a relativity theory...

I am trying to utilize a large area under oak trees in Crete. Older people in the area say that nothing grows under the oaks, but I noticed that oaks here are not as huge or as dense as in England, and I have been successful with 3 gardenias, 2 hydrangeas, an aquilegia and a pomegranate shrub. They all get SOME sunlight, generally less than 2hrs/day.

I would like to ask what particular plants are considered "shady" even in zones 4 - 6?
Will the ones that need sunshine there make it in the shade here?

Dimitri

I threw some tall yellow Iris into a shady spot under the pine trees that rooted and bloom in about 2 hours shade a day, I am in a different zone though so I am not certain what will work for you. But if the Aquilea and hydrangeas do ok I would think that a lot of shade lovers could do well. Have you tried Fuscias! They can take a lot of heat in shade and a lot of cold too!

Violets will grow under oak and are very hardy. Our violets tolerate not only damp shade but the very dry shade under our pear tree. The pear is over 50 years old and has a very dense canopy, forget me nots, cowslips and other primulas, lesser celendine (I collect different forms of celendines), foxgloves, cyclamen and gallium all do well in these conditions. Dimitri you must have a wonderful garden, I would like to visit Crete in the future.

We have an area in the yard called "The Oak Tree Garden" We have an oakleaf hydrangea, a japanese Kerrara, english ivy, hostas, low growing sedum, ajuga, heuchera, common daylilies, liriope all planted under a huge very old oak tree. It is a lovely area, one of my favorites.

Baa,
the violets seem a very interesting idea.
We have some wonderful flowers here called violets, but they are such sun-drinkers (a poetic expression, not mine)
that most probably your violets are something else. Please send some seeds if and when you have. I would also like to know what celendines are.
Our garden is not much of a garden, at least not by the british standards. Yet, my wife and I spend countless hours enjoying and growing all sorts of plants we can lay our hands on.
If you come to Crete, let me know and perhaps you could come and see for yourself.
Greetings
Dimitri

Dimitri

Sorry I should really use the botanical names. Lesser celendines are Ranunculus ficaria, a weed that runs all over the place but mutates into different forms, which are less invasive, some have black leaves, some double white flowers but there are too many to list. The violets are viola odorata, v. sororia, v. jooi and many more. They all tolerate sun and shade, I have a few seeds of V. cornuta 'alba'and some which are possibly V. oderata but a friend collected them on holiday in Spain so I'm not sure, I may have some on the other violets as they have just finished flowering here. If I find them out I'll be happy to send you some. And thank you for your kind invitation, I may take you up on it :)

HI Baa, !!

ranunculus are of no interest to me, while several violas would be a nice idea. If and when, I 'd like a few seeds from several types of viola, please.

What shall I do in return??
I 'll throw an idea: dracunculus vulgaris - can you trace anything about it?? It is the most dramatic shade plant I ever saw. The seeds are maturing right now, it could be another month until they are ready, and it will be a good 2 - 3 years until you see aflower, but the leaves only will compensate enough. It will be easy to send some. Let me know.
Dimitri

Hi Dimitri

I'll start collecting the seeds when the pods have ripened unless Crete will accept small live violets from England?

The Dranunculus sounds wonderful

Deal!!
There is no customs barrier between UK and Greece, but live violas will not make it from UK to GR in this heat.
Seeds will be fine, thank you.
Dimitri

Dimitri,

You grow your pomegranate in shade? I plant mine in full sun, about 10 hours a day.

Dimitri

Please snd me a mail in a couple of weeks to remind me and I'll colect the (hopefully by then) ripe seeds for you.

Tim,
there is sun and there is sun. When you see the flowers whitened from the sunlight, you start thinking that your luminosity may prove adequate in the shade (this is partial and not under huge thick foliage). This is why I named this thread "relativity", to make a point.

Baa,
many thanks again. you will hear from me soon.

Dimitri

Dimitri
Point taken. :)

Tim,

I would be grateful iff you gave me some info re. your flora there, and what is your rainfall roughly between June and October??
thanks
Dimitri

dimitri
i am intrigued with the dracunculis vulgaris. but one problem it is pollinated by flies will this make my fly problem worse or does the plant keep the flies from giving us a problem? how far do you have it planted from you house? i was thinking about putting it in the trees behind my house but with the smell i think i'll put them farther away. we get fly parasites to control our population now. so will this plant help or hinder?
farmgirl21

From what I know, there is no fly problem with the black type that I have (haighr has a brown huge flower - type that smells as well. I never noticed any smell.
My flowers grow in the shade and coolness under the cavities of ancient olive trees - I think a flower bed somehow protected from light extremes, frost and wind will serve you well.
So, judge for yourself, really.
Dimitri