely toxic to fish.
thanks

might not be the most recent info. i prefer organic, but have not uised it myself...

Why Grow Organic?

"No pesticides

Rotenone is a safe and effective organic insecticide (biocide, pesticide) derived from derris roots, used by traditional societies in the east for centuries and approved for use by all organic associations. The effects are not persistent, it is biodegradeable and breaks down quickly into harmless by-products, and it is harmless to birds and mammals.

But most organic growers don't use it: less than 6% of the respondents to a US Department of Agriculture survey of certified organic vegetable growers reported using rotenone (American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, Vol. 13, No. 2, 1998).

"I don't think we are unique among experienced organic growers in using very little intervention in pest management." (Organic grower, US)

"I, too, use no biocides. People who think you have to use biocides to farm assume incorrectly that organic farmers use botanical biocides. This is not the case. Very few organic farmers merely switch from synthetic to organic biocides. For some this may be a first step in the transition to organic growing, but it is not the rule. Organic farmers have shown that food crops can be grown with the same or more production per acre, with the same or less lost to pests, without using biocides or NPK (chemical) fertilizers." (Organic grower, US)

-- "Pesticides are the badge of the amateur" -- organic grower"

- from http://journeytoforever.org/garden_organic.html

It's better not to use the stuff if you don't have to, but in some instances there isn't much choice. I use a rotenone/pyrethrin mix for striped cucumber beetles and Mexican bean beetles. I don't worry that much about a few chomped leaves and never even realized that I had any hornworms last year until the wasp larvae caught my eye, BUT I got tired of losing all my cucumbers and squash to the bacterial wilt those critters(ie. cucumber beetles) carry. The year that I "didn't worry" about the one bean beetle I spotted, its offspring nearly ate the whole garden! I don't want to kill off the beneficial insects or spray poison (even if it IS organic) all over the place, so I usually just try to do a "beetle patrol" several mornings each week and just zap the offenders whenever I see one.

Thanks, TamaraFaye. I continue to be completely organic (haven't used rotenone either) but I am less hopeful than I used to be about controlling pests merely with plants, healthy soil, and good bugs.

McCool, I have the same problem you describe. I did companion plantings, very little spraying (and only neem or garlic at that) and the cucumber beetles decimated my entire curcubit family: melons, squash, pumpkin, cukes. (didn't have problem with the bean beetles.) The wilt carried everything off. It's really a drag. But I've learned a good lesson, and next year will be more vigilant. Here's to a couple of healthy fall crops... sigh...

Interestingly, the only curcubits that seem resistant to this wilt are the costata romanesca zucchini and an Iraqi watermelon called Ali Baba.

from my recent readin i am learning t hat regular feedings of liquid seaweed to plants & soil keeps them so healthy the bugs leave them alone. am giving that a try

ali baba sounds good!

Yeah, I do the kelp/f.emulsion feedings too. Alas, sometimes plants get sick. I eat organic and live healthy too, but folks like me get sick too. Shinola happens, right? You do what you can, but sometimes even that doesn't work.

In happier news, the walnut tree has had no effect on my garden. I'd know because the nightshade family would show the stress first, and they're thriving. Wacky! This all came out of left field...

that's good news. wonder what would happen if you weren't feeding them? LOL

my potato bean in tires experminet failed. black tires attract too much heat. the scarlet runners don;'t like the heat, so maybe next year i'll start them earlier. the g-hoppers got the potato plants. using semaspore next time

i just try to keep learning more & more about the organic way of life. live & learn. may start a newsletter compiling info soon...

Zeppy, rotenone was once considered "safe" for use in gardens, whether organic or inorganic. However, some years back there was a big to-do about it's affect's on humans and other mammals (I know, I know, that is contradictory to the words posted above by T-Faye's link) (i.e., " The effects are not persistent, it is biodegradeable and breaks down quickly into harmless by-products, and it is harmless to birds and mammals.")

oh, contradict me or my links any hour of any day Shoe! ;-D

think i mentioned my info could be out of date. the main pont i wanted to get across is that most Orgsanic Growers just don'y use it...

it's rainig (pouroing) here, just heard thunder yahoo! gotta get off pc...

Whoops, I apologise...no offense meant, Corny.

For some reason my above post didn't come through completely and I went on explaining rotenone's role in Parkinson's Disease.

" Some evidence implicates pesticides and herbicides as important factors in many cases of Parkinson's disease. A higher incidence of parkinsonism has long been noted in people who live in rural areas, particularly those who drink private well water or are agricultural workers. A large 2000 study found a strong link between high exposure to insecticides and herbicides at home and a 50% to 70% increase in risk of Parkinson's. Important studies are implicating rotenone, a common organic chemical in pesticides, which may release powerful destructive oxidants that target the dopamine nerve cells that are important in PD. Rotenone is very unstable, however, and some research suggests that it becomes inactive too quickly to affect human brains." That is from a UMM report I was able to find online (and fortunately saved it).

You're right about rotenone not being used (nor accepted as a safe organic product) by organic growers. I think it was Rodale Institute that put the word out to the 'organic world' when all the newer research came in, maybe around 2000-2001.

Again, sorry to have appeared to step on your toes. I'll behave! ;>)

hey, no problem, just don't step on my hsnd LOL

appreciate the research, mind if i add it to the info at my website? I would need the reference (source)

thanks shoe!

Okay dokey!

Here is the link to the above quote: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_parkinsons_disease_what_causes_it_000051_1.htm

Off to mkt...see ya later!

Shoe.

There is a gourd that produced an incredible amount of "edible biomass" (we couldn't get to the top of our magnolia and harvest them) for us. All the usual suspects of mildew, beetles, squash borer, etc. just sat on their hands while this gorgeous night bloomer gobbled up our hedge, magnolia and who knows what of the abandoned garden on the other side of the hedge. The last post on the following thread testifies to its kitchen manners, as Dinu has also done elsewhere. I'd like to find those spices he mentions.

It's Cucuzzi carravazi (from Pinetree Seeds). http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/526092/

One more squash we've harvested without problems - organically - is the smaller, short-season butternut that we have planted late around July 1 (supposedly the late planting foibles the moth that lays eggs of the squash borer at the base of the plant).

Right now, the cushaw squash is heading for that poor magnolia again...looks like it's on steroids (the cushaw). Now, could the cushaw be another winner, or is there something about yew hedges and magnolias that foster such a complex web of life that pests can't proliferate to the point of overwhelming the gourd/squash? At night, when we walk by the hedge, you can hear quite a flutter of wings.

done...
thanks Shoe for the link, & thanks Zeppy for bringing it up.

this links to my page that gives info about reasons to grow organic. it contains many other links
http://405.scifstore.com/module/pages/v/90/
for evn more links, go here...
http://405.scifstore.com/module/pages/v/107/

that sounds like a marvelous squash bluespiral! those flutterings are propbaly beneficials, the other plants give them shelter, the gourd attracts the pests they eat. just my guess.

Good going!

I like it! Lots of good useful info there, Folks! Go check it out.

You've been doing good work on your site, Corny! Way to go!

Thanks, Shoe and TamFaye.