Hello, I'm very glad to have found this forum. We have a temporary gardening challenge — we need to grow a fairly tall screen, and fast! It doesn't necessarily need to be dense...I'll try to explain:
Our property sits above what is normally an open field (baseball) for a high school. They are rebuilding the school & have brought in portables on the field for the transition. In anticipation of this, last September I planted clumping bamboo at the very bottom of our hill (~12' below the grade of our house). I hoped this would be sufficient to provide privacy during the 2+ years the temporary campus will exist. However, 1.) I didn't anticipate bright glaring roofs of the portables in the morning sun, and 2.) the bamboo have not grown enough.
To clarify, there are two problems we're trying to counter: the glare of the roofs, and privacy (there will be 1400 teenagers virtually in our backyard during school hours beginning in the fall). It seems there are two options:
a) an approximate 18' tall (X 25' wide) screen at the bottom of the hill, in the form of an extremely vigorous vine, or
b) multiple upright plantings on the hill of perrenials, shrubs, annuals (?) with heights varying from 10' - 16', depending on how far up they are planted (the further down the better because space is a concern...we don't want to box ourselves in).
My question is, what perennials will grow up to 16' in ONE season? I live in the San Francisco Bay Area -- nearly anything will grow here. There is no freezing in winter, and very mild summers.
I realize I'm asking a lot because the time period is but a few months (school starts in September) and I don't expect perfection, but I know the right plants are out there, if I can just figure out which ones! I am willing to water and feed religiously. The hill is full sun...deer are a concern...otherwise anything goes...temporary or permanent...
Thank you SO much for your time and wisdom!
Melanie
need ideas: fast-growing, tall plants
Bamboo didn't grow fast enough? You're in trouble! How about some kind of frame with morning glories on it? They aren't perennial but I swear I can see them grow here in MI. Honeysuckle and wisteria grow fast too.
The only thing I can think of that grows faster than bamboo is corn!
Yeah, morning glories would probably do the trick. I used them on a trellis to provide a privacy screen on the side of my porch. They grow really fast, and you have the gorgeous flowers, too! There are some varieties that get really tall. Thunbergia (black-eyed Susan vine) also gets really tall and thick, but doesn't grow as fast as the morning glory. My "screen" was 8-10 feet tall within three months.
They also reseed, and if I remember right last a long, long time!
Would Silver Lace Vine help this person?
Butterfly bushes, joe pye weed,
Giant sunflower
For your zone the Banana Canna comes to mind. The catalogs say it reaches 10' or more and is grown for its tropical, banana-like leaves, and reaches that height in a temperate growing season. By the beginning of the school year you could have those babies in their prime! There is also a variety of dahlia that is said to reach 15' and is also grown for its jurasic foliage as well (they say it rarely blooms, and the blooms are insignificant). I've seen both of those offered at Plant Delights, but they're pricy. I think Brent and Becky's offers the banana canna at a better price. Some Castor beans may work well to.
Lion's tail, Hibiscus Cannibinus, bananas, I'll tell you more when I think of them.
Even with really good soil -- and you haven't mentioned anything about the quality of your soil, if the bamboo did not grow fast enough that might be telling you something there -- there is very little that is going to grow 16' in a single season, even in our wonderful Bay Area climate. The reason? You need a good root system to support that kind of growth, and most plants concentrate on roots first, growth second.
If I were you, I would bite the bullet and establish a temporary planting nearer the house. There's a big difference between asking a vine to reach 8-10' in its first year, rather than 15'+. You also may not get very thick coverage at the top ends, so if glare is a problem for you, even fast growing plants may not help much.
I would also help things along by building a temporary screen of latticework trellises. If you space them out slightly (such as pairing them, leaving a 2' gap, then another pair, and so on) you could probably avoid having somebody call the building inspectors on you (which is why you don't want it to look like a solid fence of any type). Even with posts sunk in the ground -- or you could use those new, expensive-but-easy-to-move steel groundstake post supports -- it would be a fast fix, relatively easy to remove later.
Regardless of what you do, good luck in finding a suitable solution!
Thank you, everyone, for your replies! From what I've heard from local gardeners, my bamboo are probably hard at work spreading out underground, and in about 2 years, they will be huge, the top growth more apparent then.
Kachinagirl — I thought of the corn too and already looked at the seeds...the ones we have out here only get to about 6' tall... are there other varieties that grow taller?
sylvi74, Zarabeth, pirl — Thank you for your suggestions! I posted on the vines and climbers board here too and we have been brainstorming, but I am running out of ideas of how to provide a support for a vine. It's kind of a sticky situation..part of the area is on a city easement...I won't bore you with the details... bit if I do grow a vine it will probably be either Morning Glory or Silver Lace...which, pirl, incidentally, was what my sister-in-law first suggested to me. I actually looked for it at the nursery...they didn't have it, but I assume I could buy some somewhere.
CaptMicha — Wow! You have lots of ideas, none of which I have considered. I am going to go look them all up. I've never even heard of joe pye weed, lol. Bananas...that would be fun...Thank you!
LuLuLocks — do you know what the average height of those giant sunflower is? Those might be good for mid-hill...
gemini sage — I actually purchased some castor bean seeds...apparently it is illegal to sell the plant because of their toxicity...got them home, talked it over with family, and we got to thinking what if some unsuspecting deer, or (yikes) our cat ate one of the seeds and cacked...so I've decided not to use them...too bad because they would have been perfect! I think they may have the Banana Canna at our local nursery. The dahlia, I'm not familiar with, but that sounds really promising, and interesting to look at as well.
Wow, folks. I didn't expect such vigorous repsonse. I can't thank you enough. Today I will spend building a temporary barrier around new plantings in my main yard — my son is hosting an 18th birthday party. I hope there are no plant casualties!
Best,
Melanie
jkom51,
hi there, neighbor! sorry, I didn't see your post...I had checked the board last night and prepared my reply before signing on today.
I'm no expert, in fact I don't no what I'm doing at all, but I'd guess my soil is moderately good. I usually don't amend it very much and things grow really well nonetheless. For instance, I transplanted a bouganvilla that was going to be tossed when they ran a gas line...we dragged it down to the botttom of the hill, dug a hole, no soil amendment whatever, I hardly ever water it, and it is huge and thriving! I figure luck only goes so far, so the soil must be okay.
The problem with a planting near the house is that there is only about five feet between our master bedroom window and the point where the hill begins. This is where the 10' plants would do the trick. If we plant there, we will be very boxed in, and we may as well just shut the curtains on all the windows of the west walls of the house (thereby also shutting off the glorious sunsets and golden gate bridge views...whine whine).
I think we're abandaning the vine idea in favor of individual plantings, but it is sound advice you give about avoiding making it look like a solid fence should we do so (actually you were referring to latticework). I'm not familiar with those post supports you speak of...this is all new to me...maybe I should look into that..."fast fix & easy to remove" sounds very tempting. If you don't mind indulging me once more, do you know the name of those steel post supports?
You've got me to thinking, maybe I need to hire a landscaper to come over to brainstorm with...I wonder if they will hire out by the hour, i.e. if they will come over and just think things through with us or if they only come if you're going to hire them to do the work (which we definitely can't afford)...
thanks again, and best to you,
melanie
earsight, sorry it took me so long to get back to you. The steel post stakes were something I had seen in a catalog long since tossed, and I couldn't quite remember the exact name of them closely enough to find it in a web search. But last night another catalog came in and they had the same item, so I'm attaching a link so you can see what I was referring to.
I plan on using these as Target (yes, the big new one near you in Albany) had some beautiful wood trellises on sale a few months ago and I picked four of them up. I need a screening between my neighbor's yard and ours, no fence, just trying to hide someone else's unattractive backyard stuff.
The steel post spike is at: http://sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=264&DID=10
Yes, you absolutely can hire a landscpe designer to come out and give ideas, or a plan for an area, then do the work yourself. I have done this many times, for a section of my lot, to the whole lot master planned. Quite a nice way to go, and so much cheaper, than hiring it out....
Good luck!! Let us know what you decide, and can you post pics?? Might help us give ideas if we could see some of the area?? Just a thought...
Jamie
They have landscaping software, I have no idea if it has plant suggestions or what. We have one but I never used it myself.
If I wanted something to get really big, really fast, I would plant castor beans. It is not rare for them to hit 15' in 2-3 months in my zone. Imagine what they would do for you! Throw down some good dirt, manure if you can and a soaker hose. Watch the school disappear! You have most certainly been given some good ideas above. Maybe you can mix a few of them to come up with something huge, flowering and great for privacy. :)
Chele', I agreed with you about the castor beans, yours have done so well down here.
But concern was mentioned above, the issue of the toxicity of the castor bean to deer, cats etc. Now, is that just the bean itself or would those type of critters be inclined to eat the leaves etc.?
Earsight, I have one growin in my backyard, I have 2 dogs that live here and at least one possum that visits, and they are all still kickin' and feisty.
Just a thought.
Molly
:^)))
jkom,
Thanks for the link -- I appreciate your going throught the trouble. You're right, those are a bit pricey, but they look like they are very smart product.
Wow, I wish I had caught the trellis sale at Target...really could have used a few of those. I bought a cheaply built one at OSH and it was $20. We attached it to the chain link for the "miracle" bouganvilla and added a good four feet of privacy there...so now there's a total of ten feet in that spot...that was an interesting experiment which worked out better than expected. That bouganvilla is so funny, all it wants is a little water. After we messed with it, I gave it a really good soaking -- went out there yesterday to check on it and many of it's branches already grew another foot despite all the rearranging.
Thanks again, and best of luck creating your screening!
earsight, if you decide on caster bean plants, let me know, I have a ton of seed that I would be happy to share. We have animals, dogs and cats, and all kind of wildlife here, and nothing bothers these plants. The beans form on the upper portion of the plant, and animals normally can't get to them.
defoecat, it is very kind of you to offer to share your seed, but I haven't returned the castor beans yet so I have a half dozen or so. So you don't think I need to be concerned about poisoning our cat? (or someone else's?, man that would surely upset the neighbors..) The warning on the seed pack says "don't plant in the vicinity of very small kids and pets". How small is "very small", lol? None of the immediate neighbors have small kids, but who knows ten years from now? I think what spooked me the most was the guy at the nursury, who looked at me like I was evil when I was buying this seed, and said something like, "Are you sure you want to do this? You know they make ricin out of this..."
I said all that so you'll come back and reassure me one more time...it really sounds like you are having no trouble killing off people or animals, he he. Seriously, I looked at the pictures of this plant and I think it is really pretty, and it's the perfect height, and so fast....
Thank you so much for your time,
Melanie
Chele',
You have small children and pets, tell Melanie she's fine. Your kids are all still alive...........right?
Molly
:^)))
I just counted. All six of my kids are healthy and accounted for (and I think I am doing a bad thing by saying so! LOL). We also have two dogs and a cat. My gardens are visited by deer, opossum, racoons, frogs, lizards, birds, etc. No corpse anywhere to be found, not in the ten years or so I have grown them. :)
My sunflowers get about 12'....Love'em
Wow, Hi guys & gals! I had to take a garden break for a couple days. Boo. Deposition on Tuesday, then drove to Santa Cruz yesterday, spending the day with my daughter touring the University -- both kids are getting ready to apply to colleges. (Yikes, how did that happen) Then today got the kid off on a school camping trip...
Anyhoo, somehow I managed to miss some very informative posts earlier up the thread from Jamie, CaptMicha, Molly, and Badseed -- love that name : ). I have no idea how I missed your posts! Thank you for your advice!
Sadly, I cannot post pics because I don't have a digital camera. I am begging for one for Christmas, and if no one comes through, I may just have to go out and get one for myself! It has occurred to me many times how helpful it would be if I could show you guys in pictures exactly what I'm talking about. I've actually taken lots of polaroids for myself and drawn all over them with sharpies as I've played around with ideas...yeah I know, that's really lame, lol.
Badseed, Molly, all of you, first of all, you are so fun! Second, you convinced me. Those babies are goin' in the ground. Got the castor beans soakin' in the water already -- in fact, in only several hours, there seem to be little sprouts coming out of their tails or whatever you call that!
What do you folks think about mixing the castors up with pacific waxmurtle, and/or tree dahlia? I know the tree dahlia tends to need support, so I had somewhat abandoned that idea, but Badseed's suggestion about the mix with flowers got me to thinking, that would be nice...
Does anyone have an answer to Molly's question regarding is it just the seeds that are toxic? Reason I ask is not just for the critters, it's for me! I'll need to walk and work amongst it, so I'm wondering if the foliage is allergy provoking or irritating? I'm not particularly sensitive in general. Have never "gotten" poison ivy/oak.
Now, please forgive me, I still need help. About getting those seeds off to a good start in the ground. I read the instructions on the seed pack, and they advise going straight outside. Unfortunately, they don't give any detail. Do I place them just under the soil, an inch under, with the tail sticking up, down, etc..? Keep them moist at all times? (All it says is "easy to grow from seed"...arrgh). Most of them are going right on bare soil in full sun, but I'm also wondering if I can plant a few of them right in with my creeping rosemary or will I have to cut it all the way to the ground. I'm sure you can tell I'm a seed rookie. I did successfully grow sunflower a few years back though.
speaking of which, LuLuLocks, I'm going to put in a row of sunflower at the top of the hill for good measure. I'm thinking the Mexican (orange) variety if I can find it. Do you know which type of sunflower you are growing?
Once I'm done planting everything (and I can breathe again) I will figure out a way to borrow a digital camera or somehow get some pictures up here. Maybe it will help someone else about to be invaded by 1400 teenagers and evil metal roofs, lol. Actually, I bet this sort of thing happens to people more often than one would think.
Thank you sooooo much for hanging in here with me, folks!!
Melanie
Melanie,
The comments in the PlantFiles all state that all parts of the plant are poisonous, if ingested.
My Castor Bean Tree is by my pond and I am constantly arranging and rearranging pots around both. Never had a skin reaction from the tree.
Molly
:^)))
Life is never simple, is it Melanie? Perhaps you were sent this crazy metal roofed-teens in order to expand your gardening knowledge, quickly! Well, my sunflowers (this year), are the good, ol'fashioned Mammoth Sunflowers from Burpee (hee hee) 12 feet tall, germinates in 7 days, harvest in 80 days. I bet they would be a decent sound insulator, nice and top heavy, big fuzzy leaves. I have staggered them through a bed about 3 feet wide, and couldn't see through to the other side very well, other than towards the bottom a bit at the base of the stalk. So, you could throw a 3-4 foot something in front of that (cutting variety sunflower? very impressive look....) Also, I use them in leiu of poles for my cucumbers. Just train the cukes as soon as the sunflower can take a little weight, and the pole grows with the vine. I too have gotten some super suggestions from this thread. MT!!
-=Lu
Ah, thank you Molly. That is good to know. I have no plans to eat any of the castor ; ) but I am a real clutz and I can just see myself winding around back there...no doubt I will be constantly brushing against the foliage. I'm going to start putting them in the ground in a couple hours! I'm excited! I found a thread last night called "Castor Bean contest", started by someone named rootdoctor and it was hysterical! I was laughing so hard, and the pictures were amazing. I'm going to try to link: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/390294/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=592686
LOL, LuLuLocks! Metal-roofed teens! Wait til I tell my husband! You just made my day. Seriously though, there is truth to what you say. I know the botanical names of at least several dozen plants now, whereas several weeks ago I knew a handful. I AM learning quickly. I've always loved gardening, but I've never really learned much about taxonomy, soil requirements, deer resistence, etc. until now. Oh, and rate of growth, he he! Great ideas about the sunflowers. I'm going to go get some right now. I needed to go to the nursery anyway.
Thanks you guys!
Melanie
This has spawned so much great brain storming! Sounds like it's developing into a colorful, multi-textured living fence. At my previous residence I had a sunny, open area where I needed an immediate fence. I used a combination of many of the above plants, including castor bean. The kids used the big leaves for umbrellas. We had them wash their hands afterwords, but no problems. I used clumps of castor bean, sunflowers, tall cannas, elephant ear, glads, dahlias, zinnias, cosmos, etc. and it was really fun and effective. Even our not so smart chickens new to avoid the fallen castor seeds.
gemini -- Wow, it sounds like your screen was very much like what I'm trying to do here! Do you recall what type of dahlias you used? Were they tree dahlia? I was thinking of using some of those, but was afraid the deer might eat them quicker than I could plant them, lol. Ordered my canna yesterday! Cosmos...not sure what that is. Zinnias...will have to check that out...
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I planted a brugmansia yesterday. I went down to the nursery to get some fir mulch, and saw it with it's big leaves and it just had "I grow fast" written all over it. Sure enough, goes to 15' and is deer resistant. Unlike everything else I'm planting is not drought tolerant, however, there is a spot for it near the top, where it will receive water from the lawn which is on automatic sprinkler system.
I forgot to post here that I planted all the castors, there were nine in all, two days ago. I soaked them in water for 24 hours first. I hope they take! After all is in the ground I am going to figure out a way to get some pictures on this forum. It will probably be about a month from now, but I hope it might help someone else down the line. You folks are great!! This is so much fun!
Ears,
I've been out working in the garden and taking pictures. I wanted to share my big Castor bean with you and show you the little surprise on the ground beneath the tree. That's a 4 ft ladder there by the tree. I keep it there for climbing to pluck the seeds off.
Here's what growing under the tree. I have been trying to catch those seeds before the fall off the cluster, but looks like I missed one. It's the curled red stem. My best guess on germination time is : "Pretty quick"
Molly
:^))))
Try a Japanese paper plant, non-poisonous. They spread by underground runners and can get really huge. You can get them at Plantdelights.com and they have one called steroidal that gets even bigger than the regular one. It is called Tetrapanax I believe the spelling is. They are easily propagated. Not sure if they are available to be sent to California, though.
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04634.html
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04676.html
They get very dense and reproduce quickly.
LOL, Molly. I'm thinking that ladder isn't going to do me much good considering I planted nine castors. :- o Plus I'd probably fall on my behind, down down down the hill, he he. I think I may have "sort of" found a solution about the falling seeds though. When I planted the brugmansia the other day, I pulled up a considerable amount of creeping rosemary which I had planted back in 1999, when we first moved into this house. Rather than tossing it, I threw it in some water, then a day or two later I placed it in the ground, where it can take advantage of water that I'm giving the castors. Plus, it occured to me, Dusty the cat never wanders into the Rosemary. Nor does any small critter as far as I know. It is very pungent, and grows quite thick. So, if the Rosemary takes as a ground cover in the castor area, that may solve the potential real or imagined problem. Also, I just scheduled the cat's yearly vet visit, so I'll ask him if he's ever heard of cat death due to castor seed poisoning, lol. My teenage kids are more concerned about this than I -- they have given me no end of grief about this. You should see the little individual chicken wire cages I made for the seedlings, yes to keep the silly cat out...good grief Charlie Brown...what a pain in the ***
p.s. Molly -- your castor is so pretty and healthy looking!! Oh, and speaking of that germination, how much water was that guy getting? I'm wondering if I'm keeping my seed area too wet...
Windy -- Wow! I've heard of Rice Paper plant but had never seen it til now. On their web site is says the plant was actually introduced from Hawaii to the continental US via the California Bay area. Wonder if I might even be able to find it locally. Will have to check about it's water needs. Thank you! I might even be able to put that one at the bottom of the hill (which is ideal!)
Ears,
You won't need a ladder to support your trees since you are planting directly in the ground. As for germinating that seed, we had two weeks of pretty constant rain. It didn't bother that bean at all.
Molly
:^)))
This is strange, it seems that some of my posts have dissapeared.
OKay, I found it in another thread!
I would think that putting up a large fence with chain links or something of that nature and then planting vines every other foot or so would work well.
In Cali, you've got a lot of choices and you don't even have to resort to invasives. Passionflowers, sky blue vine, morning glories, pea family vines, lotus vine, um.... why is it when you need ideas the names suddenly leave your head? Dutchman's pipes, Stephanotis Vine, coral vine, cup of gold, honey suckles, roses, jasmine, etc.
Vines grow pretty fast and to get them to cover nicely, train them to grow in a "S". You should have a fence COVERED with vines in no time. And it would smell and look soooo good. Prices are an issue but you could do it in installments.
Capt -- We have a couple problems with the fence idea, the first being we may get tied up for a very long time with city planning getting approved...anything over six feet will not fly, and that applies only to the portion that is on our property outright. The larger problem is that portions of the hill are on city easements. So long as nothing we do is considered "permanent" we can hope that no one will mess with us, especially considering that the immediate neighbors appreciate what we are doing (and school officials are aware of what we are doing as well). We thought about this quite a bit, and even thought about driving 20 foot poles into the ground, figuring a way to wire some vine support between the posts, and then keeping space enough between sections so there would be no fire hazard, but still it kept remained far too complicated, and expensive. I wish I could post photos...it would make it so much easier to explain to you guys. At any rate, we finally gave up on the vine idea, which was initially my first choice.
Most sincere thanks for your input :))
melanie
The castors are sprouting, the castors are sprouting!! They are so funny! Giant mutant seedlings! They are going to eat me! ha!
Planted canna musafolia night before last...made a dam (literally, I had a little irrigation problem) with the dirt I removed for that hole, lol. I swear the stem of the canna grew an inch by the next morning, which was only six hours later (don't even ask, lol).
Just took a bunch of photos with my 35mm. I think I may have thought of a way to get photos on the forum, but it will take a few weeks...
That darn brug needs too much water, or I may have done something wrong when I planted it, or put it in a bad place, or need to modify something, arrgh, hopefully I'll figure it out.
Oh, and it appears the sunflowers are sprouting too, or are those weeds? ; )
Best,
mel
You could buy some of those water crystals. They're kinda pricey, I'm thinking of buying them to use on my more tender, expensive plants.
You dip the plant's roots or line the hole with them, water and they expand with moisture. They keep the roots wet a lot longer.
How exciting! Can't wait to see those pics. Is'nt it fun watching those fast growing things do their thing! You'll have a jungle by the time school is back in session.