Can any of you experts help a newbie out. Please tell me what is going wrong with my vegetables that lookes so beautiful and healthy a month ago. This is a picture of my tomatoes that were starting to produce fruit last month and were healthy and green.
Are these in a container? First impression I get is plasmolysis (fertilizer burn). If they are in containers, perhaps a lack of aeration (soggy soil).
Al
I've been hearing the gardeners in FL talk about their tomatoes quitting for the season due to the heat. You might see if you can get Tplant's attention & see if he thinks that's what you're dealing with. I don't know if FL and CA gardening are similar in that way, but I'd guess you could start some more seedlings for fall planting and grow tomatoes all winter!
The more information, the better, too. If they're in a container, what size? What are you using for dirt? for fertilizer? any bug problems or controls needed?
Wish I could be of more help, but growing tomatoes here in MD is probably entirely different!
Yes, these are in containers. A huge wood planter that I built. It is 36" deep & 4' wide. We haven't been hit with a real heat wave yet. The hottest it has gotten is 85 and that just within the last few days. I did got to NYC and my neighboor offered to take care of the watering. When I got back, everything was completely soaked. I went 6 days without watering and everything was still wet. Maybe that did it. Do I have to throw the soil out? Should I throw out the plants?
Also, I used Miracle Grow potting soil mixed with organic compost.
kanita
This message was edited Jul 21, 2005 2:17 PM
Roots need air as much as they need water. It's very important when growing in containers that you use a soil that will insure adequate aeration for the life of the planting, in your case, the whole season. Though I'll likely get hammered for saying so, I think compost is a less than desirable choice as a component for container soil. Being already in an advanced state of decay, and composed of myriad fine particulates, it clogs drainage, reduces aeration, & promotes compaction. Reason enough for me to leave it out of my soils. The thinking that it promotes microbial activity in containers is easily dispelled, and those that argue its use supplies micro-nutrients might like to look into other delivery systems that have no effect on soil physics. Two that come to mind are seaweed emulsions, Earthjuice, and micro-nutrient frits (OK, that's 3 - I thought of the third while typing the second) ;o).
If you're certain you haven't been too heavy-handed with the N, it's almost certainly a drainage/aeration issue (especially convinced after you commented that soil didn't need watering for nearly a week. This too, indicates a drainage issue. Best container soils will need watering daily or every two days at most. An exception to that rule occurs when plantings are new & roots have not colonized the entire container.) The problem with re-using the soil, is that without amending it to improve drainage/aeration, the problem will almost surely occur again. Also, it is likely heavily colonized by the fungi (Pythium or Phytophthora) that rotted your plant's roots. Best would be to turn it into the compost pile & start with fresh.
Al
Good points, Al. I've been sticking with "soil-less" potting mix in my containers (Pro Mix or Miracle Gro) because of the drainage/compaction issue. I'm also a big fan of the WaterSorb or Soil Moist polymer crystals... They soak up excess water to improve aeration, and they slowly release that water to help the soil stay moist. My containers on the deck are in full sun, southern exposure, and without the crystals I'd be watering twice a day. With them, I can even skip a day without killing the plants. Of course, with the rain we've been having lately, watering isn't so much of an issue.
Just tuned in on this thread and I agree with Tapla about the type of soil. What did you use ?? The fact of not watering for a week and the soil still wet ? Not that is a definite drainage problem. If you have drainage holes in your raised bed and it's not draining than it has to be the soil. You can not use plain top soil as it will compact as your condition seems to describe. Please take a few photos at different angles and be sure to take an overall shot of the entire bed. Take photos of your soil held in a pan or something so we can see the texture.
Tplant, I used Miracle Gro potting mix, and added organic compost I bought at the nursery. The problem started with my zucchini and the gentleman at the nursery said it was powdery mildew, a few days later, my tomatoes started to look sick. There is new growth at the bottom of the tomato stem, and as of this morning I have new flowers that actually opened up. I will take more pictures as you described and post this evening. Thanks everyone for your help.
This message was edited Jul 22, 2005 10:31 AM
Tplant - Up-thread, she revealed that her plants are containerized.
Al
Tapla, do I throw out the soil or just the plant? Also, a gentleman at my nursery says the problem could be that my neighboor watered at night, and for that week that it was still wet, our temps barely went of 70 degrees and that caused the problem. What do you think?
This message was edited Jul 22, 2005 3:01 PM
This message was edited Jul 22, 2005 3:01 PM
This message was edited Jul 22, 2005 3:02 PM
Here is a picture of the planter I built that the tomatoes are growing in. It is 36" deep and 48" wide, with holed drilled all over the bottom. It holds eight 1 cubic foot bags of soil.
Watering at night isn't a bad practice if you only water the soil & not the foliage, but it's probably silly (for me) to think your neighbor was that careful w/o instructions. The fungal issues often associated with watering at night & the foliage consequently staying too wet would leave lesions or necrotic spots in leaf tissues. I don't see much evidence of that in the first picture, so I would be somewhat reluctant to blame it on the timing of watering or even on the foliage remaining too wet too long, but it's certainly possible. I can't see enough detail in the first photo, but if the worst looking leaves are in areas where air circulation is/would have been the poorest, it would likely be caused at least in part by wet foliage. I'm sticking with saturated soil/poor aeration as the probable cause for the plant's decline. There are too many indicators in your descriptions telling me your soil is too slow. Remember too, that plants with struggling root systems haven't the strength to ward of pathogens & are much more likely to be affected by whatever drops by for a visit. As far as the temperature being a factor - fungal problems are exacerbated by high temperature & humidity. Temps in the 90's are far more likely to spawn a fungal infection than those in the 70's.
I know it's difficult to turn that much soil into the compost pile, but I wouldn't reuse the soil - your call, of course. If you do reuse it, you should at least amend with some pine bark & perlite. Watering with a H2O2 solution (hydrogen peroxide) in the proper proportions, can help kill the root rot fungi & provide extra O2 to the next plants.
Good luck, Kanita.
Al
Thanks so much Tapla. I am going to replace the soil as best I can today, but why are my peppers which are in the same container as the tomatoes doing so well? All of the leaves are a rich dark green, and I jalapenos growing all over the place. I am scared to dig up the jalapenos as I do not want to kill them as well. Here are more photos as requested by Tplant. Also Tapla do you know the dillution of the peroxide to water? This time around should I leave out the bag of compost?
You didn't mention you had other plants doing well in the same container. That is a very important piece of info. Are they side by side with the tomatoes, or in a different compartment/part of the container? I can't enlarge your photos, so there is little detail. If they are in same compartment with tomatoes, you probably don't need to change soil, just plants. Peppers like it drier than tomatoes & would normally succumb to root rots before the tomatoes in poorly aerated soils.
FWIW - I wrote this about H2O2 & saved it in case the question came up again:
H2O2 has an extra O atom (compared to H2O) in an unstable arrangement. It's the extra atom that makes it useful in horticultural applications. Generally, we're not concerned with aerobic forms of bacteria normally occurring in container media or on roots. Since H2O2 is an unstable molecule, it breaks down easily. When it does, a single O- atom and a molecule of water is released. This O- atom is extremely reactive and will quickly attach itself to either another O- atom forming stable O2, or attack the nearest organic molecule.
Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by O, the free O H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 can help eliminate existing infections and help prevent future ones. The free O atom can destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) that are rotting and spreading diseases.
Reduced O levels and high temperatures encourage both anaerobic bacteria and fungi. When plants growing in soil are treated with H2O2 it will break down and release O into the area around the roots. This helps stop the O from being depleted in the water filled air soil air spaces until air can get back into them. High O levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth and discourage unwanted bacteria/fungi.
I know it comes in several different strengths. I'm thinking 3%, 5%, 8% and 35% solutions. Cheapest is 35% which you dilute (to 3%) by mixing 1:11 with water. Plastic or glass is best to store it in, & the container should be opaque to prevent light degradation. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. Once you have it mixed at 3% (or start with 3%) mix it at the rate of 1-1/2 tsp/gallon of water as a cutting dip & up to 2-1/2 tsp/gallon to water containers with on a regular basis. Start at the lower concentration and increase concentrations gradually over a few weeks.
H2O2 in high concentration is a powerful oxidant & will bleach skin white & oxidize almost anything it contacts - quickly, so be careful with it if you use it. A solution that's too strong can kill any organic molecule it contacts. Be SURE you have the correct dilution before you use it, please.
Al
Wish your photos were larger so we can see details ? Meanwhile what type of soil did you use ? Top soil or potting mix ? What brand names ? Be specific with details as it is the only way to analyze your problems. The box that I could make out, tomatos, seemed to be low on mix. Add as much potting mix as you can up to two inches from the top and do not water until your current soil dries up a bit or your plants start to wilt. Be sure to use a quality mix such as Jungle Growth to top dress. Your tomato plants will set new roots.
Hey Tplant!
I used Miracle Gro Potting Mix with compost added in. I cut a huge stem in half and took it in the nursery, and was told that it was not blight or a fungus "problem" because of all of the healthy new growth on the stem. He said tomato season is ending already and thats the way they normally look about now???? Now I am really confused.
Why did you mix compost with Miracle - Gro and why did you use MG as it is not recommended ? Compost hardens and defeats the purpose of a pourous mix of a good container mix such as Jungle Growth. Now I see why you are having problems. Next time follow directions exactly and do not add anything that is not called for in the instructions. I'm surprised the peppers are doing well for their growing requirements are quite similiar. As far as confusion is concerned, I am too ? To say your season is almost over is ridiculous! We are both in zone 10a and our season ends with frost if any ? I am certain your problem was overwatering... Just because they work in a nursery does not necessarily mean they are knowledgeable. More gardens have been ruined by these people by misinformation. If they don't know the answer "They'll make one up !"
Tplant, I did as instructed. I was told to mix in the compost by the nursery. I was told that it would add nutrients to the soil, especially since it was in a container and would need constant fertilezer. They did say that Miracle Gro by itself is not the best potting soil, just a popluar one. The one you mentioned, Jungle Growth is not sold here in California. All they had was Miracle Gro, Scott, LS & Earth Gro(which is a Miracle Gro company). I was told to mix the 3 two cubic feet bags of Miracle Gro with 1 bag of organic compost. I did exactly as i was told. The owner of the nursery said he used to be a farmer, and his son who picked everything out for me has a degree in agriculture, which is why I thought they knew what they were talking about. I wish I would have know about Daves Garden before that.
Hi Kanita! Just thought I'd pop in with my 2¢.
I have found that mixing compost with potting mix makes a rather compact mass that doesn't drain very well. Still, I've manage to grow tomatoes in containers in such a mix, but they seem to get a bit stunted. The ones in just plain Pro-mix grow faster and fuller. The roots can move more freely in a lighter mix.
I took a look at your pictures, and maybe other folks are seeing something I'm not, but it just looks like what happens to tomato plants (at least to mine): the bottom leaves turn yellow, dry up, and drop off, but there is new, healthy growth otherwise. Are your plants still growing?
Rhonda
Rhonda, the plants are still growing, this moringing there are quite a few flowers opening up as well.
As long as they're growing and producing, I wouldn't worry too much about the brown leaves. Your plants really look quite healthy to me.
Rhonda
My mistake !!!!
This message was edited Jul 24, 2005 3:41 PM
No problem Tplant. I appreciate your feed back. I've learned more from you than I have from the so called "experts" that own the nursery I went to. I am going to start using EB's and follow the instructions you gave.
