to use or not use use fresh pine mulch

I have been offered free a truck load of fresh pine mulch. I am posting this question as I have never used pine before I have always used Cypress. Okay so now for the question.

Can I use Pine mulch without hurting any of my plants, I have been told that it is very acidic and will kill grass but what about plants, I know some plants like acidic soil, but not all do. I have a very large woodland garden that takes alot of mulch and would like to take advantage of this free offer.
Does anyone have an opinion?

JoAnn

are you talking about chips or pine straw?I use tons of pine straw for mulch here. works well and its free.

Pine Chips is what the guy is offering.

JoAnn

In my humble and non-scientific opinion, mulch typically takes a good long while to break down and its effect on the soil's pH is mitigated by the slow breakdown and other variables that nature and you may throw into the works.

If this is potentially a very real threat to some plants that will famish if exposed to a lower pH then don't use it near them, or plan on using a fertilizer that will help raise your soil's pH and offset the effect of the mulch.

thanks terry, i kinda knew that just wanted someone else's opinion.

Joann

Well put Terry. One other thing to consider is that the fresh pine chips will produce a fair amount of heat, especially at first, if they are piled too thickly. Might want to keep the layer at 3 inches or so.

Thanks for all the info.

JoAnn

i read someplace that pine is one of the worst mulches
to use around plants. It really messes up the soil till it
brakes down. I cant recall what exactely it does to the
soil.

If you look at a group of pine trees most of the time
you see nothing growing around them, just a blanket of
pine needles laying on the ground.

Your are right VB I have seen that, I decided not to take the guy up on his offer. I wish someone would offer me a free truck load of Cypress mulch LOL.

Considering I will probably need 2 truck loads this year.

JoAnn

The soil around pine trees is highly acidic, so I would think that pine chips and needles would be too. I'll compost fir sawdust, but I avoid pine.

I live in a Florida scrub piney flatwoods area and garden with largely native plants. I have used fresh ground pine trees with no ill effects. It breaks down faster than usual cypress which I no longer use because of its detrimental environmental impact. Part of my yard is pine needles or straw--this is supplied natrually now that I have the vines out of the trees and the natural supply is plentiful--My walkways are all pine bark--I like that except for the fact that it does not stay in place---Interestingly I have no fire ants where I have pine bark--though local extension agents disagree or don't know---That has been my experience now for three years. I do have fire ants in other areas especially on the edge of the small band a grass I have in the swale along the road. The only insecticides I use are to kill fire ants and I have a centricon system for termite control and the company uses the bait as needed.--I fertilize very sparingly--only around the non-native plants that I have--the natives don't need it.---I have a tuff time keeping up with the pruning.

The only mulch I buy is either pine bark for the walkways or melaluca for gardens. Sometimes it is called Floramulch--- The Army Corp of engineers planted the trees to dry up the everglades years ago in one of their many stupid wonders. Guess what it worked. Now they are grinding them up for mulch to restore the everglades---It is a great mulch for sloped areas as it quickly forms a mat and stays in place--doesn't float.

Perhaps one of the reasons I don't have trouble with the pine is that my plantings are mostly part of the natural ecosystem which includes pines.
I do have plants growing around the pine trunks, palmetto, grapevine, native passion flower, wild coffee, coontie, scrub oaks---some non-native forms of porter weed, do well as of course, beach sunflower,

Karl in Venice Florida zone 10a

Karl--I wonder if you have a different type of pine? Ours is jackpine. Also, here it is very dry and perhaps any acidity doesn't get diluted. I love your description of your garden, with naturally occurring plants encouraged to grow around the pines.

Here, we're "high and dry" with very thin soils. Mainly, we get grasses and kinnikinick. The odd sedum. The idea of growing passion flower outside boggles my mind!

Hey Story, I find that interesting, we come to NewPort Richey every September to visit my Uncle and I find alot of pine mulch around, I wonder if it helps with erosion from around the beaches that are not highly populated.

We went to this one beach with a wooden walkway that was very swampy and it was filled with mulch underneath the walkway couldn't help but notice that there was not growth under the walkway wonder did the pine kill off the growth or keep it under control.

JoAnn

I am in the process of having 14 pine trees removed and the stumps ground out. I would like to recycle the grindings, but understand that it needs to cure for a while before using. Does anyone know the process or time involved. As you can imagine I will have quite a bit once all the stumps are ground down into the root systems. I get conflicting advise and need a tried and true response. I am in the panhandle of Florida.
Lynda

Storyteller,
Hope you're still checking out this thread. How do you get the pine needles ground. I have 17 acres of ponderosa pine. The depth of needles exceeds a foot in some areas. We are thinning to let light in and for fire protection. I'd like to use the needles as part of a large composting project I'm starting.
Thanks
kokopelli

LyndaB, I had about that many pines removed from my yard in 2003. I called two different gardening shows about this, to see if I got the same answer. They both said I should let the sawdust from the stump grindings compost for at least a year. I raked as much as I could into black plastic trash bags, threw in a little dirt and a handful of AG ORG P/L (Agricultrual Organic Poultry Litter.) Everything was lined up in an out of the way area (that luckily got about half a day of sun), I watered them in a little bit, closed the bags, and forgot about them. After about 16 mos I started throwing some of it into my composter with other ingredients, and some of it it mixed in with compost I was putting in the beds. It looked and smelled like "good dirt."

Just a note about the reason you don't see much growing around the bases of pines trees. The biggest problem is that pines have a shallow root system, and they are the most successful competitiors for water. Throw in shade and a blanket of pine straw constantly falling on you, and lots of plants don't make it.

kokopelli, I break down my pine straw be either raking them into a pile and running over them with my mulching mower (w/the bagger attached to collect them), or I use my grass blower/vacuum to vacuum them up (the vacuum breaks them up.)

Hope this helps,
Maggie

While it is true that pine products are acidic, the acidity is not the big problem. Tannins in tannic acid are. Different types of pines have different levels of tannins in their litter and bark. This is an allelopathic compound that prevents competition from other plants and is the reason you often do not see other things growing under or around a stand of certain types of pines. Rain water releases the tannins and they then can have some negative effect on the growth of plants around them. Florida Slash Pine is normally quite low in tannins and is one of the main reasons Florida pine straw is such a desireable mulching material. In regions that recieve a lot of summer rain, the pines are normally quite a bit lower in tannins in that they are washed frequently by rains. In areas where drought is common....here...Monterey, Ponderosa, Sugar, Jeffrey, and many other pine species product a bucket-load of tannins that are bound by our irrigation water to the material. When winter rains hit, the tannins are released into the ground causing what can only be called a 'Holy Smokes' moment that frequently alters plant growth for the worse. We don't get as much pine here as Eucalyptus mulch which is terrible for allelopathic tannins and the oil eucalyptol. If we were in an area that received a lot of summer rain we'd be using pine all over the place, alas we don't. We are forced to use composted horse manure that is run through the earthworm factory before using. And 28 horses produce a lot of poop to compost..lol.

Oh my. I just bought and applied 9 cu. ft. of pine shaving on my new flower bed. Its got some daylilies that are plants and then a bunch of asiatic and oriental lily bulbs along with a few daffodils. The mulch is only about 1 1/2" thick.
The guy at the garden store said that even though they sell it as animal bedding, it would be perfect for mulch. Did I just issue a death sentence to my brand new garden???

You might want to add something high in nitrogen to compensate for the nitrogen that the shavings may rob from the soil.

phkat, you'll be fine. You applied the pine as a mulch and not incorporated it into your soil. As a mulch there will not be much of a nitrogen depletion; if you had mixed it into your soil you would see a temporary N depletion as it breaks down. I'm sure your daylillies and such will be fine.

Thank you horseshoe, you've made me feel much better.

Glad to help! And by the way....WELCOME TO DG! Hope to see you around the site!

Happy Gardening!
Shoe

I have been using pine shavings for my baby chicks. When I clean out their brooder/grower box, I have been saving the mix of shavings and poo, and adding it to my compost pile. Is this something I should not be doing? I am new to composting, and just started my pile this summer. Thus far, my compost pile consist of fruit/veggie scraps, and grass clippings (we do not spray chemicals of any form in the yard). I had thought pine shavings and poo would be a good addition.

TIA

That's an excellent addition! How nice that you get the little chicks to mix their poo up in there for you! :-)

ditto what maggie says. The pine shavings/poo will be great for your compost and should contribute to an even balance of your grass clippings and veggie scraps.

Might I also say, "a HEARTY WELCOME TO DG!"

See you around the garden!

Thank you for your replies. Do you have any other recommended additions?

Kool plan Maggie. Wondering how you get/make the pine shavings. I'm thinning my ponderosa forest and am looking at chipper/shredders to break the slash down for composting. I also have tons, and there may actually be one or two tons of dry pine needles that I'd like to shred too. Trying to decide what piece of equipment I might get. I've been planning to start another thread on this. And, since you're talking about the end result I'm looking for, thought I'd ask.

By the way, DH is growing game birds now. I'll have to tell him about the pine shavings. No need I guess for all this straw!

And... absotively welcome to DG!
koko