Small tree suggestions

I have a small area in the back of my house that we now have a pink flowering dogwood in. That tree is dying. I would like to replace it with another small tree; 20 to 30 feet tall and not spreading by more than 20 feet. I have had mimosa there previously but that didn't work either. I would rather have a small deciduous tree and one that blooms. That is why I asked in previous threads about franklin, golden rain, and golden chain. I do have flowering crabapples down the lane so don't really want any more of these. I have a star magnolia in the front garden. So not another one of those either. Something different would be great. Non suckering would be the best too. Picky , picky aren't I?

Why not plant a fruit tree? Just not the Bing Cherry since it's suckering along the surface roots like cherry bushes.

My most trouble free have been Nectarines. Because of them, I added 2 dwarf peaches last spring and they bloomed this spring.

If you want a small tree and want flowers, you might as well have snacks to boot.

That is an idea, we do have a fruit orchard though here on the farm. I wish I could do a peach or a nectarine. Our climate is pretty damp and I remember Dad trying to raise peaches and it was extremely difficult here, he had to do lots of spraying.

Have you considered a Kousa dogwood? I just planted a Cornus Kousa "Big Apple" I ordered from Raintree. That one produces colorful fruit which is edible; I am using it as a wildlife plant (look on their website for a pic!). Also I have a Cornus Kousa "Summer Stars". Neither has bloomed yet but the latter is about 6 feet tall and I expect it to bloom next year. In the catalogs the "wolf eyes" cultivar is also beautiful. Kousa dogwood are more hardy than Cornus Florida. I'm sure you could browse pix of DG members to see more!

I'm not an expert but I am a tree fanatic. As you can tell, since I've already tried Goldenrain, Goldenchain and Franklinia the ones you've mentioned. Mountain Ash are beautiful (but mine's not doing well in hot Alabama)

Actually I have thought about cornus kousa. I have a mountain ash and it is very tall. My space wouldn't allow for something that tall in this particular place. Actually I am toying with mock orange. Nothing says it has to be a tree ; maybe a large shrub trained to go taller than fatter. I have seen mock oranges here 15 feet tall and taller.

I've got a mock orange too, believe it or not. It's kinda small but I haven't been planting trees/shrubs very long. (When I got interested in horticulture it was in a big way!)

European mtn ash are larger than American mtn ash but if you have one of either you probably want something new. I also have a heptacodium (seven sons flower) small tree that I am very fond of; it has a nice curving shape and the flowers are supposed to be attractive (mine hasn't bloomed yet) and it blooms late in the summer when other trees have quit and it does have peeling bark that is attractive all year.

Persimmons are great too. They have gorgeous fall color and have fruit that hangs on after the leaves are gone. I have several native persimmons and also planted an Asian persimmon that has green fruit on it now. They should grow in Oregon; I'm looking at the Raintree catalog right now and they are in Washington and say Asians grow in zones 7-11.

I looked up heptacodiums in my AHS book and I had not heard of that before. That does sound interesting. Now I will look it up on the Oregon Association of Nurseryman site and see if there is any Oregon nursery that grows it.

I would really enjoy planting a small arboreteum just to see all the various trees. I can certainly understand your affinity for trees and shrubs.

Have you ever heard of chionanthus virginicus, the Fringe tree? I have one of these and it is extremely slow grower. It did bloom this year for the first time. It is suckering now and I was wondering if I couldn't try some of these as cuttings?

I just had a thought, what about a witch hazel, hamamelis?

I've got 3 fringe trees; one of them bloomed for me the first time this year. They are slow growing here, too. What surprised me was the nice fragrance of the "fringes". I also have witch hazels...planted April 2002 as tiny things ordered from Musser Forests; they are from 4 to 6 feet tall now but haven't bloomed yet. I put in 3 service berries at the same time and they are up to 7 feet tall but haven't bloomed. They are supposed to be one of the earliest trees to bloom in spring and have fruits for wildlilfe.

I planted Purple Smoke trees that are very pretty; the blooms and the foliage. One of my prettiest trees this spring was a fothergilla that I planted in 2002; It started blooming last year and was gorgeous this spring, and the blooms smell like honey. I don't know how they do in Oregon.

Here's a pic I took of a mature Purple Smoke growing in nearby Birmingham: (I took it with my cell phone camera so it's not hi-resolution)

While my suggestion for a small tree may eventually get larger than you'd like, I would plant Stewartia pseudocamellia. Stewartia pseudocamellia is probably THE most ornamental small tree you can plant in your landscape.

The bark is absolutely beautiful, the June flowers are great and the orange/red fall color is spectacular!

Here is a link to a picture of the bark:

http://www.dawesarb.org/images/stewpseud.jpg

And here is a link to a picture of the flowers:

http://www.dawesarb.org/images/Collections/Stewartia_pseudocamellia.jpg

I have had Stewartia pseudocamellia var. koreana growing in my zone 4a garden since 2001 and the tree is doing great.
Good luck with your selection,
Mike


This message was edited Jun 5, 2005 5:06 PM

Mike I looked up in my AHS book and the stewartia does sound quite nice but I think you were absolutely right when you said it would probably get too big for my space. Must say I agree from what I have read.

Passiflora_pink, the fothergilla sounds more like a large shrub ; probably comparable to a mock orange. But now the Purple Smoke Tree is an interesting prospect. It does sound about the right size and it would be really interesting to have that color of burgundy foliage. I do like the smoky effect of the blooms too. Now I definitely will put that on my list of possibilities. I know it technically doesn't bloom but the color would compensate for no large flower.

Keep those ideas coming. I would love to plant a mock orange and fothergilla somewhere else in the garden.

Any flowering quince pictures especially of some of the new hybrids?

I recommend Vitex or chaste tree. It's a smaller tree and so absolutely beautiful with it's many spiked purple blooms. Heck! It's even beautiful when it *isn't* blooming.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1188/index.html

I have one growing in a huge pot until I can plant inground, and it's quickly become one of my favorites. A healthy, vigorous grower, too! ;-D

Liila, this does look very interesting. I always like the bluish blooms. It reminds me just a little of caryopteris. Thanks for the input.

Passiflora_pink, do you have this shrub/tree that is the chaste tree?

Lenjo, I have a couple of suggestions and photos that might work for you.
I especially like the Elderberries, Sambucus . I like them for their bloom and the fact that the berries are very attractive to birds. I think I have 7 different varieties. Here are a couple of them. DonnaS

I have seen the elderberries, it is definitely very pretty and I believe a pretty fast grower too. Are elderberries in the same family as sambucus? I have a shrub called sambucus niger which is really stunning . It is also called Diablo ninebark.

That Sambucus was nigra pleno. And here is S. nigra pulventata. Another one i really like is Elderberry aureomarginata. DonnaS

Lenjo, Sambucus is the botanical name for Elderberries, but I think someone made a mistake if they told you that Sambucus niger is the same as Physocarpus, Ninebark, Diablo, they are two different shrubs. I have Diablo planted near one of my Elderberries, a nice contrast.. I really enjoy Philadelphus Natchez, planted near my south door, it is so fragrant and such large blooms. I would send a photo but DG is very slow for me this morning is sending. DonnaS

I do have chaste trees--2 small ones. My neighbor has a large one and it is very pretty; I can't think of anything negative to say about it. Plus, the berries are used to treat menopausal symptoms! But I wouldn't advise that without talking to someone who knows more about it...

There is another type of Stewartia...Stewartia malacodendron, or silky camellia, of which I have one. It bloomed for the first time this year; It was beautiful and this fuzzy pic doesn't do it justice: It is a rare native of the Southeastern US.

I've got elderberries too; they are kind of weedy and the trunks break when they get big. I am glad to have them for the birds but I wouldn't use them as ornamentals.

My Stewartia:

My, that is unusual. The purple is rather stunning; even the stems look purple to coordinate with the eye of the flower.

Here's a nice one: Southern Catalpa. I have 3 that are too small to bloom but here is one I spotted driving to work recently. There is a Northern Catalpa also. (cell phone camera)

Closeup of blooms:

I would love to have a catalpa tree. I would definitely find a place for one. Maybe down by the pond. Do you have seeds of those passiflora-pink or do they come up from seed at the base of the other catalpas?

Yesterday I had the chance to see a small smoke tree, cotinus coggyria, with the dark leaves and light on the underside. Round leaves. Overall I was really impressed and now thinking this very well might be the tree I will try. It is supposed to stay quite small. If you saw my space for this tree you would understand why I want something pretty small.

I was visiting an older monk up at a Benedictine monastery who loves trees, shrubs, plants. I had picked up some cornus nutalli earlier in the season for him at a nursery. Now he is offering me a franklinia tree. I am just going to have to find a place for this. He suggested somewhere semishady and plenty of water the first year. Has this been your experience with franklinia, passifloria_pink?

Catalpa does produce seeds. There is a current posting on "trees and shrubs" on Catalpa you may want to review. Mine are too small but I may be able to get some when the trees I photographed produce seedpods. They are at the entrance to a housing development. I don't think anyone would mind.

Franklinia is hard to grow. In fact, mine died. It needs acid soil...There are other good posts from people knowledgable about Franklinia you ought to read using the "search" feature on DG. I would like to get another and would jump at the chance if someone offered me one.

You'll need to train the Purple Smoke to look like the one I sent as they have multi trunks unless you prune it. But it is indeed a beautiful tree that stays "in bounds" size-wise. Here is a pic of my young goldenchain which I really don't recommend because I have had to spray it due to insect problems:

I have a Grafted Dwarf Korean Lilac Syringa meyeri “Palabin Standard,” right in the middle of my front flower bed. I love it, but I don't know if lilacs will do well in your zone?

Passiflora_pink, thanks for all the great information. I see a lot of golden chain here and you know we just don't have the bug problems like the south and midwest. We don't even have mosquitoes too bad. I was thinking of you yesterday as I walked through my garden saw my big ceanothus shrubs in full blue bloom. They are gorgeous and very fast growers. Do you have this in your garden?

Joan, yes lilac do do well here in the Pacific Northwest. In fact I have korean lilacs too. I discovered they root very well and quite easily even but they don't like to be moved around a lot, I also discovered.Thanks for the tip. You know I think I like syringa vulgaris varieties better than the Koreans.

I don't have ceanothus. I do have a lilac which I put in this year and has never bloomed. Has never bloomed; the story of most of my young trees. But someday I shall have a beautiful arboretum!

You would really love ceanothus because they stay evergreen and their bloom is a true blue. I like your idea of an arboretum. How much ground do you have to play with?

Though none of the have big pretty flowers they fit you space and seem troubleless to grow. Weeping Birch, Weeping Alaska Cedar, Weeping Pussy Willow. I have these in my yard and enjoy them all.

A different note today I bought 6 nice 10 foot flowering cherry trees for 57 bucks maybe some of you have home depot stores near you. Ernie

just came back and if you're up to some training, just about any bush can be trained into standard form.

Sambucus - That could result in a small tree. Check out Sutherland's Gold. A dissected yellow leaf that always stops people walking around my yard. I forgot about a pruning I stuck in the mud in a front bed that then got hidden but all the perennials. It rooted and I have a new one growing there. As a bush it'd hog all the space but I'm going to train it into a small tree. Get the main trunk up about 4' then buckhorn it every spring.

I've turned Hansen and Nanking cherry bushes into 6' trees, each with 2 or 3 trunks.
The Honeysuckle bush is vigorous and requires too much pruning next to a house. I fought with them for several years and was shearing but I'd lose all the blooms and there'd only be a shell of foliage around the outside. The last one I moved out to a far corner. Let it grow all it wanted one season then cut it back to 3' and removed all but 4 trunks. The next 2 seasons I let it grow again then cut it off about 5' high. The following season I removed all but 3 branches on each of the trunks. and it now maintains a canopy about 9 or 10' tall. I just have to rub off new sprouts and take suckers off at the bottom now and then. I'll grab a couple of pictures later.

8ftbed, there are definitely some sambucuses (sambuci; plural, lol) that I have some great appeal. I especially like the ones with bright red berries.

Ernie, I am not really all the crazy about weeping trees. I prefer the contorted shapes over the weeping like the crazy willow or contorted filbert(hazelnut). Good ideas all though, thanks.

:) Joann

Here's a picture of my Korean Lilac tree today. It's blooming late this year, but we can smell it all over the front yard. This tree has only been in this place for 2 years, and it's doing great.

Just thought I'd throw this in here in case you haven't made a decision yet. :)

That is really very pretty, JoanJ, your whole landscape look of the prairie is so different than I what I am accustomed to. The wide open space where you can see a long ways. We are so wooded here; it is hard to see too far. I was born in the midwest and I remember my mom saying she kind of missed the wide open spaces; you get kind of a closed in feeling more here. Just all depends what you get used to , huh?

Oh, what I wouldn't give for a little more closed in feeling. LOL I don't mind the openness, but I don't like seeing every car that drives by, and I don't like them seeing me working outside. I'd like a little more privacy, and a lot more shade.

We have friends way up north in North Dakota, I would so love to take the time to see them. But we harvest late into September sometimes; so we know the weather can turn cold and snowy sooner than later there. They are a little town called Bathgate; not far from the border.

Oh, if you ever come up this way, let me know. I live in the SW corner of the state, but I'm willing to travel somewhere to meet you for lunch or something.

Yep, my mid September, it can turn cold. Usually don't get snow until later though. The last couple years we haven't had much snow at all. This May we had more snowfall than all the rest of the winter.

You just never know.

If we came to North Dakota, I tell my hubby I want to see the Badlands and Mt. Rushmore. I haven't traveled very extensively at all and hubby won't fly anymore. When you are tied to the land on a farm things are just a little more complicated.

From what I can determine, Ceanothus wouldn't grow in my zone...I've never seen it--but it looks beautiful!

Have you ever heard of a strawberry tree? I am thinking about planting one next. A DG member posted pics of his and raintree nursery has them. The catalog says it grows 6-8 ft as a shrub or slowly to 15 ft tree. Zones 7-11.

I saw a smoke tree today with green leaves and purple smoke, it was so pretty. I think that is definitely going to be my choice. Though I wish I could plant all kinds of different stuff. If I expand my space to down by the pond, mmmm, that is a thought, I could try all kinds of other stuff. Joann

Hi,

Lots of good suggestions - I have and like a number of them including pink cornus kousa, stewartia pseudocamellia, smokebush and heptacodium - see my photos for some of these. I will add another to the mix - Crataegus viridus 'Winter King' or 'Winter King' Hawthorn. It satisfies and exceeds your criteria. I've had mine for five years and is one of my favorites. It provides true multi-season interest. Flowers in Spring, nice foliage for Summer, decent Fall color and the highlight - it's full of bright red berries which last from Fall into Spring as the birds don't seem too keen on them. As it ages it's pretty light gray bark begins to exfoliate. To boot, it has a great shape which makes it ideal for smaller area - reminds me of a martini glass. If you can site it where there is a dark background such as from large evergreens, the berries will jump out at you all winter long. I have posted a few photos of mine. Hope this helps. Good luck.

Victor

Great suggestions, Victor, I do especially like your Hawthorn suggestion. Where are your pictures? I would love to see a photo of the Crataegus. From its name it sounds as though the blooms might be white?

I have almost settled on a Cotinus coggygria(smoke tree) but now that I am looking around I am seeing all kinds of smoke trees. Dark foliage and dark inflorensces (sp) and green with pink inflorenses. I saw one today while out and about that was green with a dark edge to the foliage and pink blooms. It was just stunning.

I would love to still find a place for some of these other trees like your Crataegus suggestion. Goldenrain and golden chain as passiflora suggested.