Ok, throw dirt at me if this is a dumb question!

I am new here and I "thought" I new a thing or two about Datura. After reading over some of the threads in this forum I am second guessing that. I knew there were many different cultivars of Datura but I had no idea it was this vast. I love my "moonflowers", I have a few different types, all white and all bloom at night. These Datura in these threads - I assume they are named cultivars from Heirloom seed? Do they also open at night? - are they the same as my loved moonflowers only with color? I have tons of stamps and tons of room in my garden. Anyone have any interesting seeds for SASE? I would be happy to trade but other than some common herbs and trees and a bunch of little Innoxia babies I really do not have anything very exotic to offer. Even if I dont get one seed I would still like to know a bit about all these wonderful plants. My main question is if they are night bloomers all?

Moonflowers belong to the Ipomoea family [morning glories] whereas Datura are in the Solanacea Family [datura and brugmansia]. both species are night bloomers.

and there are no stupid questions either. the only stupid question that exist are those that are never ask or answered, in my book that is.

The "Moonflower" name was a point of confusion for me also. I finally figured out many people refer to low growing solid white Daturas as Moonflowers. I believe it may be D. innoxia.

Judy

as i have said "Moonflower" is Ipomonea alba which is a vine http://www.moonlightsys.com/themoon/flower.html , http://www.dulley.com/plant/a062.shtml ... which is a vine belonging to the Ipomonea or morning glory family.

http://www.gardenguides.com/seedcatalog/flowers/moonflower.htm , http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/flowers/moonflr.html , http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/893/

Actually MaVieRose - many people do refer to Datura Innoxia as "Moonflower". Even in the trade you can find "Moonflower Vines" (Ipomoea) and "Moonflower Bush" (Datura Innoxia). My confusion was that I did not realize there was such a vast variety of Datura cultivars available. (not moonflowers) until joining this site and catching this forum. They are just not very popular around here and you only see the Datura Innoxia at the retail stores - pegged as "moonflower bush" ;-) We all learn something new every day.

In the same robin, I was able to get some "moonflower" along with the triple yellow daturas. I'll wait until June before I plant both.
-Juli

seed clarification:
datura innoxia seeds are like tomato seeds: flat and beige to light brown color.
moonflower [ipomonea alba] are round like pearl shape and beige in color

both needs warmer soil to grow good, and both bloom at night. blooms are both white in color. the main difference is moonflower[Ipomonea alba] is a vine, whereas Datura innoxia is bush type growth.

i simply do not understand why people like to give names to plant when there are existing plant names: i depend on Latin plant name than the common names that people tag to them [which in the long ran create a lot of confusions].

LOL - Ipomonia alba is just that - Ipomonia alba. Datura Innoxia is just that - Datura Innoxia. Latin names are set in stone and will never be confused. Common names however are just that - common names used by retailers and those not in the horticulture business so they do not have to use latin, scientific names. Common names can be different for the same plant in different regions of the United States - let alone different regions of the world.

Both Ipomonia and Datura have large white flowers that bloom at night under the moon - therefore both are commonly called "moonflower" and NO ONE is wrong in either case since it is a common name. I can guarantee you that people have been calling Datura Innoxia "moonflower" since before we were all on this planet. Common names are not reliable, they are "formed" over time and not assigned. Just for fun, here are a few common names for Datura Innoxia - 1. "thorn apple", 2. moonflower bush, 3. jimpson weed, 4. angels trumpet. Ok, so common names can be fun huh? All these names for the same plant. I am sure Ipomonia alba has more common names than I can remember but I only remember 1. moonflower vine and 2. Giant White. Anyone know any others?

slgrowers - My only Daturas, from last year, have been identified by people on this site as Datura Innoxia. I had them in pots, in an area where they got morning sun and afternoon medium shade and as a result the blooms were open most of the day, which was a delight, especially compared to my neighbor's which were planted in the sun and she only got to see them when the sun went down.

Good luck with your Daturas.

Judy

Judy - wow, I have never seen Innoxia open during the day - even in shade. You were lucky. My flowers look great at night and into early morning but wither away during the day. Ever been lucky enough to see sphinx moths visit your blooms in the evening? They are about the same size and fly very similar to hummingbirds and are fun to watch. Gotta watch your plants though if they visit to often. The cattapillars will strip a plant in days.

Innoxia's do bloom in the day time, specially on a gloomy or cloudy day.

sigrowers, u just have zone 8a, so i can not comment on ur area. i am in the desert of S. Ca., where it is always sunny. once in a blue moon it does get cloudy.

Here are a few different pictures of the Daturas from last year. If it isn't the same as what you have I will be glad to send you some seeds.

Another shot

Final pix

In some of the pictures you can tell by the shadow that the sun is high. I would guess it was about Noon.

Its the same - Definately Datura Innoxia but mine never opened during the day like that in over 6 years of growing them. I am sooooo jealous. I wonder if your seed has the genetic code that would allow it to open during the day in shade here? Plants are pretty amazing in that way. I have always grown mine from the first year from "heirloom" seed. So I grow from the same plants every year. Mine just may be a bit more sensitive to light and pass that along in the seeds. I will send you mail regarding the seeds - its worth a try just as an experiment.

Mavierose, I am in MS and jealous of your California weather.

Did you notice how these seem to melt, collar turn down for lack of better words. The hotter it gets during the day the more they fold back.

This message was edited Apr 30, 2005 5:30 PM

no reason to be jealous of Ca. weather, specially in the upper desert [close to 4,000 above sea level] cuz the winds are constantly blowing almost all year round. even the inside of the house get too dusty due to the sand storms. i do not know about new houses built here, but definitely old houses are penetrated by the sand storms.

perhaps u are at work during the daytime, not allowing u to see and observe the datura blooms. but i believe the blooms should trive in ur area, with some humidity like Judy has in her area. when the sun shines here, no way can any blooms make it without drying up so quick or the blooms get "cooked" by the strong sun intensity.

MaVie would it be better to plant on the northside of the house then here in the desert? I have a wonderful west side planting area but if they are going to burn up in our tremendous summer heat, I don't want to risk it. And yes new houses get full of dust/dirt too.
-Juli

Juli... it's difficult to recommend where to plant, as i am not familiar with ur area at all, although we are both in the upper desert. one thing i am positive of: Datura innoxia and stramonium can be planted in full sun, whereas Datura metels are a wee bit picky. D. metels specially the double or triple kind, need to be planted in partial sun/shade [blooms do not last long, as the sun "fries" the edges of the flower. in semi shaded area the blooms last longer, 3-5 days. in the heat of summer sun of 115ºF, blooms are a goner after one day.

well the apartment we used to rent is far newer than this house. in the apartment, we had little dirt/dust compared to this house. i have never lived in apartment or house when it rains, all the clothes in the closets get soggy wet. or when there is a bad sand/wind storm, clothes in the closet were dirty. i love to have all my clothes hanging in the closet. before i noticed the problem, i often wonder why after a shower. putting on, what i thought were "clean clothes", i felt itchy all over. then i finally discovered why. clothes in the closet, that were immediately hanged in hanger after being washed and dried are supposedly to be clean. not in this house. i accidentally find out the reason of my skin being itchy was because of the dust/dirt blown in from the outside. the alledged "clean" clothes were filthy dirty, as indicated after washing them without being worn. imagine wearing clothes and working in the dirt all day, that is how dirty those clothes in the closet tend to be. i have bought huge plastic container, and now fold my clothes instead of hanging them.

actually slwgrower is right. i've grow "moonflowers" for years and they do not open during the day here in our zone, 8b. plants can act very different in diffrerent growing climates, that's why its probably best never to put a growth habit or trend in stone.
who knows why? i sure don't. i have tulips that are not supposed to come back or repeat flower anywhere near my zone, and they keep coming strong every year. if you can imagine that. even when winters are more mild than usual.

all in the microclimates, i guess.

if u are referring to moonflower [ipomonea alba], YES! it does not bloom in the daytime. the only exception would be on a dreary cloudy day, where it is nice and cool.

this is the very reason why i specifically mentioned the latin names to refer to, instead of common names!

the moonflower [Datura innoxia] do bloom in the sun. i live in a part of the Mojave Desert . i have seen D. Innoxia to be blooming in the sun in the wild! and also in my garden.

i have for years been growing both Ipomonea and Datura varieties for years!!! i am speaking from experience and various researches done on line... one reason why i back up my claim with url's. see all the links for Ipomonea alba on my 4/30/05, 10:46 posting.

here's some link for D. innoxia http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/annuals/downythornapple.html , http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/355/index.html
PlantFiles: Detailed information on Hindu Datura, Indian Apple, Jimson Weed, Sacred Datura, Thorn Apple (Datura inoxia)

twenty2libras - actually it turns out slgrowers doesn't live that far from me and with us growing what we think is the same plant , it is interesting that hers does not bloom during the day, but mine does. Please see the shadows on the above pictures, which gives evidence to the fact that it was about noon when the pictures were taken.

I'm sending her seeds from the plant I grew last year so that she can plant them to see if blooms will be open during the day for her.

Is this kinda like kittens and puppies, no two are exactly alike???? I certainly do not know.

Have a good growing season.

Judy

yes i'm speaking of Datura Innoxia, or the 'bush moonflower' whatever you want to call it. i had no idea it was even a datura until i got on this forum.

unless i am mistaken..which is entirely possible...the one i have has sort of a shrubby form, whit e flowers resembling the ipomoea alba kind.. but they grow somewhat upright. are we speaking of the same plant?

i hope no one is taking offense here, i certainly did not mean to tick you off, Ma.
by no means. i was just stating that it does not open here. in my expieriance. of course i believe it opens there. like judy says...puppies and kittens :)

edited for judy...i would like to take part in that little experiment! i'll trade ya! (do you like vines?)



This message was edited May 4, 2005 4:54 PM

Just send me your address and I'll send some seeds. I had some packages due to go out today but I have a screaming headache, therefore tomorrow is mailing day.

Judy

i am not tick of at all! i am merely Clarifying cuz i do know a lot of people are confused with the proper identity of daturas. there are so many different varieties. plus even online the names keep changing.

as i was doing research earlier, i notice one site has datura innoxia but the photo was a datura metel "Alba"... talking about confusioning the issue!!!

jeez.