Diatomaceous Earth

Am I right in assuming that if I use Diatomaceous Earth to control slugs that it will also kill my earth worms?

If so, is there a product which will not harm the earth worms but kill the slugs? (I've read about beer traps, night patrols, ect. what I'm looking for is a faster fix.)

Or is my only option to reintroduce the worms after the slug problem is resolved?

Judy

DE is a barrier, similar to traps or other mechanical barriers so it's not really a question of faster. If you spread DE arround the area you are trying to protect, the slugs will not cross it as it irritates their skin. The same would be true of earthworms but it would not affect the the earthworms already within the barricaded area.

I believe a definition of Diatomaceous Earth is in order.

"Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is EPA approved and registered for use against indoor and outdoor crawling insects, including cockroaches, ants, bedbugs, fleas, boxelder bugs, carpet beetles, centipedes, crickets, earwigs, grasshoppers, ticks, millipedes, scorpions, slugs, and silverfish. For use in Cracks, Crevices, Hiding and Running Areas, Under and Behind Appliances, and Wall and Floor Surfaces. For use in and around homes, office buildings, restaurants, motels, warehouses, theaters, schools, hotels, and food handling establishments.

DE is odorless and nontoxic. DE is composed of finely milled fossilized shells of minuscule organisms called diatoms. The microscopically fine, sharp edges desiccate the insects' exoskeleton upon contact and the pests dehydrate and die within hours. The insects also die when they eat the dust."

http://www.biconet.com/crawlers/DE.html

Additional reference : Chapter8.p65
http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/ipm/schoolipm/chap-8.pdf


This message was edited Nov 20, 2004 2:27 PM

Here is another definition:

Diatomaceous Earth may be used as a barrier to control adult flea beetles, sawfly, coddling moth, twig borer, thrips, mites, cockroach, slugs, snails and many other insects such as:
Aphids, thrips, earwigs, silverfish, and ants. Can be used for cabbage root flies, carrot root flies, pillbugs and is helpful in dealing with fungus gnats. http://www.ghorganics.com/DiatomaceousEarth.html

and another:
GARDEN USE
Very few controlled studies of diatomaceous earth use in gardens and farms have been conducted. Permaguard Garden Insecticide containing DE is effective in controlling aphids, caterpillars, codling moth, flies and ants. The major problem with outside use, other than possible toxicity to beneficial insects, is the nuisance value of the dust. The dust always needs to be reapplied after rain. It is extremely fine and does not adhere well to foliage unless applied when the plants are slightly moistened or with an electrostatic applicator. http://www.greenharvest.com.au/pestcontrol2/diatomaceous_earth_info.html

and another:
Life Cycle: Most snail and slug species overwinter in the soil as adults, although some snail species overwinter as eggs. Both animals deposit eggs in moist habitats with development to maturity requiring a year or more. Common garden snails may survive for up to 9 years.
so
Solution: Handpick or trap snails and slugs on a regular basis. Slug & Snail Barrier, Slug Stop, and Diatomaceous Earth are all excellent barriers and work well to keep these destructive pests off plants. http://www.planetnatural.com/snails_slugs_control.html

So back to my original posting, may I have feedback from someone who has used this product to fight slugs!!

Thanks,

Judy

Judy, We have used DE. It will kill the slugs, but not your earthworms. It cuts into the slugs as they cross over it, it dries up their membranes and they die. Worms are built to handle it. We have used this many times and it is definitely a safe product.

Hope this answers your question. :) Kathy

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

I'm going to get happy tomorrow and dance around with face mask on tossing Diatomaceous Earth over my flower beds. I wonder if they sell it by the truck load. lol lol

LOL...You're too much...I have pictures of you dancing around piles of crushed shells. :)

Hello, All,

There is a food grade diatomaceous earth that is really, really effective. Look for it at restaurant supply houses. If you can't find the food grade....the regular stuff works great, too! April

Thanks for the information. It's going to have to be the pool filter grade DE at least to start. We're located way out in the country with the closest restaurant supply house at least 90 miles away and not open until Monday. It's not worth the drive or wait, unless the pool filter grade proves not to be effective.

Thanks for bring up the subject for some people might not have been aware that there are two different grades. From my web research it appears there is a difference of opinion in regard to effectiveness, but I couldn't locate documented proof for either opinion.

I did read about a concern regarding a build up in the soil of sodium from repeated use therefore sodium sensitive plants could be harmed, but I elect to live with the possible consequences of a one time application in my small area versus having the destructive slugs. Again I could not locate documentation that this was even a valid point. So many points of view or opinions are without validation. Again thanks for the input. - Judy

It rained here all day so I won't be able to apply the DE until tomorrow. I will keep you posted on the results.

Judy

Dang it! I was just going to write you and see if you had any results yet...It was a gloomy kind of day here, but thankfully just a few drizzles. We've had the monsoons the last few days, thus murky meadows farm...:) Kathy

Judy, just go out and buy yourself some Sluggo, Escargot, or generic Iron Phosphate product that will kill slugs. It will not harm other living things, and it will stop the slugs from feeding. They will die within a few days. We have lots of slugs up here in Southcentral Alaska. They like our cool, moist climate. This product has been a God sent to me.

Judy, last year I watched my hostas eaten alive by slugs big as a finger. Somewhere, I don't remember where, i read "slugs hate coffee grinds/grounds". So I proceeded in dumping them in and around my hosta this year, not a slug to be found, my roses responded well with them also. Try a coffee shop and ask them to save a bucket or 2, their free and harmless, and by the way earthworms love them. You may get a few strange looks but they'll understand your dedication once you explain.

That is a good idea. Judy what about salt or will that hurt your plants? And did you try the DE yet?

Heavy appications of coffee grounds might not suit the plants, since the leaching coffee grounds could make the soil acidic. Some plants like that, some don't.

The problem with salt is it disolves when wet and washes into the soil, so its a very temporary anti-slug device. I have found a ring of fine gravel very effective - the slugs hate to cross it 'cos it hurts. If it gets mixed into the soil it just improves the drainage and it looks quite decorative too - a sort of fine grit mulch if you like.

It's been raining almost all the time.... so I haven't gotten to do my DE dance!!

It's suppose to rain for a couple of more days and the temps are suppose to drop to freezing Thurday night. I'm finally bringing in potted plants out in the yard and as I do, I'm splashing them with DE, hopefully to make sure slugs don't come into the poly covered porches.

Come to think of it, I toss coffee grounds in a small section of my garden plot, (composting one small area at a time) and I believe they have moved out of that area, I'll have to verify that tomorrow.

Judy, Isn't this rain incredible? I've about had it. We couldn't harvest a lot of our crops for CSA delivery tonight and our lettuce has rotted at the base from all the wet! The turnips won't even budge from the ground and neither will the boots when trying to get them! Rain, rain go away.......come again early next May!!! or something like that. ha, ha...Kathy

Amen!!!

Judy, go out at night with your flashlight and salt shaker. Just don't go out barefoot the next morning. This from an ex-Seattleite. Jeanette

Judy, I've also heard that if you put a board down at night, you can pick up the board in the early morning and they will be there, stuck to the board, and you can "do away" with them.

barefoot!!! What started this thread is I went out on the back porch sock-footed and squish!! I had been bringing in plants from the yard and evidently one had dropped off.............yuck!!!!

Judy,

How my DE is required for your garden? Do you have to spread it over the entire area (I'm sort of imagining a sharp dirt mulch) I know you haven't had a chance to try it, I was just wondering what your instructions are? (I'm having a slug problem, also)

Mary Ev.

I have no instructions I'm just going to make it RAIN Diatomaceous Earth. Kinda like powdering a baby's behind!!! I'm hoping to get a light layer on top of the ground, plants, etc.

The sun is coming out so maybe it will dry up some and I can put it down before it turns really cold Thursday night.

I'm anxious to go DE Dancing!!!

Judy

Judy, don't your snails and slugs kinda slither off when it gets cold? (I know they seem to here....I stop worrying about sprinkling iron phosphate once the hosta leaves start turning. I figure by then, the plants are easing into dormancy anyway, and soon there isn't anything left for the slimy things to munch on. Saving the good stuff for waging war on 'em next spring..... ;o)

I have no idea about slugs and weather, because if I had them in prior years I was not aware of same. All I know for sure is, they are still visible so I thought it would be a good idea to kill what I can NOW. Hopefully that will mean less or none next year.

We get lots of slugs here in Seward. We are a coastal town with lots of rain and cool days. It's probably the Bahamas to those little slugs! Anyway, slugs lay eggs under rocks, old boards, under protected areas. I've never found slug eggs deep in the soil, but I can tell you they lay eggs under clods of dirt or close to the surface. The adults can winter over, as well. I've found some just under the surface of the soil early, early in the spring. They're pretty 'sluggish', but definitely sittin' up and takin' nourishment.

Here's what I do to keep the slugs at bay. First of all, as I said before, I use the Iron phosphate pellets, as Terry does. There is something about it that goos up their insides and they can no longer feed. It may take a week or better for them to die, but in that time they will not be dining on your nice plants. Like the infamous elephant graveyard, the slugs must wander off to some sluggy cemetery, because I don't find dead ones in the beds... I just don't see them at all! If I apply this product every couple weeks, quite sparingly, those areas are without slug problems. I can once again enjoy my Honeoye strawberries without sluggy bites out of them.

I have never used Diatomaceous Earth, so I can't comment on its effectiveness. Our summers are so rainy that anything one might sprinkle on is probably going to get washed away in short order. In drier climes, it may just be what the doctor ordered. However, it still seems much easier to use the iron phosphate, broadcasting it into the beds.

Some people like to keep slugs out of beds by string or taping copper around them, but keep in mind that a slug that will not cross copper to get into a bed surely won't cross copper to get out! Other folks swear by including sacrificial plants in their garden... such as marigolds. I would argue that I do not want them lured into the beds, and once they've finished my marigolds, expended a couple little sluggy burps, they're going to be headed for my lettuce.

I have one hard, fast rule. I do not allow any slug to go unslain. I keep small scissors in my pocket, and if I find slugs, I just snip them in half. I don't have to handle them at all, and if the scissors get gooey, a quick dip into the soil cleans them off. Folks will tell you slugs are attracted by other dead slugs, and I say, 'Come on over and dine on your brothers... have a bit of iron phosphate to season them up a bit!

I also try to make them as uncomfortable as possible. I cut the lower leave from plants so that there are less places for slugs to hide in the heat of the day. I keep the chickweed pulled as much as possible. I think chickweed is their 'salad'. Slugs seem to congregate in groups, and they are usually pretty close to the plant they've staked a claim on. I make em walk a bit.

In the fall, I remove all fallen leaves, trim back the plants, and turn the soil a bit looking for eggs. They are about the size of pearl tapioca and rather opalescent. They are hard to dispose of, since they are pretty resilient. Salt doesn't seem to break them down, and when you try to pop them between your fingers, they shoot out like they've been whacked by Arnold Palmer. I finally decided to just seal them up in a can and leave them out all winter. I didn't open it this summer either. Anybody want it?

Ewwwwwww! I don't know which was worse, the mental image of them spurting out when you try to squish them, or what the contents of that can probably looks like by now.

hehehehehe

should I go open it up, take a picture, and post it Terry?? I should have done that for Halloween!

Please don't do it on my account (*lolol*)

I love your enthusiasim but a rain of DE would break your budget in no time. Get a sugar shaker, or a salt shaker in a pinch, and sprinkle a barrier around the base of your plants. Rain will destroy the effectiveness so it will have to be repeated after every rain or watering unless you use soakers. The worms won't be hurt unless there has been too much water from the soakers that forces them up from the soil. My gardens in Wisconsin were too extensive to use DE for everything so I used several methods. I used thick newspaper mulch and then put a band of DE at the edge of the paper closest to the plant stem. The newspaper sheets were topped with mulch. Mulch must not be up against the plant stem because the slugs love to hide in it. I would go out at night with a flashlight, latex gloves and a bucket of salty water and a popsicle stick. The plant leaves would have slugs by the dozen. I would locate them with the flashlight and pick them by hand or scrape them off into the salt water. It seemed to be that 10:00 until midnight was the best time. Sprinkling salt on a plant from a shaker is not a good idea. The slug dies on the plant and the concentration of salt there will burn the plant tissues.There will be lots of slugs on the underside of the leaves especially in rainy weather. The beds had wood or plastic edging laid flat on the ground and the slugs would certainly seek shelter there during the daylight hours. Larger mulch like unshredded leaves or chunky bark and wood shelter the slugs too much so be sure the mulch you use is fine. It will break down quicker but that just improves the soil.

ROTFLOL !!!

You have just brought hom a very good point!!! I'm normally a nut about cleaning up leaves, weeds etc, but my old heart kicked up on me this summer/fall and I had to forego the chore, that's why all of a sudden I have slugs. They were probably lurking nearby, since we live in the middle of the woods and just used the leaves as cover to move on in!!!

I went in search of their exact location this morning and could not locate them. I'll have to do the DE dance in the moonlight I suppose because I want to be able to powder their little "area" really well!!! (DE dance in the moonlight... I've lost my mind. lol lol)

(I wonder if chickens eat slugs!!)

Yes, they do! Wingnut set her chickens loose in the 'mater patch one day. There's a thread about it here somewhere. Unfortunately, they can do some real damage to your plants, as well. Ducks love slugs, too, but same problem.

I think about moving the chicken pen over to that area for awhile, but of course then there is the problem of them eating the worms. Chickens are just good for lots of things!! I'll have to try to find that thread.

I heard from friends that Guinea Hens do the best job without doing damage. I think they are cuter than chickens too, Jessamine

BUT they are very loud, I need silence once in awhile, they are good for an intruder alarm.

Loud is an understatement. And they fly. So there is no keeping them confined.

I guess it goes to show... their ain't no free lunch... unless you're a guinea hen! I like my Sluggo... I cast it out like chicken feed, the slugs eat it, they crawl off and die... end of story. If birds, cats, dogs, children eat it, they are not harmed. Closest thing to a free lunch I can find... however, a few bantam chickens in the yard would be nice... til the neighbor dogs get em.

OK here is another question, will DE work for squash bugs or squash borers, how about for grubs? If it will what is the application method, If you do powder the garden with it completely will it harm anything?

Thanks

Drew