deer strips live oak bark

A deer has stripped bark off the trunk of my seven foot live oak. Two days ago, a call-in host recommended that I prevent such by driving three "T" posts near the trunk. Needless to say, I was too late in responding.

The wound (missing bark area) encircles the tree and is four inches long.

How can I dress the wound or is it too late for any treatment?

Thanks,
Pops

Pops, I would like an answer to that one too! Sunday night a deer stripped bark off a 4ft. White Oak and also broke limbs off a 10 ft. Fruit Cocktail Tree (and ate all the flowers off the Lantana!). A few months ago I saw a "motion detector water sprinkler" that sprays the deer, rabbits, etc when they come near. Now I can't find the catalogue I found it in. If anyone sees one or knows where to find one, let me know!

Thanks,
Cynthia


Nevermind! The Gardener's Supply book came in the mail today & I found it!
Still waiting for the other answer.

This message was edited Oct 13, 2004 12:49 PM

Pops would you please post a photo of your damage.
Sadly, I think your tree has just been successfully girdled. I know this type of damage all too well. That exposed area has already allowed pathogens to enter and has already prohibited the conveyence of nutrients. Please post a photo of the damage to your cambian layer. The cambian layer is directly under the bark.
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/5663/news_resources/info_protectTrees.html

Please take a moment to read this-
http://www.wvu.edu/~exten/infores/pubs/pest/deer820.pdf

Here is a site that may help you gain a little insight into the issues and provide a few ideas of how you might protect your trees in the future-
http://www.naturalresources.umd.edu/Pages/Deer_Paper.html

I think it is too late to "dress the wound" and even if it wasn't too late, a 4" stripped ring around a tree, such as what you described, is a death sentence in my opinion. The wound encircles the tree. I am afraid the damage is irreversible at this time but perhaps there are those who have had a success out there in addressing this type of damage who could post how they saved a tree in this condition.

Cynthia, please hold off on the scarecrow motion detector water sprinkler. At best, it would only provide temporary relief until as such time as the deer became desensitized to it.

I will try to bookmark this thread and tomorrow when there is more light, I will photograph some of my tree shelters if you would like. Let me know.

I feel for both of you.

I really should have referred you to this article which ever so eloquently addresses the issues of deer-
http://www.chicagowildernessmag.com/issues/fall2003/deerdilemma.html

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, it's been a busy week. I would like to see your tree shelters! As for now, my DH has put up an orange constuction fence around one of the beds and trees. We counted fifteen deer about 100 yds. from the front yard the other night! I know the deer will stop stripping & "rubbing" the trees after the rut, but I'm sure they will continue to eat the leaves and flowers. Thanks for the links too!

Hi mydaisy, It's a little too dark to get a photo. I actually tried and the flash isn't strong enough but here's a link to the manufacturer of my tree shelters-
http://www.treepro.com/id82.html
I purchase their Miracle Tubes. I do not purchase their stakes in favor of buying bamboo in bulk which is much more affordable.

Here's another link for you as it sounds as if you have major deer problems like me-
http://www.ecostudies.org/FTGG/FTGG-03-03-03.html

One problem on the horizon for you.. the deer have an incredibly well adapted digestive system. In late spring, summer, and early fall they are able to eat leaves and flowers and such. Right about this time of year when deciduous trees are dropping leaves and flowers have little left but spent blooms, their digestive track is "switching over" to being able to handle bark and twigs. Now isn't that a really special adaptation. It'll switch back over come spring time just in time to revert back to being able to digest leaves and flowers.

Hi Pops, so glad to hear you ordered some Miracle Tubes. They are sort of pricey but they definitely can minimize future damage. There are other products out there for larger diameter trees.

You mentioned oak wilt to me. The pathogen being held responsible for this is Phytophthora ramorum. I am providing you with a link to the best overall web site I have found on oak wilt. Pay particular attention to vectors. If I am not mistaken, numerous azaleas and rhodos from Monrovia were found to have been carriers of the pathogen. I have no doubt there were many other nurseries. I have many oaks on my property and I will not purchase any rhodos or azaleas from that region until at such time as they get a handle on the situation. Camellias, which I do not grow here, were also specifically mentioned.

http://www.suddenoakdeath.org/

I am thinking your tree has been stressed beyond your wildest imagination and a stressed tree is a tree that will most probably be attacked even if a wound is dressed. Sometimes, it is best to remove them so as not to attract problems. When something like this happens over here, we burn the tree. There is a member out there in the forums who goes by the name of Treelover or similar. I hope he sees this thread and comments. Gosh, I really feel for you Pops.

Were you aware there is a Live Oak Society?
http://www.louisianagardenclubs.org/pages/oak.htm
If you contact them with specific questions, they are extremely responsive. I have dealt with their chairman before and this woman is absolutely a pleasure and so intensely knowledgeable about Live Oaks. I suggest this because I was sort of hoping you might be able to get more information on the future of your girdled oak.

If the bark has been removed from around the entire trunk, then the tree is going to die from that point up - maybe.

It really depends on how deep the deer damaged the tree? If just the outer bark was removed and the cambium was undamaged, then the tree should be fine. If the cambium was damaged all around the trunk of the tree, then the tree is a goner. Sorry.

The tree won't die overnight, but the tree will end up dying.
Mike

I can't advise you what to do with your tree or what diseases you could get because of the damage. Just want to relate a similar thing. We planted a young sugar maple three years ago and it was fine over the first winter, but last winter the rabbits or a woodchuck ate the bark off and girdled it about fourteen inches up for about six inches. By the end of summer the top part of the tree was dead, but it has sent out three shoots from below. I am going to let these grow for a season or two and then pick one as the leader. It may not work, but thought it worth a try. Good luck with yours.

echoes

Glad I found this thread, although I think I'm more in the market for sympathy than advice. Here's a 3 or 4 year old Japanese tree lilac that had a large amount of its bark rubbed off a couple of nights ago. Nearly 3 feet of bark were removed 3/4 of the way around the trunk. Our county Extension agent says all it takes is one strip of live bark to keep the tree going---but the voice of experience says that it might survive and struggle a couple years, but will never recover enough to be what we want. I think we will probably replace it. It's only about 25 feet from our kitchen window and highly visible.

I appreciated the links on dealing with wildlife. We need to take some measures to protect our other tree. (See next post.)

The same day we discovered the damage above, we found this. This was a tree form peegee hydrangea we planted last year. No hope for it!

Hey! What are you doing sneaking around taking photos in my yard! Shame on you! Just teasing with you.

Oh MartyJo, I feel for you more than you can ever know. You poor baby!

Just a comment here but... what planet is your County Extension Agent from? Did he/she see your photos before he/she stated that "all it takes is one strip of live bark to keep the tree going"? If you are going to leave it in the ground, I'd love to know if it leafs out next spring. Question of the hour... did you notice a link above to Tree Pro? Everything I have going into the ground is going into Miracle Tubes or is getting staked with chicken wire. I had a girfriend here once who was admiring a pond right up by my front door and she pointed out to me that I had deer tracks from Momma and her baby walking straight up the side walk and right to the front door. I think I about wanted to puke. They had walked through freshly dug beds of iris and they had muddy little hooves.

I wonder if we could work on informing each other about all types of plants trees that work and dont work in our garden I live inL.I. and am beginning a garden and have a problem with deer. have much infor on paper what will work, but nothing that did work or did work, would save a lot of problems.

thank you larry, goldieloks12000

Fence in your property using at least a 10' fence with barbed wire at the top. I am of the opinion there is no such thing as a deer resistant plant any longer. I feel for you. Many of us struggle with the same issues. Look closely at MartyJo's photos. Depressing isn't it. I have been putting metal stakes up with chicken wire and covering enclosures with fruit tree netting. I'm at a loss myself as to what can be done other than to sue tree shelters and tubes. .

Support hunters and the NRA?

Equilibrium, I did read all the links you've posted, with interest. I take that use you use the preformed tubes, rather than the ones that come flat? Reading and looking at the pictures (I wish there were more!) I gathered that these are intended for very small trees, if you have to put them on over the top of the tree? Our tree lilac was too tall and I suspect the crowns of both trees were too large to permit that. And the remaining trees that I'd want to protect are definitely too large. Your comment about the fence was, sadly, I fear all too true. Needless to say, I'm less than enthused about doing that. At present we have far from attractive circles of wire fencing around the tree we perceive as most vulnerable. That will stop the rubbing, but isn't probably high enough to prevent browsing. The attacks on our garden have gotten much worse in the last two years, undoubtedly part of the syndrome that your other links describe.

Thanks for your input, and my sympathy back at ya'.

I have a homeowner's association that does not allow fencing. There are many HO associations that disallow fencing in my County. I use the Miracle Tubes for the smaller diameter saplings. Larger trees you almost have to go with the style that is flat that one sort of "assembles" on the tree and then one can use twist ties to secure them. I have about a hundred of those also. What I have found is that there are times when even the tubes are nothing more than great big mouth watering deer treesicles because all the leaves start coming out the top BUT... the trunk is protected so the tree will, more often than not, survive. The white cedars and many shrubs pose a unique situation and we use stakes and chicken wire around them up about 3' with a chicken wire top. This past spring I had to go running after a deer that had stuck her nose down inside a decent sized wire mesh tube. It got stuck on her head. She finally got it off but I don't use those any longer. It had been my intent to try to knock it off. Why I thought I'd be able to catch up with her is beyond me. Really freaked out the animal so I don't particularly care for that particular style. Besides which, they are too low to the ground and deer can all too easily stick their heads down into that brand of tube and chow down.

Back to the Miracle Tubes, I have been able to get the 48" MTs down and around fruit trees by compressing all the branches together while my husband slid the tubes down. Pain in the rear if you ask me but it was all I had at them time. Best to go with the other style.

Your "far from attractive circles of wire fencing" are effective. You will have trees in the future. There are others who are unwilling to put up with the eyesore and if they have an over abunance of deer in the area, they will be sorry. I was one of those people. Live and Learn because exclusion fencing is really about all that works.

Thanks for your sympathy MartyJo, I appreciate it. Here's something I wrote a while ago that I'd like to share with you. This sums up how I feel about the deer.

"So and so asked a legitimate question... "What does deer control have to do with wildlife gardening?"

"Deer populations are out of control and culling is desperately needed to reduce their numbers to that which would insure their health, our land's health, and our health. Deer just don't have any natural predators left other than vehicles and what with chronic wasting disease, some hunters aren't even that interested in them any longer. In the long run, it might not be in the best interests of the deer, and definitely not for native plants, for humans to intervene with anything from the local feedstore. I am told deer are now determining what species live or die and have read many articles substantiating this definitively. So sad that we have reduced their habitat and that we collectively have not diligently and conscientiously removed non native exotics that out compete native flora from the habitat that does remain. It is sort of a vicious circle... the deer mow down the native plants that they can digest and that makes way for invasives to get an even stronger foothold which further degrades our land. We have done this to the deer and the deer in return are wiping out other species of flora and fauna. We can all "indirectly" feed the deer and nurse our lands back to health or at least restore some semblance of balance which we are sorely lacking... there are just more ways than tossing out feed and a salt block to do so."
"The deer damage results in a reduced structure and quality of woodland which has a direct impact on the number of small mammals and birds in the area that rely upon the vegetation for food. Starlings, cane toads, cats, and many others are also negatively impacting the environment. Over time, extinction for many species of animal and plant will be inevitable."
Deer are selective browsers and their diet varies from season to season prohibiting natural regeneration of our lands. Density reports I have read state that deer populations are 10x the numbers that could insure the restoration of balance requisite to support native species of flora and fauna to include deer. Deer populations have exploded to the point that they, and they alone, are now determining which species of flora and fauna survive.
http://www.forestry.gov.uk/website/PDF.nsf/pdf/fcin35.pdf/$FILE/fcin35.pdf
A few noteworthy concepts-
1) Deer browsing sets the stage for increases in exotic plant populations—like purple loosestrife and wild mustard—“by creating desirable conditions through disturbance and the transportation of seeds to uninfested areas"
2) Birds depend on lower canopy or ground level nesting habitats which are currently under siege by deer. Birds are left vulnerable to predators when they have no option other than to select alternate nesting areas.
3) Small mammals and birds are being outcompeted to the brink of extinction by deer for food like acorns. The Blue Jay that sustains itself at my bird feeder comes to mind as the deer have eaten all the small acorns that were a major portion of his diet.
4) Many butterflies survive exclusively on plant materials being obliterated by deer.
5) Deer fecal matter is beginning to contaminate surface water supplies.
6) Many deer starve to death over the winters because their habitat requirements are no longer able to be met even at the expense of other flora and fauna.
When deer wipe out vegetation, along with that vegetation goes many insects that small mammals, birds, and reptiles depend upon for survival. Deer are voracious consumers of native vegetation. When they browse to the point that invasives take over or to the point that an area looks like a park, this should be a clue that we need to take a more aggressive approach to controlling their numbers. All species of life need food, water, shelter, and space. Deer are systematically destroying native species and the last time I checked… I saw no way to make deer want to eat buckthorn berries, phragmites, burning bushes, honeysuckle, reed canary grass, or any of the other exotic invasives that we have allowed to scourge our lands. Bottom line is that wildlife can’t survive unless their habitat requirements are met. If the deer keep wiping out the habitat… what’s going to be left to sustain other species to include their own. There will be no diversity left.
Damage to expensive landscaping, exposure to Lyme disease, and auto collisions are really insignificant in the larger scheme of things. If hundreds of thousands of deer are not eradicated and if we don't start addressing the exotic/invasive issue wholeheartedly, I suspect we are in for children and grandchildren who really will be viewing many species of flora and fauna from picture books.
I personally feel extensive culling of does is the way to go but how best to go about doing this is beyond me given so many people are opposed to sharp shooters and hunters. I rather liked so and so's suggestion that a return to venison as a commodity may be in order. Reintroduction of carnivores- I'd support that in a heart beat. Poisoning the deer... not only unorthodox but barbaric and I would hope we wouldn't stoop to that level. Planting of deer resistant plants merely starves them out over the long run. Environmental estrogens appear to do more damage than good. It's ultimately going to be a combination of approaches, which may just include massive plantings of natives (the deer can't eat them all), that's going to fix this mess. What isn't a good approach is silencing people who do not think the way we do. This deer population is so out of control that it is going to take the collective efforts of all of us... each doing what is within our own comfort zone... to restore the balance."

Best wishes with your trees! I'm rooting for you MartyJo!

I hear ya! Fortunately our municipality has decided that we will have some culling. Water in your boot and prickles on your bummer to those that put out feed for them in a populated area.

A new update for my deer problem. Just so you get the picture, my family lives on 52 acres in rural...& I mean RURAL East Texas. The deer are all over the place! My husband, myself, and my son all hunt. We are only allowed to harvest 3 deer per year (one buck and two does). The bag limit differs with counties. Of course this doesn't even touch the deer population in our area.

We built our house this spring, moved in June. The top of the hill where the house is had no trees. I planted about 30 different types on the 5 acre yard. The orange constuction fence is working, although it is not very attractive. I really don't care about that, I'd rather have the trees live! No one can see it anyway, except company! (and they understand).

We also planted winter crops at 4 different locations throughout the property, all far from the yard. Oats, clover, rape, kale, peas,etc. This seems to keep the deer happy and out of my yard (*and the fence rows, as we try to let them grow up for the quail, etc.)
Each food plot is 1/2-2 acres.

It seems to be working for me! No more nibbles on the hibiscus and the lantana!