Anyone start winter squash and melons indoors?

I would be interested to know if anyone starts winter squash and melons indoors. It would be nice to get a jump on the short growing season we have here in far upstate NY. I am growing Potimarron and Musquee de Provence winter squash and Charentais, Tigger and Collective farm Woman melons.

You can certainly start those indoors in order to get a jump on the season.

I have the luxury of a very long season here, so I generally don't start them inside.

The only exception to that would be my pumpkin seeds. I start those indoors in order to increase survival rates when they are confronted with the heat of July.

You should plant them only three weeks prior to your desired transplant date.

Good Gardening!

Aubrey

I like to start squash, melons, and cukes indoors 2-3 weeks of planting out. Assuming they're properly hardened off before setting into the garden, they seem to do better for me than direct seeded ones. Maybe critters are eating my direct sowed seeds or young sprouts!

I've used peat pots, figuring on minimal disturbance to the seedling that way. The roots of these plants don't seem to have any trouble breaking through the pot, although I don't like peat pots for most things. Just be sure to bury the lip of the pot a good 1/2 inch below the soil level so it won't wick & evaporate moisture from the young plants' roots.

This year, I may try germinating them in gelatin cubes! Got that idea from another thread, using double-strength gelatin (like the jello jiggler's recipe) to make gel blocks for germination.

Thanks for the advice. I've been saving yoghurt containers with the plastic lids to use as seed starters (little greenhouses). So I am going to put one seed in the center and hope to grow these melons and squash to the point where they are a bit rootbound. Then they should go into the ground and be happy to be there (and no complaints!). Ha.

My wife came up with a very intelligent and frugal method. We use little cheap paper cups. They have to be paper...and that is getting more challenging to find. Sometimes the cheapy $1 stores have them. As critterologist does, we only give them 2-3 weeks. Then we cut about half of the cup away with a scissor and set it into the ground. Remember that they are not crazy about being transplanted.

Hey Critter, any chance of supplying the link for the gelatin? That sounds like a cool idea.

geez I started them indoors and they are doing great but it is a while before the frost date (month) sounds like I did it too soon.
Oh Well -

Oldseed,

Watermelons like really big pots with a lot of root volume. I start them 4 or 5 weeks early to get a really good head start on our short growing season here in Maine. I use the bottoms of 2-liter soft drink bottles to make some big inexpensive durable pots. Many of the pots I am using this year are in their third year of use. They hold a liter or more of growing medium (I use Premier Pro Mix BX) and give the roots a lot of volume to grow into, so my watermelons can become quite advanced by the time it is safe to set them out in the garden.

They typically will have a beginning vine with tendrils and flowers. I grow them under over-driven fluorescent lights for a 50% increase in light level, which they appreciate. I water them with a diluted urea-free soluble fertilizer with trace elements. Watermelons grow very fast, so they are quite rootbound in 4 or 5 weeks, even in the big pots.

That rootbound condition works to their advantage when it comes time to set them out. The pots are flexible so I can sort of "knead" the pot to loosen the rootball from the sides, put my hand over the top of the pot to catch the plant, turn the pot upside down, rap the bottom of the pot with my trowel, and the rootball just falls out as a self-contained object into my hand. It's almost like the roots form their own peat pot or Jiffy fiber pot.

So the watermelon vine's roots are undisturbed as I place the rootball in the hole and fill in around it. That is a good thing because watermelons, like several garden plants, depend on a good taproot going down deep and much resent having their roots disturbed.

I have used that same technique successfully on several other garden plants, including cucumbers, corn, onions, summer squash, pumpkins, eggplants, peppers, and tomatoes. I have given up on corn because of our ongoing squirrel/chipmunk problem, but this year I plan to start some pole beans, kohlrabi, and tomatilloes in the big soft drink pots to get an earlier start. And as many watermelons as I can find space for.

MM

What a great idea MM. You obviously have a much more sophisticated approach to growing things than I do (overdriven lights...cheeesh!). Your garden must be something to see.

I am saving large and cheap containers and will certainly collect some of those large very soft-walled soda bottles for the mellons. Noticed today that a Potimarron squash has broken surface.
I am not growing watermellons this year but will use this method on half of my Charentais, Collective farm Woman and Tigger melons.

Now if spring's warmth will just arrive.

MaineMan,

Over-driven lights? Tell us more. Sounds like a techie-geek's dream.

Jefe

We've always started melons in the greenhouse. Usually plant out after 6-8 weeks. we plant into a 24 cell 1020 flat. They pop right out of them with no root distrubance. The older plants have better roots. Here we set them out May 29. By June 10 they are running & flowering. Pick them first melons Aug 15.
Squash, pumpkins, & gourds all were started in greenhouse last year. Beats them stupid cucumber bettles. We used big pots, 3½" square. Worked great. Only lost a few plants & that was because of no rain & hot sun. We had some 500 plants. Acorn squash was ready Aug 20. All of the squash was earlier, so we got a jump on the market. Sold lots of squash for $1.00 a pound.
We will never plant a seed directly in the ground again!
Bernie

sorry it took me a week to check back with this thread!

Here's the link on gel & jello methods.... http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/477145/

I bumped it back to the top of the Propagation forum.

Jefe,

"Over-driven lights? Tell us more. Sounds like a techie-geek's dream."

I don't know if you can access it from here, but if you can, there is a lot of information, and other links, at this link:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lights/msg0200530730707.html?64

If you can't access that link, I will give a brief explanation here. An overdriven fixture gets 50% more light out of a fluorescent tube. The life of the tube is reduced somewhat. But my Philips T8 bulbs are rated at 20,000 hours, so even if the life of the bulbs is cut in half, I am happy with the extra light. And so are my plants. Let me know if you can access that link.

MM

Critter -- when's your target date for starting the melons/cukes indoors? I figure the setting-out date to be late May/early June, but I've never done this before and the local extension office is pretty unhelpful.

I start them just a couple of weeks (no more than 3) before setting out. They won't do much unless the soil has warmed, so I've been putting them out the first week in June; it's generally my next thing after setting out pepper seedlings. Peppers don't go out before Memorial Day, and I put tomatoes out 2 weeks before the peppers. Hope that gives you an idea of the timeline that seems to work for me!

I know one zone 6 area isn't necessarily like another; our late frost date here is April 20-something. You local extension office should at least be able to give you the average date of last frost. I'd wait 2 or 3 weeks beyond that before setting out tomatoes, 2 weeks more for peppers, and cukes the week after that. Hmm, that probably means you should start your cukes about when you're setting out your tomatoes.

ok, now that was truly helpful. Thanks! My last frost date is May 9, argh.

You're welcome!

You can "push" those dates a bit for tomatoes, if you're willing to protect them in case of a freeze in the forecast, but the peppers and cukes will just sit there and shiver until the soil warms up. Putting down black plastic mulch a week or so before planting can help warm up the soil (some people leave it down to suppress weeds and plant through it, others take it up).

I'm on the black plastic, even though I hate that stuff. (Previous owners put it down everywhere and now it flaps around and shreds in the wind... plan to get rid of all I can this weekend). I've got some homemade hot caps for the tomatoes.

Would you mind sharing what soil prep you do for melons? This heavy clay isn't so nice to them, I hear. And I haven't grown them before.

MaineMan,

I've been busy planting, and have been away from this thread. Lots of good information has been shared. I've decided I have too many grow lights to probably justify the cost of overdriving, however, I might try it with a couple.

I have always used fluorescent shop light fixtures. They take an F40 bulb. I just wandered around dozens of sites trying to find out the difference between a T8 bulb and an F40 bulb? T8 bulbs are the smaller diameter ones, right? Do they call an F40 a T12 now? Do all the fixtures that use F40 bulbs have magnetic ballasts?

Jefe

Zeppy, I'm sorry to say I havn't had much luck with melons here. The fruits are small and take forever to get ripe, so maybe the vines are struggling. I'm skipping them this year. My vine hills are out in the orchard area, which has been amended with 4 to 6 inches of compost that was mostly made from horse manure.

Zeppy it depemds on what you mean by "melons". Never had any problem growing cantaloupes on clay soil. The planting row does need to be elevated a couple of inches above the surounding soil. Keeps the clay from becoming waterlogged and turning into adobe brick. Planting through black plastic will give you a couple weeks jump. Watermelons of course despise clay and will sulk and refuse to ripen properly. Spanish melons also dislike heavier soils.

Jefe,

"I just wandered around dozens of sites trying to find out the difference between a T8 bulb and an F40 bulb? T8 bulbs are the smaller diameter ones, right? Do they call an F40 a T12 now?"

Yes. I think F40 stood for "fluorescent 40 watt". Currently fluorescent bulbs are given a "T" designation, which is the number of one-eighths of an inch in diameter of the bulb. Thus, a T8 is one inch in diameter. A T12 is 1½" in diameter. A T5 is 5/8ths. T12s are old technology, have a lot of mercury in them, and aren't very energy efficient.

"Do all the fixtures that use F40 bulbs have magnetic ballasts?"

Probably not all, but most all. The Commercial Electric shoplights that I use can accept either T8 or T12 bulbs. And they have overdriveable electronic ballasts. So I could overdrive T12 bulbs, but I choose to use T8s because they put out more light, use less electricity, contain lots less mercury, and cost less. I get a box of 10 Philips cool white T8s for $19.95 at Home Depot, so my T8s cost me $2 each. They draw 32 watts, are rated at 20,000 hours, and put out 2850 lumens without overdriving. Overdriving makes them 50% brighter.

MM

MaineMan,

Less mercury is always a good thing. I'll change my buying habits in the future. It never ceases to amaze me how Dave's Garden helps to pool knowledge and talent to the good of all subscribers.

You are the "Main Man". Thanks for the information.

Jefe

Jefe,

Wow! That was a quick response. You're welcome for the information.

MM

I have some overdriven T8s as well... Love them...

Drew