imidacloprid warning

We read about this wonderful systemic chemical because of a horrendous white fly problem, then wondered about the old woman swallowing a spider.

If the chemical kills systemically, won't the parasite bugs that die within those five days be poison to the birds, my hummers and bees? And earthworms so I went searching.

From a page at http://131.104.74.73/archives/agnet/2001/4-2001/ag-04-03-01-01.txt I read:
Besides the warning about bees, Bayer (the maker of imidacloprid) says imidacloprid is toxic to birds and highly toxic to aquatic invertebrates, is persistent in soils, has a high potential for carryover, and demonstrates the properties and characteristics associated with chemicals detected in groundwater.
Labchuk was further cited as saying that other research shows imidicloprid is extremely toxic to earthworms, adding, "The warning about bees is fairly standard on many insecticide labels -- after all, bees are insects. But as it turns out, imidacloprid appears to be much more insidious than therun-of-the-mill insecticide that simply kills the bee on contact."

Howdy Ladyanne, its me again. I really worry about bug chemicals and what they do to the 2nd step in the food chain. Frogs with too many or too few legs. Blue birds almost extinct from eating mosquitos drugged with DDT. And I happen to have a whole bevvy of one inch long baby camelions. I came home before "Francis" and caught two of the tiny boogers sunning on my flat of mums. They will eat alot of bad critters. have you tried misting them with soapy water? Or insecticidal soap? I havent figured out why we need more bugs than a good frog, bird, or lizard can eat. Good luck.

Hi ladyanne
the link does not work.....

Caron, I don't know why that did not work, several links I have posted have done that. Bummer, I didn't save it here, I am sorry! I found it surfing with the chemical names. I think.

Sugar, we took the chemicals back and lived with the whiteflies until the season was over. I just could not take the chance and never got any kind of satisfactory answer about if it was a primary or secondary. It really didn't matter anyway, I prefer keeping our yard as spray free as humanly possible. This year we will be on the lookout for early signs and do some real quick natural preventions!

Ugh, my hot button is chemicals. Fungicides I blatantly will never use. I can honestly say I don't use insecticides over here any longer either. I do use herbicides sparingly as a last resort and try to avoid them whenever possible. Imidacloprid is nondiscriminatory so YES... it could have conceivably taken out a multitude of other critters to include beneficial insects. Happens over in our area all the time when people try to poison the feral and stray cats. The poisoned cat goes off to die and gets eaten by a vulture or a coyote and then the vulture or the coyote turns up dead. Same deal with all the people using D-Con for rat and mice control.

Here's something that I wrote that you might be interested in-
"Those using fungicides might want to check the active ingredients. Captan is often used. Any search should yield results that are cause for concern.
http://www.goforgreen.ca/gardening/Factsheets/Fact3.htm
Chemical pesticides, herbicides and fungicides are engineered to kill--that's their purpose. Some are broad-spectrum poisons, which kill a wide range of living organisms, others are targeted to specific species. Often, when we're focused on a particular problem in the garden--weeds, for example--we can lose sight of the other effects garden chemicals might have. Some chemicals, for example, leach into the soil and groundwater, leaving toxic residues. Others may affect non-target species: the chemicals we use to control an unwanted pest may also kill butterflies, for example.
In nature, you can't tinker with one small piece of the puzzle without having an impact--sometimes positive, usually negative--on many other areas--often without realizing it. That's a potentially alarming responsibility for each of us to shoulder, but it's a basic ecological fact. And it's also what makes the ecological web of connections between all life forms so fascinating and intricate! "

http://www.goforgreen.ca/gardening/Factsheets/Fact3.htm a quote from here-

"Working With Nature

There's a certain degree of irony in the fact that many common garden practices actually create pest, weed and disease problems in the first place. Cutting the grass too low, for example, encourages weeds to grow. And frequent, shallow lawn waterings stress the lawn, making it less drought tolerant and more sensitive to pest attack.

Common exotic plants in the garden, too, need more coddling and are more vulnerable to pests and diseases because these plants are not adapted to the natural conditions. Native plants, on the other hand, are adapted to the environment (and thus tend to be hardier in the garden, requiring no chemical maintenance).
Follow nature's lead by gardening with native plants, and you won't need to use chemicals."

Wish that "Follow nature's lead" worked for white flies, lol....sigh...at least we will be prepared for them next year and get them fast with leaf removal! Indy is my rat and mouse control, and boy, does he do his job!

ladyanne,

The hyper link you posted to the site http://131.104.74.73/ requires a login to access the particular page you tried to hyper link. Therefore, anybody trying to use a link like that other than you would get an access error since they are not you and are not logged into the site.

Well actually I do think "Follow nature's lead" applies to white flies since as I understand it their preferred food source is house plants which most off are house plants by the vary nature of them being exotics and non native to the areas they are kept in.

We had them heavily on the morning glories, bear's breech and the hollyhocks, all native and outodoor plants, which is standard, but this year we had them move to almost everything in the yard! None of the exotics or house plants were affected at all, and they were outside. It was at an incredible level, the local ag people said they had many reports of invasions despite their importing a particular wasp to help with the problem. Truly an odd year.

He he he... get yourselves a few carnivorous and insectivorous plants ladies! Running for cover!

LOL!! You nut. Will the carnivorous plants eat all the lady bugs and mantis we bring in? Golly.....

Depends on what type of a CP. Praying Mantids are a tad too large for most species and they can easily free themselves from the sticky stuff. White flies on the other hand would be toast I'm afraid as would gnats and drum roll please....

MOSQUITOES

Oh the dreaded mosquit!!! I have killed every single carnivorous I have ever bought. Maybbeeeee, I will try again,

Guess I have a lot to learn. I thought Bear-Breach (Acanthus) was native to the Mediterrainian area as well as hollyhocks by way of England. Here in Texas morning glories are bigger pests than white flies LOL

Oh, Planter, we all have lots and lots to learn. If we don't, we might as well give it up. And don't get me wrong on that MG. This is one invasive plant. Ok, seven. We just love them and let them go bananas until one day I yell, "That's IT!" and start a rippin'. It's usually the day I find perenial morning glory planted in the waaay back has grown under and across the house and is creeping through a heat vent in the front bedroom!!! The hummers and the bees love them, and really, so do I. The nursery way in the back is covered with annual MGs. Bear's Breech is almost as bad but equally beautiful if the snails haven't gotten to it yet. You can hack away at the roots all you want and the plant just pops back up, smiling and grinning, as green and as lovely as anything in the yards. Want some? Lots? I promise to wash off all the snails and white flies first.

He he he! I'm not nuts... I got interested in bat conservation because my entire Village (thousands of acres) decided to ban spraying for mosquitoes indefinitely. It was a heated debate with record turnout. I am told the people who wanted mosquito control lost by a few votes. Can't say as I had the pleasure of being a part of the process as I steer clear of the Village Hall. I also can't say that I blame those who voted for discontinuing to spray now that I know all the facts but it sure does make one reach out desperately in search of alternative means to control them or else one will find the little buggers flying in formation over one's head and ready to attack on a moment's notice of exposed flesh. I'm also putting up a martin house in hopes that it will get occupied with skeeter loving martins some day. Remember ladies... every mosquito you slap silly is one less mosquito to go on and breed to increasingly make your life miserable.

My daughter's boyfriend insists that if a mosquit bites you on the arm and you flex your muscle, he will explode. I have never tried it, my reactions are tooooo great. WHACK!!!!

We have built bat houses, and no bats. Gives pause to "Build it and he will come." Bummer.

Build it and they will come...
Most assuredly for ponds but not necessarily so for bat houses. I was motivated to learn about them so what can I say. Can you post a photo of your bat hosue and where it is located? I think I might just be able to solve the mystery of your little vacancy issues. The rest will be up to you!

Unfortunately, it's WAY up in a Eucalyptus, and there is no way I am going up there. I made someone else hang it. We followed bat house specifications, even after I was told we don't have bats here, in our area. Guess we don't have them in town. Sigh....

Over in your neck of the woods you do actually have bats to the best of my knowledge and ten to one odds you are even in a fly way. I'm thinking that the issue is where you hung the bat house.... up in a tree. Bat houses need to be at an elevation of at least 20', preferably 25'. The best location would be under the eaves facing sw or se. I believe the height of the bat house will vary from species to species but about 20’ seems to be the minimum for all. The 20 foot clearance underneath is required in order for them to release from their upside-down position, unfurl their wings, and to attain lift. Bats don't like to have to negotiate branches and things when they're flying in so you might want to keep the bathouses out of trees and away from tree lines and such.

I love bats! Bats eats mosquitoes! Bats are my friends!

ladyannne.....I will take your bear's breech only if you take my canna, my vinca, my morning glory, AND my pampas grass (I drive a pretty hard bargain don't I?) LOL

Cringing here, the Pampas? Oh no, do I HAVE to? LOL!!! Wait, wait, that's, umm...four for one. No fair!!

Equil, it IS 25 feet up, lol!!! 24, actually.

It's in a Eucalyptus tree though. If you want them to be occupied, you almost have to mount them up under the eaves of your home or on a separate pole free of navigable obstructions. The branches of the trees move with breezes and this basically messes them up.

Here's a nice site that may or may not address the issue-
http://www.batcon.org/

Aren't they just the cutest little critters?

Oh well, we might have to start from scratch again. It was placed on a 150 year old solid trunk, so we thought that would work. I will check out the link - thank youuuu!!

sounds fair to me *innocent look* ;-)

did somebody say bats? Yes we definitely have bats http://www.batcon.org/discover/congress.html

Our professional ice hockey team is even name the Ice Bats.

I have sooo many projects going, but I would like to find time to do the bat house over again. And research it more! Ok, Planter, shipping ALL the Bear's Breech except my Mama plant, all 12 plants, heh...heh.....

I'll see your Breech and raise ya 5 red cannas, 4 tons of vinca, 3 morning glory, 2 bags of nut grass, and pampas with big white plumes.

hmmmmmm maybe we should create the 12 Days of Invasives

Now wait just one minute here!
Who started this game without me!
All of you out there-
I'm raising you both
3 acres of European phragmites, reed canary grass, and narrow leaf cattail
I'm thinking that would be worth about 45+ semis, you two figure out the tonnage as my math is horrible.

I don't know what the heck that Bear's Breech is but I know what the morning glory is and I have experience with that little puppy so I fear no evil with that or the vinca. Now the canna... I dunno know about that... I could be biting off my nose to spite my face. Been there done that before.

Back to the bathouses.. they're really nothing more than incubators so in warmer climes you would want to paint them a reflective color such as a dove gray. All said and done, your bat house might never be occupied if they don't find you.

Cannas are both shameless and ruthless. They multiply shamelessly and refuse to die ruthlessly. They are like worms.....hack one into a dozen pieces and you don't have one dead canna, you have 12 lives ones going neener neener neener....ya missed me.

I will have to remember that one. I think I will keep my 3 acres of crud. The visual you provided me has made me go into retreat mode.

You're not parnoid, canna really ARE out to get you.......MUHAHAHAHAHA!

They are now are they! I had to have my husband read your posts here as I felt he needed a good laugh at somebody else's expense other than ours. We are laughing with you not at you. We do not have canna.

Happy to oblige :-)

I keep my canna (as in singular) in a pot. Nanner, nanner. (Californian for neener, neener) I never could play poker, and am, I think 'folding" my plants, so to speak? LOL!! I did find out that one banana tree in 2002 means six in 2004. Ye gads and little fishes, we are going to have a banana forest next year?

Equil, Bear's Breech is truly lovely. Until the snails get it. Or the whiteflies. Or the winter. In the spring it has these huge white flower stalks tinged in blue. The picture started as one (count them, one) plant and has been hacked down and apart every summer for five or six years. This is in it's smaller spring stage, it's truly beautiful and a wonderous filler.

That is bear's breeches? The leaf doesn't look right to me, but I would love to find some leaves like that for the cement leaf birdbath project. Latin name?

Acanthus mollis. The leaves can be extremely large, around two feet. There are some lovely pictures of the flower stalks on the PDB.

Thank you!