Monika's book regarding soil

Monika, Kell, Brugie??? Monika if you are on, or someone else answer my question? I am getting ready to plant my Brugs like Monika says in her book. With the summer pots. On page 32 of the translation she talks about soil. It sounds to me, and I sure could be reading this wrong, that she is saying they need soil with clay in it. . On the bottom of the last paragraph she says:

Quality substratum cost a little bit more but the plants reward it with a healthy growth and many blossoms.

Would really appreciate your translation Monika. Thanks, Jeanette

This message was edited May 18, 2005 10:15 AM

Jnette, the soil, I am mentioning in my book is used in many nurseries all over Europe. In 1983, a old nursery man recommended it to me and I since then, I plant my brugs in this special soil. It contains parts of three layered volcanic clay. I am sure, that similar soil is available in the US.

You should not use garden soil in a pot.


This message was edited May 18, 2005 9:33 PM

Thanks Monika, I will look on the internet. I do not remember any of the companies that sell potting soil mentioning volcanic clay in their mixes. Maybe if they don't know of any either that Brugie, Kell, or Scooter will tell me what they use.

Jeanette

Jeannette, I'm in an area of the US that isn't highly populated and have to use what is available. I'm using ProMix and I like it a lot. I used to use Ball Mix and it was also good. I can't say that I've researched potting soils...I just use what is available to me. Another good soil is FaFard.

Thanks Shirley, I use ProMix also but that is a long way from clay. I know that some companies advertising volcanic ash. But living so close to Mt. St. Helens I know that the ash that came from that mountain was a granular. Now Monika you say a three layered volcanic clay. I wonder if those volcanoes are layered (stratified) so there are different consistencies in different layers. Now am I getting goofy?

Wonder if there aren't any scientific brug lovers out there that know anything about what I am saying.

Guess I will try the internet. I haven't had a chance. Jeanette

Jnette, this is a link, which has information about the soil I use. It may help you to find something similar.

http://www.archut.de/hawita-englisch/info_archiv.php?menuid=191

Very interesting. There are all kinds of volcanic clay. All colors. Now, I remember my mom's lawn had a cover that was kind of like clay. It reminded me of a scalp with tufts of hair. The water would not soak down in. It ran off. That was with the St. Helen's ash.

We took pitch forks and poked holes in it so water would run down and get water to the grass. That must be what you, Monika, are planting your Angels in. Mixed in with soil.

Wonder why that would be beneficial to the plants. Glass blowers are making eggs and things out of the St. Helen's ash. Probably another layer that is the granular like I saw.

Guess I will have to stick with my Promix like Shirley is. Actually it is pretty good.

Jeanette

Thanks Monika. I doubt very much if I will find anything like that . Maybe I will continue looking for it on the net. Thanks again. Jeanette

I dunno, Jnette. Volcanic ask is thick ...but it mixes well with other mediums...I can't see where it would be bad at all! We all use Volcanic cinders which are simply larger forms of the ash. I think it would be rich in Potash...

Carol

Well, I don't think I thought it was bad. I just was not sure what it was. I think there probably are different layers like I said. Monika said "three layered volcanic clay". I said, "where could I get some." At least that is what I meant.
Her plants are gorgeous.

Jeanette

Okay, after studying the site that Monika refered to, I believe I may have figured some things out. It could be that our definitions of potting soil could be different.
The term Lava clay in the U.S. is actually perlite. I went to quite a few sites checking on the volcanic clay, and most of it is defined as perlite, a lite expanding volcanic material. Go figure, I never new that. I compared Monikas site with http://www.gardenscapeinc.com/products/soils.htm -- and the compositions were quite similar. I could be wrong, but this is what it seems to me. The composition of humus, sphagnum, peat moss, lime stone (buffering clay). I think a big difference might be the use of hydroponic material in the mix. I must admit one thing kept leading to another, and I actually learned alot!
Let me know if anyone else came to another conclusion!
Happy potting!
Rj

So RJ what you came up with is Promix, or some like it, that Shirley (Brugie) and I use. Which must be close to the same thing as what Monika uses.

That took a lot of research because I was going in the wrong direction. I was looking under Volcanic clay and didn't find that. Maybe my eyes were crossed. LOL, thanks. Jeanette

Nice sleuthing Rj.
Makes perfect sense now. I've found myself out in left field several times when going with literal translations from all the countries I visited while in the Navy and life with my DW from the Philippines. It's been comical at times to say the least.

Blaine, glad I'm not the only screwup. Could maybe be embarrassing to say the least. Guess you probably have a good sense of humor.

Jeanette

The volcanic clay is something different. It is not Perlite. It looks almost like the material we used for knead when I was a kid.

Well, isn't that something!! That's what I originally thought. Wonder why that is something the plants do so well on. There has to be something in it? Or is it the consistency they like?

Maybe I will go get some PlayDoe. LOL

Jeanette

I will try to find out from some of the master gardeners around here what is similar to this volcanic clay.
It sounds like it is very thick. The most equivelant mixture I could find was the clay the gardeners use with the miniature japanese trees (the term escapes me).
Rj

Rj, you mean they use a special mixture for the Bonsai's????? I didn't know that , but it probably makes sense. How else would the plants live in those little containers.? jeanette

Did someone say volcanic ash is good for the soil for brugs? I still see some of it along the highways, since that 1980 Mount St. Helens Blow. Just might have to go scoop some up!

No, no, Karrie, read the whole thread. Don't think that is what you want. Jeanette

ok, lol! I've been just skimming over some threads. I have heard that volcanic ash IS good for crops, though. After MSH blew, they expected things to get fairly lush.

Think that's from all this darn rain. Jeanette

No, no - they said that when it first blew. And Russ told me the topsoil from the Palouse has layers of volcanic ash - has alot of minerals and holds water well - thus great Wheat crops there. Some of the best soil you can get.

The topsoil on the NE coast of the island (where they grew sugarcane) is basically Volcanic Ash and it is very much like Clay. In the SE part of the island it is also ASH but it is light and fluffy.

I am growing my brugs in volcanic cinder with organic matter like chunky peat and coir chips added when planted. We have SO much rain...I need the good drainage. When we get dry spells, I mulch the top.

Volcanic emissions can vary so much....from sheet lava to crumbled lava to..... No such thing as "volcanic soil"....

So glad you cleared that up for us Carol. Thanks, Jeanette

I'm fairly new to growing Brugmansias, but have been gardening in containers for decades. The website Monika provided states that the volcanic clay is used to control soil moisture. The particles of volcanic clay must be shaped in such a way that they trap water between the particles or else they have holes to hold the water. Ordinary clay particles are very small and flat which accounts for the large amount of expansion and contraction it can undergo. If it is used to regulate water, wouldn't gel crystals work as well?

Bettydee, I am going to leave that to Monika to answer. You've got me there. Jeanette

Ahhh...yes...Jnette... Bonsai..that was what I was thinking of. When I was searching for the volcanic clay, the Bonsai came up, and apparently there is a special mixture of volcanic clay. That was as close as I could come with.
Re Bettydee, the volcanic clay besides the water regulation is suppose to provide nutrients and minerals etc for the plant,. I believe many of the brugmansia species also originiate in volcanic regions of central and south America (but not limited to).

The closest I could come to with the Volcanic clay is at this site
http://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/akadama.html
I found this site to have the most comprehensive descriptions about the soil break downs. I believe what may end up doing is asking my local nursery for some of this Bonsai soil, and give it whirl.

And the price? I'm game if it's free!

rj, I think this would cost a small fortune using enough for a Brug if it is normally used for Bonsais. Let me know what you find out. Jeanette

The volcancic clay in the soil I use, has three layers instead of two.
It traps and stores water + nourishments much better than two layered clay.
The german word for this kind of clay is: dreilagig (three layered) Vulkan (volcan) Ton. We differ between Lehm (clay, loam) and Ton (clay, kaolin). I dont know the correct english description.

Monika, is the English description: zeolite? It's a natural volcanic mineral that has lots of channels capable of trapping water and other materials. Here's a website I found that has information on agricultural uses of zeolite.

http://www.greentg.com/

Bettydee, I am not sure. I am going to phone the company on Monday to ask, if Zeolite is another name for Vulkanton. I let you know.

Yes your right it would cost a small fortune.. Unfortuneatly anything else I studied, came up with descriptions. Like the one Bettydee listed. I'm headed to my neighborhood nursery tomorrow and will be asking them. I will bring them a copy of the site Monika showed us.
My thoughts were however, to mix some of the Bonsai material in with the existing potting material as an experiment. But as Monika says, it isn't the same. I'll keep looking in the meantime.
Rj

This message was edited Jun 10, 2005 6:11 PM

Here is something interesting. http://www.supersorb.com.au/riversafe.html
http://www.healthy-ways.com/soil.html

I was searching under mineral clay...*sigh*
rj

Interesting, indeed, rj. Zeolite sounds great! So does everything else!!

Carol

With all of us researching this how can we go wrong??? LOL

The Zeolite sounds interesting but there again, it doesn't look like it is anything we can purchase here in the states.

I wonder how it is different from the minerals I bought at the hydroponic store. This stuff certainly looks like clay. You stir it for 10 minutes after you put it in the water and then let it sit for a half an hour. Pour off the product and water your plants with it and throw the sediments in the bottom of the pot away. If you just mixed a small amount of water with it you would have a clay consistency. I only used it once and I really do think it helped the plants.

I bought that new fertilizer they advertise and because it said it was 100% mineral based I quit using the other that I got from the HS.

Just thought of something. The sediments looked like the granular ash I got from St. Helens. Now I am grasping at straws.

Jeanette

Zeolite is used for many applications here in the US. The thing to be weary of is zeolite if processed incorrectly, may have asbestos. I picked up this bit of information earlier today. Here are 2 links to possible sources of agricultural zeolite.
Veronica

http://www.greentg.com/
http://www.zeoponix.com/distributors.htm

DH told me that Zeolite is used in Water Softeners: it binds up the minerals so they aren't as present in the water....sounds interesting.

Ya know...I just have a feeling that with all the neato wonderful "thingys" for our plants, we could kill them with kindness. Back to the basics....no?

Well Carol, you should see my shelves of doctoring and feeding concoctions for my plants. You would think I am competing with Home Depot, Lowes, etc. And, I am sure I am not alone. Gardening is a very expensive hobby.

My plants have finally surpassed my dogs as far as food costs go.

Then theire are my cupboards and refrigerator. Have you heard of Old Mother Hubbard? That's me.

Jeanette