Dying tree...how can you tell?

I have an ancient silver maple at least 3 stories high on very corner of my front yard. Bounded by a blacktopped driveway on one side, the sidewalk in front of it, then my side yard. It LOOKS healthy to me. But during a storm, we lost a huge branch and the inside of it was darker than the rest of the wood.

A friend who used to work for a tree service said it was dying. He said the middle dark part meant it was dying.

My question: if that is true, can we save it? Did the former owners ensure it would die by planting it next to the driveway and sidewalk where the roots couldn't be exposed? If it's dying...how long does it take? Thanks, guys. BTW, a smaller silver maple next door, also bounded by driveway and sidewalk, is definitely dying, it has zero leaves on at least a third of the branches.

wish it wasn't but it probably is.
silver maples are bought many times for their fast growth but they are also not a long-lived tree and they're also know for storm damage plus the tremendous surface root system.

could be a blessing in disguise. Let insurance pay for it's removal and then get you a quality tree.

What is the life span of a silver maple? My neighborhood is full of huge ones that must be about 50 years old because that's when the houses were built. Are they all going to fall at once some day? It'll look pretty funny if they do. The ones in my yard have lost a number of limbs over the years, to storms and the city's "trimming" (butchering!) plan, but they keep going strong. I've been told that they grow fast but the trade off is a fairly weak wood.

Yep - fast growth means weak wood in many cases.
You'll find some sources (usually those trying to sell them) that will list 100+ years.
More fact finding and you'll see short-lived (25-40 years) repeated along with the sewer and septic tank drain field clogging, pavement lifting system of shallow dense roots.

Extremely weak wood susceptible to wind and ice damage and if yours is 50 years old now I'd personally figure removal will be cheaper than totaling a vehicle, repairing a house or other things. The only advantage of a silver maple is the fast growth for shade but the disadvantages far outweigh that. They're also highly susceptible to mites, aphids and scale.

Eeeek. Thanks for the advice. I had a bunch of ugly ones taken down last year, this one may be the next to go.

We recently had a green ash taken down as it was pretty well dead. Now thinking about a caltalpa. It was sad though, I miss it.

Just spoke to a neighbor, those trees were VERY mature when they moved in 35 years ago.

Broke the bad news to my husband, thanks for the advice. It's really unfortunate, it shades the hot sun in the afternoon. But it's nice to have a heads up on it, can budget for the removal and plants something nicer in it's place.

Any recommendations? Remember it's in a corner bounded by the sidewalk and a driveway.

You'll narrow it down fairly quick by first taking into consideration, time and money.
How long will you live there? Are you in a hurry and need instant shade?
If you're not going to be around to appreciate a quality tree and/or watch it grow up, then you probably don't want to put good money into it. If you want instant shade you can get 20+ tree delivered but it's going to be very expensive and probably cost you half the price of the tree for installation. Availability then comes into play. The local nurseries, garden centers and dept parking lots are probably full of silver and red maples, Norway maples, crab apples and ornamental cherries and probably poplars. All so typical of what new subdivisions like to put in. Plentiful, cheap and fast growing but messy, suckering, seeding, and/or shallow rooted. Oh yeah - you may want to check with the city. Mine has an approved list for "Street Trees".

Apparently the Silver Maple did well there and if you want a similar tree. Find the a Sugar Maple. There's several varieties but a Sugar Maple in full fall color is a beautiful thing.

When you start looking, if you're going to stick with a deciduous tree, get something with multiple seasons of interest. Does it flower? Is the spring foliage an interesting color? Does it have fall color? Does it have interesting bark as in the color or that it peels (exfoliates)?

If you want to go with conifers you'll have to consider whether the city uses salt on the roads in the winter. Most of them will end up with burnt brown needles on the street side where they get splashed or misted with the salty spray during melts.

If you want the best of both worlds, fast growth (3' per year in optimum conditions) and this area gets water, I'm a huge fan of the Dawn Redwood. Metasequoia Glyptostroboides. It's actually a conifer but in the fall the soft needles turn a burnished coppery orange like a lit match, then drops all the needles. So they don't dessicate in winter winds or get burn by chemical spray from deicing the street. Their bark peels and eventually the trunk is fluted (I think thats correct) where it looks like a rough skin has been pulled around a bundle of individual poles. It can reach 100' in the wild but this is a long-lived tree. Related to the Sequoias and Redwoods out west. Here's the kicker. It was ONLY known from fossils and thought to be extinct until a stand was found in China in the mid 1940's. If that area tends to be wet, great! I have 3 now. The first I got as a 12" seedling from National Arbor Day foundation 4 or 5 years ago. It's approaching 15 feet now. The other two I started from cuttings and are now about 7'. Last year I gave 3 away I started from seed.

Have fun shopping. :)

while we're on the subject of dieing trees, I have a Eastern Red Ceder that is at least 60+ years old. Although the foliage is still very green, it is shedding more then it has in past years. Also, it is bleeding sap but there is no sign of insect damage. There are no apple trees in the vicinity. I'm going to try and send a pic of the bleeding. Bob

We're in an extreme drought condition but I've watered my Austrian pine regularly and heavy. I noticed the other day it has white formations in a few places in the canopy where it's lost some small twigs branches. Just good water uptake I think and sealing those wounds. If the existing foliage still looks good, it's probably just a reaction to the seasons weather conditions.

Is it drier or wetter this year than is has been?

You may be right, it is a lot drier this year and hotter. I hope thats all it is. Thanks, Bob

Bob - It's likely what you're seeing is exudate from slime flux disease (also called bacterial wetwood). I can think of no biological reason that drought would cause this symptom. When trees need to get rid of surplus water, they go through a process called "guttation", but that manifests itself primarily in foliage & small twigs. I'm new to the forum & don't know how to post a link, so I'll try leaving an address for you to look at.

I sure don't wish to come off as argumentative, but the practice of sealing wounds on trees has been shown to be counter-productive & has fallen by the way.

Al

For an overview of slime flux disease:

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/garden/02910.html

Al - I totally agree about not sealing wounds. I've never put anything on all the branches and limbs I prune. In my comment above, I meant that since there were fresh cuts from this spring and not healed yet, the tree may have been exuding more sap as it first does in the spring. Except this is hardening in place and basically creating a cap over the wound.

blaine

Oops. I have about 30 juniper bonsai, as wall as many in the landscape & have not yet seen one bleed, even after what would be considered harsh pruning, so I would still bet that he is witnessing evidence of slime flux. Sorry I misunderstood your post to mean you suggested the use of a pruning sealer.

Al

I just looked at the link you provided.... "slime flux disease" is pretty scary sounding and you almost had me worrying. :) Anyway, that's nothing close to what the Austrian Pine is doing. If I saw symptoms like that, I'd definitely be thinking disease.

I'll try to get a pic posted tonight.

thanks .. blaine

Tapla, I went to the link and bacterial wetwood does sound somewhat like the syptoms on my tree. However, so far the ooze is more like a syrup and has not dried to a white color as discribed in the article. I have a friend that owns a farm supply company, he is trying to get in touch with someone he knows that is suposed to be a conifer expert for the state. Any information he gives me I will post here. If it is bacterial wetwood, and if I read the article correctly, the tree shouldn't die from it. One other thing, this tree hasn't been pruned in the last 10 or more years and all the wounds caused by pruning have long since healed. Glad to have you here in Dave's Garden Tapla and I wouldn't worry about being argumentitive, different views should always be accepted in the learning process. Thanks to everyone who contributed, Bob

8ftbed - my slime flux comments were directed toward Bob's post - not yours. No wonder the symptoms don't match, eh? You probably thought I'm goofy. ;o)

Bob - best treatment for bacterial wetwood (if that's accurate) is to keep the tree healthy & free from stresses to the best of your ability. There is no practical aggressive treatment program. Interested in learning an expert's diagnosis. I'll mark this thread. Take good care. You too, 8ftbed.

Al

tapla, I'll be sure to post what I fine out. Good luck with your trees 8ftbed.

no tapla, I knew they were for Bob... that's just a trecherous sounding disease! :)

btw, here's a shot of what my Austrian pine is doing and when taking a break at work today I noticed the pine I was standing under was doing the same thing.

this is another, a bit further up the trunk

8ftbed - I didn't give the disease its name, I only borrowed it from some one else who named it. ;o) The cankers you show in the photos are also caused by fungi - relatives of the fungi that cause slime flux. The fungi entered the tree via the wounds seen in the first pic & through an improper pruning cut in the second. If you go Googling for pictures of pine cankers, you'll find many similar to your photos.

Take care.

Al