Tall perennials are leaning/falling down

Every year about this time, my 2 - 4 foot tall perennials all start to get a bad case of the "droops". Some parts of my perennial beds are really sad looking. Short of staking each plant, are there any ways/techniques of dealing with the droops?

You could try sticking shrub branches in amongst them for support. Sometimes, with the right branches it can be done very discretely. It works best if you put the branches in before the plants are flopping over.

Check out 'The Well-Tended Perennial Garden' by Tracy DiSabato-Aust. She lives in Sunbury, Ohio and has done extensive research on pinching, pruning and shearing perennials at various times in the growing season to make them shorter and sturdier and also to stagger bloom times. She has lists of many plants and when to pinch/prune as well as comparison photographs. I think you will find her information very helpful.

That's a great book. I refer to it often. Don't be afraid to cut them back, but just don't go too far. If you have the book, check the plant specific recommendations. As for the staking, I like to use small twigs, preferably with a fork in them to support the "neck" of the plant.

I collect twigs, just as described by sstateham, and keep them in a wide pot so I can choose the one or ones I need. The "neck" is so important to have at the right height, which is different for each plant.
Various lengths are also important.

I feel your pain. This time of year everything gets huge and lush just how we want it, then winds and rains make all those towering beauties flop. I'm using everything I can get my hands on; twigs, tomatoe cages(for the things I caught small and remembered flopping last year), and those metal stakes from Lowes with a C shaped hook at the top(different sizes, all for less than $1). Still have'nt gotten a handle on it; just letting some of the Asiatic lilies flop since they're just about done anyway. The metal stakes from Lowes are really good for lilies and other single stalks. Good luck.

At the end of the year when we clean up the garden looks silly with the stakes up but it does help me remember in the springtime to clean up around them because I'll need them.

You can also take tomato cages and cut them into sections. The smallest, lowest ring works well for low growing plants and the upper two-thirds are good for medium size plants. I also use an entire cage for plants like delphiniums and tall asters and campanulas.

Over the years I have utilized all of the techniques mentioned. I posted just to see if somebody had discovered anything different that made it easier to stay on top of situation. I find that as I get older, I am less inclined to do things like fuss with droopy plants in the heat of the summer and more included to sit in the shade with a glass of lemonade and enjoy the beauty of my yard and flower beds and the birds/butterflies they attract.

So be it, then. Have a nice lemonade and let them flop! Sometimes you just have to bless the mess.

Stacy

Grow short plants. :^)

Yardenman: Us, too!

Yes, NoH20. That is what I do. I finally gave up on the Delphiniums, Hollyhocks, etc. They are beautiful but not when the wind and rain breaks them off right where your stake or ties stop.

Lupins are pretty good for short Delphiniums. I guess you can tell yourself that. I am taking my chances on Rudbeckias and hopefully they will make it without "flopping".

Jeanette

Our lupines fell over and blocked a path. We have them elsewhere and the ones that receive the most sun do not flop. Delphiniums are flopping and staked in their pots, awaiting a vacancy.

Jnette - I cut my rudbeckia back to about half in mid spring. They bloom later but stay shorter, and don't tend to flop as much. Almost all my delphiniums have had to be staked, but they're all just one or two year old plants. I'm hoping as they grow up they'll fill in enough to support themselves.

sstateham, my rudbeckias are real thick this year and I think it is because I left them in the 4 inch pots so long. Started from seeds. They aren't like rudbeckias at all. More like zinnias or something of that nature. So maybe they won't flop. I am sure that is the cause because there are 2 different kinds, Maya and Autumn Colors and they both look like that. Guess I should have planted them out sooner. But then again, maybe I shouldn't have. LOL

Maybe I found the trick.

Jeanette

Yardenman, I don't stake at all. I layer my plants down from back to front, tallest to shortest and plant intensively. The plants hold each other up. For ex: eupatorium in back, phlox next towards the front, then monarda next, then nepeta. The stronger the plant the more it will hold the ones in back up. I find phlox to be very supportive of tall plants. Here is a picture of what I mean. This type of garden, of course, is not for everyone. And it requires more water, as it's planted so closely, also I have to divide more than usual. The border is two years old. Please excuse-- not much in bloom right now, and don't look at our grass. It has been a horrible drought year here. Polly

Jeanette: most plants prefer soil 55 degrees or more. So many people lose plants or plants don't ever become what they should be (impatiens, in particular) because people race out to buy and plant before the soil is really warm.

We wait at least two weeks after the soil (not the air) temperature is above 55 to plant out our seedlings. I think that's the reason for your success!

As for staking I agree completely with PollyK. Each one holds the next one up. The tall Asiatics, even when bare will hold up the Echinacea and, being green stalks, are invisible. Lilies are a treasure that way!

Pirlgirl

Hey Pirl Girl, love the way you twisted my screw up into a success. And you are so right about people buying too early and the plants rotting. It's called "cabin fever".

Thanks, Jeanette

Polly your planting is really cool.

The real PIRL, not me - the imitation, once said, "Do you have cabin fever?" and I had no idea what she meant. She thought it was funny that I hadn't heard of it but I was in my twenties and we never used that phrase.

Actually I truly believe it's the uninformed, not stupid, people who want to rush into action to be the first to have their plants in place. Once they understand the plants want more warmth, and being planted in cold soil and given a drink of cold water is not exactly a cruise in the Bahamas for the plants, they can wait another week or two. Also, many use the excuse if they don't buy right away they won't get their choice of plants. They can protect them outside and still not plant until it's time.

You did not screw up Jeanette: you had perfect timing.

Pirlgirl

Maybe what I did was planted my seeds too soon in the house. Now THAT is cabin fever in the nth degree because I know better except that my one excuse is that a lot of times I want to try new plants like the Rudbeckias and maybe don't believe the seed packs 'cause they say the same thing for almost everything.

Whatever, anyway my first Maya Rudbeckia is blooming today and she is pretty even if she is a bit stocky instead of being light and willowy on her feet. She will hold the other girls up though. Maybe she is a "HE"!!
LOL

Jeanette

great discussion.

and pollyk I love your border, blooming or not, and I hope you post more pics when the bloom comes in!

And, NoH2O, thanks for pointing out the Tracy D.-Aust research on perennial staking--I have that book and skipped over those pages, but now I realize that she had some important pointers on when to cut back, etc...so I'll have to re-read!

Have fun gardening this weekend. t.

Here I sit, looking at dark and rainy skies, saying to myself that we don't have any perennials to be cut back: OMG the Asters! We have a huge "hill" of them. It will have to wait until Monday - nobody will know the difference. If I repeat it ten times then maybe I'll believe it.

Pirl Girl, you cannot do anything about the weather. Make the most of it. How many people do you have on the tour? Too many to make them some lemonade? LOL

I am sure those people know it would not be natural if you did not have something yet to do. Like that big hill of Asters.

Tobasco, You like our discussion even with the silliness? Guess that means I am tired and need to go to bed.

Jeanette

Doesn't it seem that there has been more "weather" this year? Or am I just getting lazier? We've had at least four storms of the type that flatten taller plants, and two of them occurred when it was impossible for me to get out and stake. The result: plants turned skyward, and staking them up would have created stems with right angles, tops parallel to the ground. So, I let them lie there to see what would happen. Oxeye daisies, feverfew, mallow, lambs ears--a mess, and I wound up cutting them off early. Catmint, short yarrow, geranium, mountain bluet started growing from the center of the plant and look acceptable. Some of these plants are growing in marginal sun, which makes them looser to begin with. But the heat and rain have brought some good things, too. The annuals that I got into the ground and into pots WAY too late and which had nearly perished on the driveway waiting for me (OK, I admit it, some of them actually did die), put on about two weeks growth in two days, letting me know I was forgiven. And, best of all, we haven't had any hail, which so often comes just when the hostas are leafing out. It seems every year presents its own challenges, keeping things interesting for those of us who garden.

Yes, I think it has been a cold, wet year so far. I think you and I are in the same, is it latitude? At least the same zone, 5b.

I didn't know there was a short Yarrow. What color is it? I hve red Yarrow and love it, but it sure gets floppy. Darn, there's that word again.

It started raining again tonight for the weekend. We had a few hail storms. last month,. Like big balls. I finally tore all of the leaves off of my brugs because they looked like they had been shot with a shotgun.

Jeanete

Jeanette, the short yarrow is pink, and I don't know if it's a particular cultivar or if it has reverted back to something--though I'd expect a reversion to be white. It was in the garden already when we moved here in 1976, and has been tenacious enough to survive my not-always-friendly gardening techniques! It's about 15" tall. Regarding hail, last May I was out of town for a weekend and returned to a garden that looked as if it had been strafed by machine gun fire. We lived with torn-up hosta all summer, so I am enjoying the presently intact leaves.

I wish we could say here that it's been cooler and wetter than usual. We've had hardly any rain, many days over 90, and we're on a mandated watering schedule. I've been running outside with leftover coffee, ice water, and tea to drizzle over my poor parched plants. On the up side, they like the coffee and iced tea.

Yes, sstateham, I would rather have the cooler weather than the awful heat. I would like from mid 70s to mid 80's. But then wouldn't everybody. LOL

Kneff have you ever tried to get seeds from Yarrow? I have and you almost have to plant the chaff (sic) and all. I have found that the seeds are so tiny, or almost non-existant.

This year I am going to make a real effort to collect seeds. I think the main thing is to make sure they are totally dry before packaging.

Sure hope Pirl's weather is half way good. Those things are so much work.

Expect a good report Pirl Girl. Jeanette

.

Back to the staking issue . . . I am new to gardening as well as to DG, so I expect to be posting lots and lots of questions. So this is my wee offering of an idea in exchange for all of the answers I expect to get in the future!

I have The Well Tended Perennial Garden and love it, but did not follow any of the pinching/pruning advice this year. I wanted to see what the perennials I planted last year would do on their own. I now have a totally floppy, poorly designed (though very much in bloom!) garden. (Polly, I love the look of yours.)

I dug out of my shed the bamboo poles I bought last year with the, ummm, optimistic idea that I would build a traditional Japanese fence. The poles can easily be cut into various lengths and then split in half. Because the poles are hollow, the split length turns out to be a wonderful staking device---it is strong and cradles very large/thick stems without requiring any ties, and it looks natural in the garden.

Next year, I'll take the pinching and pruning approach and hope to find another use for my bamboo!

And that's my 2 cents worth.

Welcome, egiap! I've resorted to worse than bamboo poles, so I know what you're up against. My rudbeckia get so tall (nearly 5') that I've ben weed-whacking them in mid-spring to keep them to a tolerable height. Power-pruning, as I see it :)

The extent of my seeding is picking a seed head, shaking it over the area where I'd like to grow, then waiting to see what comes up next year. Depending on the plant, I've had mixed luck. Columbines don't do so well, but coneflowers, daisies, rudbeckia and phlox have done pretty well considering the lack of effort. We have a very large berm on the back side of the pond that I've been trying to get to naturalize enough to keep the less desirable ickies out. After three years, I'd say I'm about half way there. I wouldn't call it a "well tended perennial garden", but it's 5 acres away from the house, and I'm really going more for mass of color in the distance than anything that would bear scrutiny up close.

I was thinking about Pirl this morning and her garden walk. She's been putting so much effort into getting everything ready that I'm sure it will go great.

We have had spotty thunderstorms with rain for the past two days, and I'm worried that the same weather will make it to NY during pirl's garden walk. I do hope not! That would be a real disappointment after all the work preparing and the walkers' anticipation.

Jeanette, I'm like sstateham when it comes to seeds. I have neither the patience nor the space to start seeds in an organized fashion, but I do let many seeds ripen on the plants. Then I shake them below or anyplace I'm willing to have those plants grow. The birds also do their own thing, so I find a lot of plants coming up in interesting places. The ones that I always scatter around are echinacea, feverfew, rose campion, and mullein (the 7' wild kind). I then pull out the unwanted seedlings and keep some to move elsewhere. Phlox, heuchera, mallow, sundrops, daisies and annual cleome reseed on their own, and if I knew how to control rudbeckia (gold type) or ladybells I'd be a happy woman! The problem for more tender seedlings (like columbine) in my garden is that they come up fine, but then are overwhelmed by the much larger plants surrounding them, and by slugs. That's where a nursery bed would be great, but I really have no place for it. Yarrow seedlings seem to have the same trouble as the columbine--can't compete unless they're larger. If I want new yarrow, I buy 4" pots, which bloom large the year after they're planted.

And the staking, which is where this thread started--when I do it properly, the garden in spring (before cleanup) looks like a stake graveyard! I like the individual poles with a loop at the top (for lilies and such) and the type with two legs connected by a curved piece--get them mostly from Smith & Hawken and have several sizes. They work great for the floppy, bushy plants, and don't show if I get them low enough on the plant.

Welcome, egiap! I like your bamboo idea. The individual poles must be fairly wide to hold a plant stem. I've only used the kind that are about 1/2" in diameter to stake hollyhocks (a plant I love but finally gave up on because they were being totally disfigured by weevils and sawfly larvae).

Welcome egiap! So glad to have you posting and if the rest of your comments are as useful as your split bamboo suggestion, we need lots of your ideas...it sounds like a good solution to my floppy issue.

I'm in the same boat as you with my perennial garden...I planted it last year and had no idea how it would develop, and now I'm wondering what I was thinking! Too crowded, too many colors and I can't tell what's a plant and what's a weed...oh, well...next year I'll know better. DG members have helped me a lot, and I hope you like it here, too! (-:

And I hope Pirl is blessed with a beautiful day for her garden walk. I have been thinking of her as I've been weeding today! Sending good kharma her way!

Happy gardening. t.

Thanks Tabasco! We had full sunshine and nice breezes. Yesterday we had terrible rains and unbelievable winds. Up before 6 AM, deadhead 2,398 daylily heads and, as we saw Sidalcea, Yarrow and Lovage lying down we thought this is a good tour for really short people. Anyone the size of a gnome would love the flowers on the ground!

Some bounced back and some part of the way: gave it a "carefree" effect! With cookies to bake, lemonade and raspberry iced tea to make, plants to get in and last minute rose deadheading and cleaning up, I'm surprised "we" are still awake. Since it's 10:33 and you know I'm here, I bet you can guess who must be sound asleep in his chair!

"A good time was had by all" as the real PIRL would have said!

Arlene

Cute PIRL!!!! So glad all went well. How many do you get on those tours? Glad the weather cooperated and the ones on the ground and the ones trying to make it back up just lend character. I am sure they all had a wonderful time.

Can't believe you are not zonked.

Hi Egiap, glad to get some new ideas. I like the bamboo idea. And I also am wondering how big the bamboo is that you use? I have the 1/2 inch too but wonder if it is strong enough.

Kneff my garden looks like a stake bone yard also but I have decided that instead of using he stakes because I cut the dead plants off before the snow flies, that I would use the small flags. My stakes do fall over, some of them, because of the rocky soil. I think it would be easier to tell where the plants are in the spring with flags and once weeded then the flags can be replaced by the stakes. I have only seen the white and the orange flags but I think the orange would be best.

Just a thought and I think they cost about 10 cents each so not a big investment if I don't like them.

Egiap, I am sorry to hear that you did not nip the ends of your plants the first year. Actually on some like Cotoneaster I would cut them back even farther. I pinch, nip, prune, whatever you want to call it, all of my plants when or before I plant them. Even most of the annuals, depending on what they are. If I start plants like petunias, coleus etc. from seed I even pick out the centers with tweezers because it does start the plants out to be bushy.

Yes, you guys, I do have a lot of time in the winter. Very rural and almost 5 or 6 months of snow. Some people knit, some crochet, some do other arts and crafts, some tend livestock, milk cows, I do seed planting.

Jeanette

Jeanette,

Knitting and crocheting and arts and crafts are fine to an extent: then you have to find people who WANT the arts and crafts unless you sell them. I still have every piece from my late mom. I keep them starched just as she did.

Winters are spent, here, reading, hunting for seeds, doing any painting, papering, etc. so we won't have to think about it in summer when our garden takes precedence over everything else, even making dinner!

I love the idea of bamboo. I used to have a big supply and gradually they broke and the really short 5" plants really do not need any support! Now I have to go find a new supply of bamboo. It looks so natural (and is) as opposed to DH pounding in 5' pieces of lumber and using string. I keep telling him that it's just not "romantic". He doesn't think it's too "romantic" when he gets slapped in the face with the baptisia while he's mowing either! :-))

I envy the down time you have in winter, Jeanette. I spend the winter going through my catalogs and garden files making to-buy and to-do lists. The neighbors kid got arrested a while back for growing what he should not have been growing - I wonder if he'd want to take charge of growing delphinium seedlings for me. Might be a better use fro his green thumb.

I use the bright orange or hot pink flags to mark plants that are in my sweety's weed-whacking danger areas. I hadn't thought of using them to mark babies in the garden.

Pirl - good luck today.

I found this gardener's prayer on the internet the other day.
_____________________________________

The Gardener's Prayer by Karel Capek

Oh Lord, grant that it in some way may rain every day, say from about midnight until three o'clock in the morning...but You see, it must be gentle and warm so that it can soak in; grant that at the same time it would not rain on Campion, Alyssum, Helianthemum, Lavender and other plants which You in Your infinite wisdom know are drought-loving plants...I will write their names on a bit of paper if You like...and grant that the sun may shine the whole day long, but not everywhere (not for instance on Spirea, or on Gentian, Plantain-lily or Rhododendron), and not too much...that there be plenty of dew and little wind, enough worms, no plant lice and snails, no mildew, and that once a week thin, liquid manure and guano may fall from Heaven.

sstateham--you've provided my first good laugh of the day! She forgot to ask that invasive plants not invade, though.

pirl--Please tell us about your garden walk. Were there lots of folks? So glad the weather held for it. Were there other gardens on the tour as well? I imagine you are exhausted today, now that your adrenaline has subsided.

I got a big kick out of that - enough that I printed it out and I'm thinking about framing it up in my potting room.

The prayer is wonderful and I agree about invasive plants not wandering Kneff! The thought behind it reminds me of the song from Camelot! Love that song. "The snow can only fall upon the hillside..."

The Southold Historical Society's Garden Club selected 8 gardens for the public to view and ours made the list along with a friend's gardens. I met her in '98 when she came to the original one at our home and I encouraged her and supplied her with a lot of plants, mainly just daylilies. The first time we had 212 guests but this time not as many since a neighboring town was having an "Art in the Garden" tour. One person, a guest, managed to get to both and said she liked the other one more. Well, if these individual villages out here could just get their act together and decide on what town is doing what event and when there wouldn't be as much confusion!

The tour did give us a great opportunity to give personal attention and sit and chat with each person! The docents happened to be neighbors, also, so that made it so much more personal!

I'll have to take a few photos of the flopped perennials and then remember to buy bamboo stakes this week.

I'll post later today, under Garden Talk, a thread about it. Just look for "pirl".

Kneff: "subsided"?! Adrenline is at an all time low. The last guests left at 8:42, Jack fell asleep in his chair, and I was so pumped up I was on DG until 10:33!

Thanks for remembering! (as though I could have let anyone forget!)