Looking for seeds/plants of Bay Starvine.

A botany professor and I are looking for seeds or plants of the bay starvine Schisandra glabra: [HYPERLINK@www.sas.usace.army.mil] It is the only native relative of the magnolia vine Schisandra chinensis. It is native to the Southeastern states and is reputed to be hardy in the north but no one seems to have it available. any help would be most appreciated!

Fred, did a search but without much luck to find it for sale. Found this site: http://www.peekaboo.net/archives/cat7/7.html where it mentions this nursery http://www.ridgecrestnursery.com/ as introducing S. glabra 'Crowley's Ridge', but the article is from 1997 and I didn't find it listed on their site. Might be worth a shot to contact them though. Good luck!

Fred,

The probabe reason you are having a hard time finding seeds or plants for this species is because it is a legally protected plant in those native states as well as by the US Fish and Wildlife service and it is in danger of extinction. While I couldn't find any specific legal reference, under the circumstances I would guess that plant and seed collection and exportation is illegal. In Georgia it is classified as S2 meaning Imperiled in state because of rarity (6 to 20 occurrences).
http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/content/specialconcernplants.asp

Your link didn't work, so I looked here: http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/topics.cgi?earl=threat.html I find it to be listed as threatened (in GA). Listed as Endangered (in GA) are plants such as Sarracenia leucophylla, Jeffersonia diphylla, and a few others that are easily purchased. The above mentioned as well as Schisandra are not listed as federally threatened nor endangered: http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/TESSWebpageVipListed?code=F&listings=0#Q For that matter in Ohio where I am: http://www.dnr.ohio.gov/dnap/heritage/Rare_Species2002.htm these plants are state listed: Arctostaphyllos uva-ursi, Acer pennsylvanicum, Chionanthus virginicus, etc. yet I can go to most any garden center and purchase plants of these species. So I don't think it's a matter of endangerment but rather that no one is growing this plant. And quite frankly (my own humble opinion) that being on a states "list" really means very little. Sure Acer pennsylvanicum is endangered in Ohio but in upstate NY it pops up as a weed tree in every dirt road (and I was thrilled to see it there!) Ohio is just at the southernmost part of it's range that's all.

I personally think endangered species should be propagated and grown to help protect the species...Certainly we need to protect the habitats and the plants in situ, but that may not be enough because habitats change. I have a number of rare plants, some of which took me years to find a reputable, legal and ethical source for. Several of my plants were mentioned in an article in the Wall Street Journal last year, and sooner or later I'll find Schisandra glabra...and I'm still looking if anyone out there has one!

Bogman

Chiltern Seeds sell it if you can't find it for trade. http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chilternseeds/pages/moreinfo.asp?Recordid=BFBDIFG

I totally agree that endangered species should be propagated and grown to keep the gene pool going.

Sorry it took me so long to post - I had only the info that Baa has already given you.

I, too, believe that it is important to keep endangered species growing. If it weren't for someone having collect the Franlkinia alatamaha, we would know nothing of this beautiful tree. And, asking for information on an endangered plant does not constitute the desire to go into the wild and rape and pillage, as it were. Most of us understand that. I would love to have some lady's slippers in my garden and know of a large stand of well over a hundred plants. My desire to own this plant doesn't include my gathering the seed from the wild. I think perhaps we should refrain from leaping to assumptions in this.

What assumptions are we talking about?

I agree too that rare natives should be cultivated especially for reintroduction. It's a pretty sad statement that bogman or anyone else have to obtain seeds of natives from another country.

Bogman makes a very good point as to range. There are many species I work with that are rare because they are on the edge of their range or are now not found in the same high numbers in their historical range (mostly because of development). But are very abundant elsewhere in the country. Arctostaphyllos uva-ursi for instance is everywhere here!!
State lists and especially sensitive species lists can be based largely on herbarium records. Many time few records = rare plants until proven otherwise. I can give plenty of instances where the rare designation turns out to be less so after a few years of being in the field and finding the darn things in poorly surveyed areas!!

I do however disagree with not collecting the orchids.
Here would be my criteria for doing so in what i feel is a responsible manner. I use the word 'you' as plural-not singular and not directed to any one person.....

You know what you are doing with respect to collecting the seeds at the proper stage
You have a reputable lab to flask the seeds OR had successfully grown orchids from seed in the past
You are absolutely sure of the ID of the species
You have permission to collect with the necessary permits, OR sure you are breaking no city/county/state/federal laws governing seed collecting
You are sure that this plant is not on any federal or state threatend or endangered list
You do not ‘haybale’ (the term we use for those that rape and pillage every available plant or the seed source) even if it's not for personal gain
You DO NOT sell any offspring or seeds, or make any money by selling this plant

If you can meet this criteria, then I say go for it and propagate the species. And don't feel bad about doing so and contributing back to the population by increasing it even if it's in your own yard.








This message was edited Nov 30, 2004 9:18 PM

This message was edited Nov 30, 2004 9:24 PM

Caron

We may have disagreed in the past, but what you've said is right on!

I flask native orchids when I have time, I get my seed from plants in my garden, friends, both here and abroad, and from the Orchid Seedbank Project http://members.cox.net/ahicks51/osp/

It's all about being responsible. Here's a picture also of Platantheras ciliaris and integrilabia. I got good seed from both of these species this year (in my bog). These 2 species bloom from seed is 2-3 years out of flask.

I did, by the way check out the link to the British seed co. They have only S. chinensis Which I already have, and enjoy. again I'm looking for the only species of the genus native to the US Schisandra glabra.

Thanks

This message was edited Dec 1, 2004 5:35 PM

Sweet, Bogman!!
You flask orchids at home??
Thanks for posting the link it looks really interesting!! Had no idea they were around.