Ok Hoa_rd, I just bumped it to you. It is Niobe Clematis by me jnette. Only 9 responses on it
Some general clematis questions
Hello Jeanette!
Yes, 3" deep is wonderful. I can understand the fears of people but you just have to do it. I dump half a bag of manure on top, when I'm done planting anyhow. So my 1.5 to 2" has to be worth at least 3". I first sprinkle a handful of 5-10-5 and lime, then the manure on top, almost every year. Sometimes, with a wet spring or a busy spring I do forget but they're here and thriving. I think the reason some don't make it is that they have a secret death wish. That's all I can come up with after planting more than 75 of them. Some just refuse to try to grow and God's in charge of those!
Arleen, is the 3" rule good for southern gardens, too? How about for clematis that wonderful people send through the mail? ;-) I just planted mine like normal plants, so I hope I haven't killed them.
Life is way too short to worry: get a 40 lb. bag of manure and just dump it over the clematis. At this point in time you can't lose a thing. If I ever root another one I'll send it to you and you can plant it in the same general area: that should pretty well guarantee that you'll have two coming up there! LOL
Brain started functioning again!!! If you're concerned, just dig it up and I bet you'll find roots. Then just replant it with manure!
I'll definitely do that. I really appreciate the advice.
Pirl, if I use the bagged stuff which should I use: Steer or chicken? I have both. Also have 10-30-10 and lime. ok??? Jeanette
Jnette: I'd go for steer, a handful of lime (takes a year to work so I do it almost every year - sometimes I do forget!) and a sprinkle of the 10-30-10. They need to form a good solid root system and that middle number is for flowers. I'd really go with 10-10-10 but if this is all you have then use it. Let me know how it does.
Pirl, funny I have a whole 3 shelves of fertilizers etc. looks like I am competing with Lowes or HD and every numbers game we get into I have something like it but not "IT". Got Triple 20. Think I'll go with the 10-30-10. Thanks, Jeanette
If it were my plant I'd use 20-20-20 - it's a nice even balanced fertilizer. But it's your garden so go with whatever you feel you want to do. :-))
Screwed up again Pirl, it was 15-30-15 The "new" all purpose fert since MG bought out Peters Triple 20. Jeanette
Just don't go crazy with it. The high middle number tells the plant to push flower growth. The plant should be trying to make roots and NOT push flowers now. Many really expert gardeners will cut off all flowers and stems from their perennials for the first few years (yes, that's plural!) to give the roots all the growth possible. Then they let them flower in year 4 or 5.
I'm not one of those expert gardeners!
Guess the one I am mostly thinking about is about 5 or6 years old. The one that I had to dig up and replant. Will heed your advice on my new little Niobe tho. You are completely right about those roots. Thanks. Jeanette
Good luck Jeanette. I have and love Niobe. I have it in a little shade because of the depth of color. I'm sure it would be much more lush if it were in full sun. Sorry, Niobe - you're staying put!
It does have specialized pruning instructions, not like the others.
Pirl, I need thos special pruning instructions for Niobe. IMine is so small I wasn't concerned with them yet, but, hopefully some day she will need it.
I still haven't figured out my pruning instructions for Miss Nelly Moser. The older one.
Jeanette
I never touch Nelly. If she has old dead growth in spring I'll cut that back but otherwise, nothing.
Niobe: you CAN prune it after it blooms to contain the size and it will rebloom no matter what you do. Some years it can appear to be totally gone/dead/brown leaved. I cut all of that off and still get normal blooms at the normal time. I don't touch that one in March like you would for the Jackmanii's.
Yeah but Pirl, Nelly gets new growth out of all of that, what looks like old dead wood. That is why I don't know when you prune her. I just got Niobe so I will remember what you said. thanks, Jeanette
Jeanette: can you possibly ask me this again tomorrow afternoon when I'm more awake and able to give you a logical answer? The heat just wiped me out.
Two about to bloom, the two I'm most excited about-- Nelly Moser (one bud) and Jackmanii (at least 5-6 buds).
Will post a pic as soon as they appear . . . no great developments on the others, but most are growing nicely.
Jeanette - you can prune ANY clematis after it flowers. You'd be doing it to control future growth. Jackmanii prefers early March and so do all in it's class.
Wayside Gardens provides excellent pruning information. I'll check to see what they have available on the web and let you know.
Thanks :Pirl, I put strings up for my Nelly and it has gone to the top of them and then about 2 feet or more waving around. Don't know if she is going to bloom or not. She had one blossom earlier.
Jeanette
The rule is to cut back before August if you want blooms the next year. Now, since Niobe blooms on both old and new wood, if it were mine I'd cut it back to 2'. But it's yours! Do what pleases you and I hope you get lots of blooms.
I tried finding information through Wayside, last night, but they're pushing the new Raymond Evison clematis, Rosemoor. I can check my own notes and get back to you and all who own Niobe.
If you decide NOT to cut it back then give it some Bloom Buster or some food with a high middle number to encourage flowers. The 5-10-5's won't do it. It will need more like 10-45-10. If you don't already have it, check with your nurseries as there are many products that encourage bloom.
Thanks, I think I have some of that. Then would you suggest pruning after it blooms? I thought I had always heard not to fertilize perennials after July because the new growth would freeze. Now I am talking about Nelly.
Jeanette
If you use a Bloom Buster type of product just do it once. Also mark your calender or put notes on Nelly and Niobe on your computer so you'll have your own reference of what you did and when you did it.
If you don't get more blooms within two weeks consider pruning it back enough to have an attractive vine.
An alternative would be to write an email to Wayside Gardens and ask them, since they sell both. Make sure you give them your zone. It would be interesting to read what they reply.
I put a root blastter on my Niobe last week 'cause he is just a little guy. I put the lime on like you said and also the steer manure. He has a lot of new growth. But, I was aiming for good roots more than anything, and the way I have him planted, in a gallon pot , planted in a large cedar/redwood tub, I cannot tell whether I am getting those roots or not. But next spring will dig him up to replant him without the gallon pot so I should know.
Will follow through on Nelly.
Jeanette
I think we need a clematis forum-- funny how this thread becaomes one by default every time it gets dredged up :-)
The nelly bud's still staring at me, about to burst. Jack's got about 4 open blooms and maybe 3 more on the ready-- this is great! Pics tomorrow . . .
I'm just working on getting some new plants strong and stable so they survive the winter-- I doubt I'll be doing any cutting back.
Hoa_rd you might do like I am and use a root blaster. Not sure which one of the NPK is for roots but that is what I am aiming for with my little Niobe.
Jeanette
There is a little quote about when to feed the clematis and I don't remember it precisely but it's something like:
When the crocus shows it's head
And when all the leaves are dead.
Pirl, what do dead crocus have to do with my Climatis? LOL
Jeanette
Feeding time for clematis:
(In the spring) WHEN THE CROCUS SHOW IT'S HEAD
Then again in the fall: WHEN ALL THE LEAVES ARE DEAD.
It's someone's little ryhme to say March and November. Got it?
I get the quiote but don't understand feeding in November. What kind of fertilizer, or is that the lime, would you feed in November that wouldn't send them into confusion? Feed and so cold they freeze?
Jeanette
It was in a book or an article on clematis. Since all I give them is a handful of lime in springtime, with a handful of 5-10-5, then a half of a 40 lb. bag of deoderized manure, I don't know what they're feeding them in November. If anything (because I'm worn out by November) I might give them a few shovels of compost, but that's it.
Hey Pirl Girl, I hear you. I don't know too many people that are thinking about fertilizing in November. Jeanette
Well, since you're in zone 5a, maybe you could change it to late September. Does that sound better to you? We garden until the second week of December and then do Christmas shopping and then collapse!
Pirlgirl (love the name, thank you so much!)
So when do your plants start waking up in the spring Pirl? We still have snow in late April and usually into May. We have a long winter because we are in the mountains. We, and the plants need a rest, but not that long. Not as long as we get.
If I were to fertilize in September, when would that kick in with my plants? The local specialist says on her radio show, and I don't know if this is just for our area, that you shouldn't fertilize after July because the new growth will get hit by frost.
Jeanette
I would listen to her but then I guess you'd be down to feeding them just once a year.
Here we cut back the Jackmanii, to 12 to 18", and apply my special blend, the first week of March, providing there is no snow. This past winter we had many snow storms but many were 3 or 4 inches and as soon as it would disappear I could get out and do little jobs to get me back in shape.
That's one long winter for you folks. I thought two months was too much if we were snow covered but I guess we all adapt to where we live. I'd rather have the snow than the heat and humidity of some areas when it looks like a beautiful day but only if you stay inside in the AC. That's definitely too much of a tease and I'd probably be up at 4 to get things done and know the emergency room doctors for my sunstroke stays! :-))
Arlene
Yes, we do have long winters. Now, I could take the snow if that was all we had, but the ice and frozen ground is what takes so long to leave. The snow actually insulates the plants against the freezing cold.
We had a real lightening storm today. When it moved through it took the temperture from mid 80s down to 53 in a hurry. So it really cooled things off. That doesn't happen a lot. But it did start some fires, fortunately for us they weren't in our area.
That is probably the biggest drawback to living in the forests, the constant threat of fires.
Jeanette
You have the threat of fires and down in Florida it's the hurricaines and flooding. We've lived through the "storm of the century" back in '91 and the water came up halfway on the lot across the street from us but had a long way to go and a steep slope before it could even make it to the street. All the water people have their sump pumps at the ready.
Everyplace has some threat it seems.
I agree about the ice taking it's time to melt. The longest we had was in '92 when the ice on the water was only melted on St. Patrick's Day.
Whether winters are mild or long and freezing our clematis seems to like it and I've never lost an established one.
Hooray! Jack in bloom!!!
This was a puny Michigan Blub purchase (May or early June)-- started blooming Thursday.
http://www.bikechicago.info/pics/813/jackblooms.jpg
http://www.bikechicago.info/pics/813/jackandbasil.jpg
The Nelly Moser purchased from American Nursery taunts me with a large, solitary bud:
http://www.bikechicago.info/pics/813/nellybud.jpg
http://www.bikechicago.info/pics/813/nellywhole.jpg
Got a bunch that haven't bloomed yet-- not sure who's going to be next.
You might want to mark down the dates although it may not hold true from this, their first year, on to future years. It's nice to know when to expect them to bloom and I do keep lists.