Historic iris question?

Do you thinks this is Louvois 1936? I think it looks like the photo on the web site.
http://www.argyleacres.com/gallery/view_list_historic.asp?historic_z=yes

Here is another view

How about this one--Broadway Star?

Hooked............. looks like Louvois 1936 is a match - - especially if you look at how the falls are cut, AND it matches the description to a "T". Have you found something ( a photo/description) to make you think the 3rd photo you posted is "Broadway Star?" Looks like it could be though. Seems like you have a "good eye". (smiles)

~Margie

Your iris looks more like the LOUVOIS on Argyle's site than it does like the LOUVOIS on the HIPS site (whose accurate identity I would be more inclined to trust). The HIPS version has a more narrow rim of color around the falls and has less busy haft markings than your iris.

They're close enough to be a possible match, though, so by all means buy a LOUVOIS and grow it side by side with your unknown for the next few years to see if they really do match.

Laurie

Dear "hooked," I think you may indeed have Louvois. Many years ago I had the variety and loved it as one of my favorites. It is not especially tall nor large--almost BB in height if not actually falling into that range.

The key characteristic is in the color. It is unique to my knowledge. The brown is almost a grey-brown, and the plush fall color is wonderfully rich. It has none of the golden glow common to all other "brown" irises I have seen. The color is muted and very soothing to the spirit.

Your photo shows the form I remember. Like those above, I both agree you probably have the authentic clone, but just to make sure, acquiring the one offered by Superstition is a good idea. R & R have gone to great lengths to make sure what they offer is correctly identified. Their reputation is extraordinary for accuracy.

I am especially glad to see a gardener with an appreciation of the great classics, of which this certainly is one. What others are you growing? You have aroused my curiosity!

Neil Mogensen

Thanks All!

Margie,
I'm not sure what makes me think this is Broadway. I guess I'll pay closer attention when it blooms this summer.

Laurie,
What is HIPS?

Neil,
your description matches mine perfectly! That color is just so different.

My thought;
the lavender & purple on the right is Amas,
the white & purple on the left is Wabash,
brown in center???

HIPS-Historic Iris Preservation Society

http://www.worldiris.com/public_html/Frame_pages/QFix.html

Before assigning a name to any unknown iris, be sure to read the following two articles on the HIPS site:

http://www.worldiris.com/public_html/Frame_pages/ID.html
http://www.worldiris.com/public_html/Identification/Photo_ID1.html

Laurie

This message was edited Jan 20, 2005 11:31 AM

This a better pic of the brown one.
The one the left doesn't mach the Argyle Wabash well, but it's a match from the Google Wabash photo.

Thanks Laurie,
I know that there are so many iris that are so close that it is almost impossible to be sure of a name. I know from buying dayliles, even if you buy it with a name some times they aren't correct. It's just kind of fun to do a little guessing. I'll be sure to read the articles. Thanks again for the HIPS site!

This is the Google pic.

Wow Laurie, Their pics are beautiful! Do you think they are true to color? They look so dark!

There is no such thing as "true to color" when viewing iris photos on a computer monitor because monitor settings themselves can affect color representation. If you had four different monitors attached to your computer and you brought up the exact same photo on each one, each one would probably look different.

That's why it's so impossible to make positive IDs of irises by photos alone, esp on a computer. The best you can hope for is a really close match that you can then acquire and grow side by side in your garden for real life comparisons.

FYI, the photos on the HIPS site come from a variety of sources. I assume the accuracy of the identifications is verified before posting them on the site, but I'm not certain of that. As Neil mentioned, Superstition Gardens has a reputation for being very meticulous in the identifications of their historic stock, so I have a lot of faith in the accuracy of their historic pics, too. You can view Superstition's historic photo albums at the following link:

http://community.webshots.com/album/119364712BMqeMl

Laurie

Hooked, I can't identify your glowing brown/coppery-toned one, but I think I can help you narrow your search.

The form of the flower and the way the colors blend is of the nature of those stemming from RAMESES from the Nebraska Sass brothers work. PRAIRIE SUNSET is one of the most famous and widely grown of those--and one you would undoubtedly enjoy growing. It also is a DM winning variety from long, long ago. Back in the days when new introductions were introduced for next to nothing by today's dollar value, PRAIRIE SUNSET was introduced at some astronomical figure, I believe, on the order of $100.

The outrageous price tag probably won it the Dykes Medal because of sheer hoopla and bravado. Your no-ID clone may be a close relative--of which there is almost an uncounted number, or it could be Prairie Sunset itself. Laurie, what do you think? I know you have looked at Rameses. Have you--or any of the rest of you--grown Prairie Sunset?

Neil Mogensen

Neil,
I had written down a few to check and Praire Sunset was one of them, so I'm so glad for your input! Thanks!
I would also like to add my, Welcome!
I hope you enjoy Daves Garden!
Bonnie

Neil,

I've never seen nor grown Prairie Sunset, though I'd like to. I love those warm, toasted watermelon tones. And remember, I may or may not have ever seen Rameses. My clone (the one I shared with you last year) might actually be Frank Adams or some other relative within that line. With any luck at all, I'll get to see some or all three - Rameses, Frank Adams, and my ?Rameses? - bloom this year and be able to get this ID problem straightened out.

Looking back at Bonnie's third pic posted in this thread - the one she guesses might be Broadway Star - I wonder if that one might be descended from Rameses, as well. Does that seem like reasonable or likely speculation?

Laurie

Laurie, I found Praire Sunset 1936 SASS TB M/L here awhile back.
http://www.gardeneureka.com/ Willow Bend Farm
I thought I saved a photo, but can't find it. I tried to open this site today and it won't let me.

It's OK, Bonnie. I should have been more specific. I have seen pics of PS; in fact, there's a lovely one on the HIPS site. I've just never seen it in person.

Laurie

Laurie I do have some that look like the one on HIPS that have bloomed in the past. This photo was taken at my fathers probably 10 years ago. It's not a very good quality picture, but you can see these are much darker then the one above. I have both in my garden, just don't have a photo of the darker ones.

Most computer screens have a way of adjusting the color to read better. Your manual should tell you how. It helps when you're doing photo work to get a better picture of what you are going to get out of the printer. I'll bet it will help you with your Iris photos too.

And your fathers beds are beautiful. I know nothing about Historical iris and have been wondering if there is a genetic difference between modern and historical iris? Or what is the difference in categories? I put in several Historicals this past fall but I couldn't get a straight answer out of the vendor.

doss,

Historic irises, by current definition, are any non-bulbous irises registered 30 or more years ago, regardless of species or classification. There has been considerable discussion in recent years about subdividing the historic classification to better distinguish between more recent historics and those of eras long past, but to my knowledge no such subdivisions have yet been accepted as an AIS or HIPS standard.

Laurie

doss thank you.
My father is 81 and he doesn't do much gardening any more. I know he would like to, but just can't take care for that size garden now.

Thanks so much. I have noticed that some 1980's cultivars sometimes call themselves "historic". Seemed funny.

And it must be hard for your father, Hooked. The garden in the picture is so beautiful!

1980 irises being referred to as historic? Are you sure they weren't 1880 irises?

Laurie

Maybe it they were typos - or just put in the wrong place. Believe me I did a double take on them - that's where I got confused about what was historic and what wasn't. I can't even remember where I came across them. Ah well, now I know and I'll just be aware. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes up in the spring. Historic or not, they are beautiful.

Laurie, you asked if RAMESES might be in the ancestry of BROADWAY STAR. I could check it out if I ran a pedigree chart back 17 or more generations (more like 25, probably) but I'll make a general comment--there's darned few if any irises that have yellow pigments involved that don't have Rameses involved. Through its use in the ancestry of the pinks, and the DM both it and Prairie Sunset were awarded guaranteed their heavy use in breeding. Tthat double "ai" took me a while to learn, by the way--what a strange spelling!--must be from French.

Broadway Star may have Rameses umpteen times in its ancestry. It will be fun to chase back. Too bad I can't borrow a copy of Mike Lowe's program that builds the family trees linked on HIPS "Quick Fix" list for all the more significant (and DM) irises. I have a PC, and his program is designed for MAC.

Neil Mogensen

Boy was I wrong! I didn't realize BROADWAY STAR dated from as far back as it does, but even so, it does have a fairly complex and deep pedigree.

I can't quite figure out the generations, as Paul Cook's pinks (not tangerine bearded pinks--the pink blend kind) have pedigrees that have so many parentheses it makes my head ache!

But--I did find RAMESES--once. If I read the pedigree correctly, Rameses is the pollen parent of MAJENICA, which is one of the grandparents of Schreiner's OPAL BEAUTY. A sister seedling of Opal Beauty is the pollen parent of BROADWAY STAR.

What is not at all surprising was to find the great historic DOMINION. It appears over and over in the remote ancestry.

Even PINNACLE of Jean Stevens' (New Zealand) is involved.

Neil Mogensen

This is a photo of an historic - well they said it was - named Shurton Inn. Anybody know anything about it? What a question. Would you mind sharing what you know about it. I'm a total novice in the heritage area. In some of the newer Iris I'm beginning to recognize parentage - and then see if I'm right. Anyway here's Shurton Inn. It's one I put in the garden last fall.

doss, SHURTON INN isn't an historic. It was registered by Cy Bartlett in 1994.

Neil, I appreciate your info about BROADWAY STAR, but I wasn't speculating about it as much as I was about the third picture in this thread of the unknown that hooked guesses *might* be BS. From what you say, however, it sounds like there's a good chance the unknown BS has RAMESES in its background no matter what its true identity.

Laurie

That was fast. Thanks!

See there, I told you that people were giving me grief. I'll bet it's all from the same website. It looked like a modern Iris and that's why I put it here. I'll love it anyway. I should have known when I called the vendor and he really couldn't tell me the difference between modern and historic Iris. I think that I've been around a little since then - but just a little. :-> - won't get taken that way again. Now we'll see if this grower properly identified the Iris he sent me. Just have to wait until spring - It'll be OK anyway they come up - life is too short not to love every Iris you have.

i find a historic iris called drady at argyle acres. i was wandering if anyone has to tried to grow it or seen it? i like the black/white coloring. http://www.argyleacres.com/gallery/view_detail.asp?iris_id=148

Hooked, I got that very first iris up on top, had posted quite a while back for the name, so glad I found it. this one is so old, been at my mother's house forever, and I dug some up to bring home in rememberance of her, I sure hope they do well. They are sure pretty , and so glad I finally found a name for it.

looks just like yours.

kathy_ann

Hi Daylily, I grow Drady. It's delicate and lovely, however, Drady is not really black and white................ it is more of a darker purple and white. (see photo below) It's not a great photo of it, but you'll get the idea. With it being a Border Bearded it tends to be rather short, but attractive. If only we can get an iris that would be black and white with those kind of markings! aaaaaaahhhhhhhh. :-) One day soon, I bet.

~Margie

thanks, margie. it's still pretty. i am looking for irises that are unusual and have a wow punch. that's what if thought when i saw it. belinda

kathy_ann, I guess that's the in fun in sharing our photos! You never know when some else is looking for the same thing, or has it growing in their garden. Glad it helped! Even if I find the names for these iris, to me they will still be "My Dad's Iris"!
Bonnie

Here are few more. Any thoughts?

I call#9

This message was edited Jan 30, 2005 7:55 AM

#10

#23

#17

#57

#6