Monarda

I know it can be invasive but I bought another one. Lost the name for the first red one and now bought Raspberry (Delight I think). Does anyone have experience with it? Invasive? Fragrant? Thanks for the help.

I'm curious about this too as I just bought my first Mondarda as well. I'm keeping an eye on it since it is in the same family as mint.

Oh my...I don't let them in my main beds and borders, but if it is a place where you can let it go, or are diligent about dividing it YEARLY!!, then they are so pretty in bloom - and the fragrance is nice! I am sure others have more patience than I for all the work they take. This is a piece that I must have forgotten to pick up last fall...not even planted, just left on top of the soil....gotta go dig it up or it will eat the poor rose....

Is this plant really invasive? I just got 4 plants (pinks and red) and put them in different places.
So they take over? Are their roots deep? I like the flowers and wanted some butterflies to come to my yard, but... If these guys take over, I am not so sure. I don't have that large of a yard for them then.
Let me know please!
Carol

I planted it in my vegi garden, but put it on the edge so I could easily get to it. It will be lucky if it doesn't get swarmed by scarlet runner beans in a couple of months.

I planted some in one of my gardens that was inside a brick wall, but it didn't do well (mildew, no blooms, too leggy - evidently not enough sun) so I decided to pull it. When I went to plant other stuff in there there were runners and roots EVERYWHERE from just one plant. I am amazed I actually got it all, but I had to dig up and pretty much sift through the entire top foot of soil!

I have heard that bees and butterflies love them, but I will never plant them in loose dirt again. Sunken pots are the only way to contain it!

I have mine in full sun with Rudbeckia maxima behind it so those two can fight for space.

So this spreads thru roots reaching all over the place? If I contain the root spread, I'm good to go?

Daisy~

I don't know about invasive, but these plants are VERY vigorous!! I have a 125X10+ foot perennial border that I won't let this plant anywhere near because that isn't enough room! The roots and underground runners are terribly effective at spreading! It takes a diligent eye, and shovel, to keep these guys in check. Container planting would be good ;o)..... Just keep an eye on it....it can be controlled, just know it does spread, a LOT!! :

This message was edited May 12, 2005 9:41 PM

Thanks for your comments, all of you.
I think I will go dig them up and try to contain them, either pots or some place that it doesn't matter. Geez, I didn't know it could go wild!
Learn something new everyday, I guess.
Carol

How large of a container would you suggest? I'm having second thoughts about allowing it to reside in my vegi garden.

I planted white beebalm in with some new daylilies last year. It spread 6' from its orginal spot this year. I have since moved it out.

I love monarda enough to contend with it's spreading nature. I think a container with at least a 12" diameter would work fine, and I would leave the top inch of the rim above the soil surface since the stolons creep on the surface. Any stems that fall over and lay on the ground will also take root at the leaf nodes. I grow them in areas where I have'nt amended the soil yet and that keeps them in check somewhat. They bring such nice color to the garden for a long time in summer and the form is a great contrast for so many other perennials.

Emily - thanks for mentioning the "mint" feature. Now I know why I should have left it for someone else but they do smell so good.

Jamie - My first one is in a spot surrounded by a cement walk and then the driveway. Ideal location. I'll try to dig something else (like the spreading chives) out and make room for it there.

Emily - talking about letting two plants fight it out - maybe my tiny area surrounded by cement would be ideal for all the plants I love but are invasive could just go and fight it out. Thanks so much. Pamela Harper, in her book Color Echoes mentions something like it.

Hugahosta - Think I might dig it up and line the pot with cement.

Hugeposiepatch - This is just what I was afraid of. Did yours go for a nice ride to the dump?

Gemini - good idea about the rim of the pot. It's a shame we have to be on alert with any plant.

Planting in a pot will not stop Aegopodium or that beautiful/miserable/worse than Kudzu vine Houttaneyia Cordata Chameleon. The last one has gone under the 8" deep base of cement on my brick patio. I love the look of it but it has bad manners running all over. I'm pulling it out (digging up) an area about 150' long and 10' deep. All this from one little pot about 4 years ago!

pirl, I didn't throw mine white beebalm away--I just put it where it can spread all it wants.

I also got a pot of that Chamelon plant this year--is it going to spread alot? Will it kill other plants in its way?

I saw yet another Houttynia yesterday. I don't think I'll ever get rid of it! It came as part of a shade garden mix of perennials I planted at my old house at least 9 years ago. When I moved, I dug some Mertensia to transplant and a piece of the Houttynia must have come along for the ride. Every year, I look for new growth and, every year (6th Spring now) I pull it out.

But I love the Monardas so much for their bird-attracting abilities that I can't bring myself to be rid of them! One thing I discovered with Pycnanthemum (so-called mountain mint) is that surrounding it with heavy landscape fabric and mulch on top provides very little footing for the spreading growth (eeven seedlings) so it's then very easy to pull away the unwanted spread. I just decided this morning to try it with my monardas, too.

This message was edited May 14, 2005 7:41 AM

Sandra (hugeposiepatch)
I'm never sure of the exact spelling of that **** Houttenyiea Chameleon but it doesn't kill other plants - it spreads right through their roots so if you dig a clump to put it elsewhere you bring along the Hout - just as mickgene said.

I dug one little chunk of a hosta to put it elsewhere and last year had to dig out every bit of that soil because it invaded that space.

Pamela Harper, the author of Color Echoes, says the only safe place for it is in cement, surrounded by cement. She is so right. It truly is one of those plants best admired on someone else's property.

If it were me I'd dig it up, Sandra, and repot it but use newspaper (a few layers) to cover the drainage holes and leave the lip of the pot at least an inch out of the ground. The paper will rot in time so change it once a year.

jeez, I planted monarda for the butterflies, but I better get it out of the garden quick! Sounds awful! thanks for all the info. t.

The butterflies do love it, and that's why I keep it. And the hummers, too, especially the gorgeous Jacob Cline.

I better do the right thing and dig it up, put it in a big bucket and then plant it like gemini suggested. Better safe than sorry. Thanks so much Gemini!

How large of a container do these guys need? Would a 5 gallon be large enough?

It better be!

pirl, Thanks for your suggestions but I planted the chamelon plant in with yucca plants. Actually, I hope it spreads.

Please tell me it's in a container - like above the ground. I rue the day I planted mine directly in the garden. The older I get the more I regret it. Must have spent 20 hours in the last week getting rid of barrels of it and still have more to go.

I have about 5 varieties of monarda all planted in the ground. They spread out to a 3 or 4 foot wide clump... and if I divide them every 3 years they stay well behaved. They seem to do them most of their spreading over the winter - in the spring will clean out anything that has over stepped it's bounds.

Poppysue - sorry I was replying to hugeposie patch about Houttayneia.

When I did let Monarda grow in the garden it would get mildew and I couldn't stand it so I'd cut it back and it always looked like a vacancy. I keep trying different areas.

The only trouble I've had with mildew has been with the wild type... Monarda fistulosa. The new varieties seem to be much more resistant... so you might give another type a shot. I've had Marshall's Delight and Violet Queen for prolly close to 10 years without any mildew problems.

Pirl, Have you tried the newer mildew-resistant varieties? I don't have a problem with MArshall's Delight or Jacob Cline getting mildew, although my generic varieties do.
Michele

Thanks Michele, for your reply. Marshall's Delight is the one remaining monarda from years ago. I couldn't think of the name and it's been moved so much that my garden records don't even show it anymore. I only bought the Raspberry Delight because it sounded good: bad reason but I'm easy when it comes to plants. Thanks for the tips - I will write it down this time!

I read the replies in reverse so another thank you to poppysue.

I dug mine up and put it in a 12" plastic container that's sitting on pavement.

I found some beautiful rustic clay containers from Mexico yesterday at a terrific price. The woman goes to Mexico once a month to buy them for her store. They weren't as striking until I potted them up and now they're stunning; the rusticity really sets off the bright colors of the flowers in them. Anyway! Thinking about them with the brights of the monarda, they would be a great way to have your cake and eat it, too.

mickgene: normally I would have sent this to you as a private email but it's too good not to share. It all started with a card in a store with a beautiful buxom blonde on the outside and she said "Hi, my name is Edith". The card showed a big birthday cake on the inside and it said: "Take your choice because you can't have your cake and Edith, too". It cracked me up.

Then, last year I wrote via email, to my friend Lyn, that a neighbor came by with a piece of her birthday cake (Gladys turned 80 but looks and feels like 50) and I was on the computer and had found a plant named Edith at the same time, on a dahlia page. I couldn't decide what to do because I couldn't have my cake and Edith too and she was hysterical.

Earlier this year I found Edith Mueller again (Swan Island Dahlias) and also found Patty Cake (happens to be Glady's daughter - just the Patty, not the Cake) so I bought one of each, planted them downstairs, under lights and gave them to her on Thursday. She had no idea of what plants I had for her. When I turned the little signs around and she saw Edith and Cake she went wild.

Sorry, that I disrupted the flow, but it was too good not to share.

I did buy a huge Mexican pot, on a big wrought iron stand, last year at the half price sale. Marked down to $75. from $150. This year it's at another shop at $247.95! I filled mine with coleus.

My monarda comes up today, gets repotted and goes back into the earth.

Love that coleus in the rustic pot idea. (and Edith and her cake, too) I have many coleus seedlings I'm just deciding on how to use. DH will love my going to get another of those pots (or 2!)

I plant my beebalm in semi shady areas--they clump better. I love the color & deadhead for more blooms. The height & butterflies are worth it.

Wanda, I agree the height and butterflies are definitely worth it. I'll have to try giving it less sun; then maybe I can have even more!

Thanks so much Wanda for telling me about more shade for the Monarda. I love to photograph the butterflies on my Black Knight butterfly bush so I'll find a special place for my monarda.

Dumb question here. What happens if these guys sit in full sun?

When I had my Monarda in full sun it was in with other plants so that's probably why it got mildew. Now it's surrounded by cement and does well, longer. It is in partial shade now. I just love passing it and smelling it - heavenly. I'd try it or half of it in full sun and half in part shade and see who does better. My eyes are always greedy for photo ops so I want it where I can see it and catch the butterflies - a real dilemna. Now if I could just move one of the fourteen, 45 year old, Colorado spruces over about 30' I could have the best of all possible worlds.

One of my Master Gardner neighbors stopped over today with some plants for me and mentioned the Houttanyia (I told you I can't spell that one) problem that she has in one area: 14 years and she can't get rid of it. Another neighbor hires help to dig it out and over $400. later she still has it.

We love ours because the bees and butterflies love it. As to its prolific nature, that is what a hoe is made for...and why you have neighbors with whom to share plants.

Questions: Can it be cut back to keep it a bit more manerly? Will it rebloom?

I'm thinking along the lines of what you can do to cut back Centaurea montana to keep it nicer looking.

Jefe - a hoe is a wonderful tool and too wide to get between my daylilies to remove the Houttaneyia. As far as the hoe and the Monarda I'd prefer to just dig up the wanderers and give them to friends. Houttaneyia I would not give to friend or foe. Now I can understand why California and Arizona have banned lythrum!