fertilizer for tomatoes

i really want to have a teriffic garden this year. i normally use miricle grow and apply it every other week. today i started heirloom tomato seeds for the first time. the package says to give it plenty of phosphrous. can anyone recommend a good fertilizer for my tomatoes?? is a water soluble one better that one that you sprinkle onto the ground and then water into the soil. caroline and all the rest of you just jump in and let me know what you use. after seeing all the beautiful pics of everyones tomatoes i just had to try someting new instead of throwing them into the ground and hoping for the best.

Herb, I agree, and I'm glad you brought this question up. I want to add one thing and then I'll let the others chime in because I'm new(Rookie) to the game. For veggies like eggplant, peppers, and of course, tomatoes, what is the recommended # system? I'm talking about or asking in regards to 12-10-5, 10-10-10, etc. Herb, sorry to steal some of your thunder. Thanx, Danny

Good Question Herbie --- Too much nitrogen and you get beautiful foilage but no fruit. I use a mix of 8-15-10. I'm far from a PRO but I do ok. Let's see what the others have to say!

Contrary to what many folks say, tomatoes are NOT heavy feeders. Too much fertilizer and it causes the plants to grow too rapidly which is a stress and thus predisposes them to BER and also foliage diseases and also can actually inhibit blossom formation and fruit set b/c you're keeping them in a vegetative cycle and not allowing them to go into the sexual cycle of blossom formation and fruit set.

At my 40 min away garden Charlie fertilizes as I did when I had my own field and he fertilizes just two times per season. Once when they are about 2-3 weeks old inground and once when they are just starting to set fruit.

No sense telling you what strength fertilizer he uses since his is done mechanically, but I would use and did use either triple 10 or 5/10/10.

When growing my own, if the season was wet I'd give them a foliar spray of seaweed or fish emulsion later in the seasn b/c at that point there was no way I could get near the plants to use granular fertilizer.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn

danny, tplant, carolyn - thank you for your insight into this subject.

That helps and some, Dr.C, I'm glad you touched on the foliar spray topic. I've read a lot about spraying the leaves, and learned that most to everything should be done below or on the surface, so I was confussed( My term for confused, from Dr. Zitter, my Organic Chem Prof. and what else is new.) What is the purpose or reasoning behind feeding the foliage? Also, if you need any help harvesting all your tomatoes, I have some time off in the summer between my spring and fall semester, I would love to come out to NY, and help. What you could teach me in a day, most could not, in a life-time. Danny

carolyn - did i mention that the seed starting formula i am using has no fertilizer in it. should i add a little spray of miracle grow when i transplant to 4 inch pots and then again when i put into garden??? or should i just wait until they are in the garden for 2 weeks before putting down the triple 10 fertilizer. just want to get this straight. anyone with comments please let me hear from you. thanks again to all of you. this truly is a friendly place.

Another thing I have heard that is good to do, is apply the fertilizer in a perimeter around the plant about 7 to 10 inches away from the main stem. I have tried this, and it does seem to help. One year I used steer manure that way and it did great. I was told never put it "too close" to the main stem, as it will get too much, too fast. Carolyn? What do you think?

Herbie and Karrie

Herbie,

After transplanting from the seedling tray to cells you can spray with VERY dilute MG a couple of times until the plants are hardened off and put outside.

Do I get the impressions that you want to use only MG as a foliar feed for the entire season?

Karrie, what you describe is called side dressing and IS the way one applies granular fertilizer to tomatoes, etc. It'a big waste of fertilizer to incorporate it generally into the entire garden.

When side dressing I just take a handful of fertilizer and circle the plants, then come back with a hoe and work it in since you don't want rain to cause splashback of fertilizer up to the foliage.

As to manure, I assume you're talking very aged steer manure. If so, it really should be incorporated into the planting hole or some do use it just around the plant and work it in well. If it's aged as it should be there should be no problem with it being what's called too hot and thus detrimantal to stems, etc.

My friend Steve uses it for mulch and then tops it off with grass clippings.

Carolyn

I don't know if what i do is the best but works for me. In the greenhouse on my seedlings, I use 1/4 strenghth 20-20-20 when ever i water anything. just keep my 1 gal. milk jugs filled with that mix and use whenever i water. After the tomatoes have been transp. to 4" pots and are outside, which here has been outside for 2 weeks, I feed with fish fert. when I water of some AlgoFlash fert. I have had one early tomato planted out under green plastic hotkap for 10 days. it is looking good.

Now as for the rest of my 7 varieties of tom., the holes are dug, shovel wide and two feet deep. A shove full of shreds (that is misc. branches etc, that have been put through my shredder) in bottom of hole, a shovel full of composted steer manure, next and mixed up. Next I will put in some of the dirt removed from hole mixed with organic 9-3-4 fert., Planters11, a tiny bit of mychorrizae powder, some YUM YUM mix from High Country Gardens, mix that all together then make a hole deep enough with small shovel to put tomato plant down in up to lowest leaves, or even remove lower leaves and plant.

I may side dress middle of season with some more 9-3-4 organic. Also mulch with my homemade compost. I grow all my tomatoes in hog wire cages. Donna

Donna,

Off hand I'd say you don't have much faith in the inherent quality of what I call dirt. LOL

I know many who use lots of amendments as you do, but I've never really understood why.

Hey, if you feel it works for you that's all that counts.

But you forgot the sugar, birth control pills and matchheads that some folks also use. (smile)

Carolyn, a DB ( dirt believer) from way back. Sigh

carolyn - until i joined daves garden i didn"t know what the heck foliar feeding was. i just read the directions on the mg box and did what it said. no, i'm not predisposed to using only mg. anything better let me know and i will get it. thanks

I use dirt with a little compost with composted manure mixed in the hole. My ground is good for west KY. It's a loamy type clay base, but very friable.

I tilled today and it's a lovely scrunchy tilth.(it hit 80f) I don't mess much with fertilizer after I plant, and water with manure tea several times a season. The manure is a mixture of cattle and horse. I've also got some bunny poo that I use occaisionally.

My tomato patch is mulched with newspaper and that is covered in straw.( Mainly because I'm a lazy weeder) That is all burnt in the late winter and tilled under. I feel that it destroys bug eggs and weed seeds to burn it instead of till it under first. It may not make a bit of difference, but it makes me feel better.

If you watch the new growth on the tips of the plants they will tell you when they need Phos. they will begin to get purple--

Carolyn, I believe in good soil, which i don't have. I live at 1450 ft. elevation, and all that was here before i moved in was sagebrush, cheat grass and per. grasses. The soil is very alkaline, sandy rocky. So after almost 9 years i am slowly getting the soil built up. We get practically no rain and the water i irrigate with is also alkaline. This year I am also spreading Epsom Salts around to help counteract the alkalinity. Donna

Donna,

It makes a BIG difference when you share what it is you're working with as regards starting from practically nothing and adding what you do.

But what you listed as amendments are what many folks with perfectly good soil use, and that's what my comments were about.

Carolyn

I fertilize with composted horse manure and bedding material -mostly saw dust and straw. I then add other things if it is needed--rabbit poo was mentioned above--I use it on the tomatoes--It is great for them.

This message was edited Apr 17, 2004 10:39 AM

This message was edited Apr 20, 2004 6:15 PM

Hi Everyone,
Whenever we plant our tomatoes I dig my hole about 2-2 1/2 ft around and put a handrull of pellitized lime, and the rest composted cow manure, mixed in w, dirt. The Lime has always helped w/blosom end rot, which I haven't had much if at all, since I started using this every year, and the compost manure mixed in w/the dirt, has also done well for me, as well as adding a 1/4-1/2 cup if 10-10-10 mixed in the hole w/the dirt and compost manure. It always worked for my Dad and my Grandmother, so I just learned from them and it has worked for me. If after about 3 weeks, I see any need for anymore fertilizer I use miracle Grow. But, only 1-2 times thru the entire growing process. I stake them well, with hog wire cages, that are much sturdier than what u can buy, and u can fit your hand inside there. And I water regularly, I usually do not have a problem. But, I use Compost cow manure, Sometimes Black Cow, on everything I plant. Veggiies, Fruit Tree's, Reg. Tree's, and all plants as well. It has just always worked for me in the past. Especially my veggie's and planting or transplanting new shrubs or plants of all kinds. I have been able to tell a difference, whenever a few years ago, I decided to just use 10-10-10, and not compost manure. I didn't get near the yields I always did before, and Alot of the plants didn't make it at all. So, after that, I decided I would certainly stick with what worked for me before. I'm in GA, about 40 min west of Atlanta, and it gets pretty hot out here. And, I think it may depend on your weather and how hot it gets, and what type of soil you do have. I have Red Ga Clay in a very few places, but, mostly my yard is sandy, and dark brown. Very Good Soil. So try it a few different ways on several rows and mark them w/what u used, and see what worked best. Try 2-3 of each tomato type in each row. That is what I would do. But, My vegetable Garden is just as important as my Koi pond, and so, between the 2, I stay rather busy learning and enjoying every bit of it. Good Luck To everyone, and I am gonna stick w/what has worked for me for the past 10 years. Compsost Manure, 10-10-10 and lime.

Thanks,
Traci S

This message was edited Apr 20, 2004 6:22 PM

My soil is pretty good, so I don't add too much. But I do understand that some people have terrible soil in much need of organic help. I understand what Carolyn is talking about.