Original Abraham Lincoln?

It was my understanding that the original Abraham Lincoln with bronze foliage was extinct, but a quick click through Google shows several product descriptions that include "unique bronze/green foliage". Are they just using a standard description or is the original out there?

Hmmm...several of us have been looking for the original. Which company offered them by that description?

From what I can tell,those who have grown out Abe from multitudes of sources have found no bronze tint to the foliage whatsoever.

I'm betting that they just used the standard description...but there's nothing odd about the color.The tomato world would be beating a path to the door of anyone who could guarantee the bronze color.

That's what I thought. Only two sites I saw had pictures and only one of those two showed foliage. It was bright kelly green. A greenhouse in Ohio that grows and sells the plants had the other picture, which showed only a single fruit. Since they grow them, they may be able to verify the accuracy of their description. They have a toll-free number, which I just called, but I hung up after being on hold for nearly 5 minutes. I'll try again.

Hey Shoe, do you still want the companies which used that description?

Agrinerd, I believe what you just posted is evidence enuff for me, thanks! I was gonna look at the foliage/fruit that was posted.

I've grown Abe for two yrs now and did not witness the colorful foliage.

However, it is definitely one of my favorite tomatoes and I'll be growing it out for many yrs to come. (Want some seeds? Holler.)

I know someone who grew maybe 15 different strains of Abe Lincoln this past summer. And while he says he sees one with bronze foliage he has yet to post a picture.

I've grown many strains myself, both from the USDA aand from individuals.

A good friend, Howard Essl, said he once saw a bronze tint for a microsecond but it was the sun reflecting off the foliage. LOL

Shumways has been saying original Abe Lincoln and Lord knows how many other variations on the same theme.

The fact is that when the Shumway name was bought by Wayne Hilton, for $2K, there was NO seed inventory at all. He went to SSE members to get old stuff.

And no one has EVER listed an Abe Lincoln with bronze foliage at SSE.

Those who specialize in commercial heirlooms are confident that the original does not exist. Most folks believe that the mineral composition of the soil may have affected the foliage to slightly alter the color. Could be.

Any chance that greenhouse in Ohio is Hirt's? I don'ty kn ow where Hirt's is withut checking, but know there have been some problems with what they sell as shippped plants.

RIP Abe Lincoln

Carolyn

Yep, it Hirt's. Thanks for the caution.

Shoe, how long have you been growing Abe Lincolns there? If they grow well there, they should do well here. Of course, I'd love some seeds. Need an envelope and all?

OK, I'm curious.

Why the interest in growing Abe Lincoln when I could easily name a couple of hundred varieties I'd grow before growing that variety again. LOL

I suppose if one hasn't grown it before the lure of the log cabin/Civil War/Mrs. Lincoln's parties/long beard/emancipation proclamation/assasination, etc, might play a role, but then you also could grow

Mark Twain
King George
Alice Roosevelt
Box Car Willie
Queen Mary
King Humbert
Jeff Davis
Jefferson Giant
Earl of Edgecombe

....and on and on. LOL

Carolyn

let's not forget money maker! (I'm into the bucks!)

I can only tell ya why I like Abe, Carolyn. In my area, NC, it grows extremely well (for me anyway). Altho not touted by many as "disease resistant" (what is these days?) I've noticed it grows with very few foliage problems. It also produces a bumper crop of good-sized fruit. AND, it tastes (tastes? this opens up another whole avenue of conversation) so good I had to take a picture of my sandwich (my second sandwich. I ate the first one without saying a word about it! Delish!)

Why grow it? Cuz of the above (for me). Then again, on the other hand, I also know that I have not grown out the hundreds of varieties that you have so don't have the quantity of comparisons that you have.

Care to elaborate on why those varieties you mentioned above are better than Abe? Does each one 'taste better'? Do they exhibit more disease resistance?

Just being curious here. Well, actually "super curious", and now you have enticed me to try out those you've mentioned above. You dawg you!

Care to elaborate on why those varieties you mentioned above are better than Abe? Does each one 'taste better'? Do they exhibit more disease resistance?

The ones I listed are NOT better ( save maybe 2-3) than ole Abe ( see explanation below)

Taste better? Yes!

More disease tolerance? The most common tomato diseases are foliage diseases and no tomato variety, whether OP or hybrid has tolerance to those that are common. Two exceptions, but not worth it for the backyard gardener,

Just being curious here. Well, actually "super curious", and now you have enticed me to try out those you've mentioned above. You dawg you!

NO NO NO Shoe, the ones I posted were just others with famous names, akin to Abe Lincoln.LOL That was NOT a list of varieteis to try altho Box Car Willie and Jeff Davis are pretty darn good.

Carolyn

My curiosity came from some older posts from people who liked Abe, so I did a Google and saw some interesting information. I also saw that Shoe had been growing it and it did well where he lived, so was even more interested.

Some varieties are widely adapted and do well just about everywhere (All American Selections like Jubilee). Some do well in only a few situations, but really shine where they do well. I'm hoping for the latter for Abe in this case. I must admit to some intrigue over the history of this variety... "Holy Grails" get me going....and I DO like log cabins!

Carolyn, can you suggest any winners for a flavorful, fairly smooth slicer for acid, phosphorus-poor, clay soil in the humid western Carolinas? Cherokee Purple has been suggested (I'm smack dab in the middle of the old center of the Cherokee Nation), but I hear of some debate about seed sources and whether they carry the real McCoy or not.

Carolyn! You tease you!

Okay okay...I'll look up some Box Car and Jeff Davis (and hope I get the real seed)!

Dagnabbit all! (She would tell me this info during winter! Now I gotta wait a year to try 'em!)

Agri...I don't know that Abe is a "holy grail" but sure is blessed at my house! (course now, I'm a big believer in RCML also.)

Well, I suspect that bronze-leaved Abe Lincoln might indeed have suffered a nutritional deficiency.

This year I grew a magnificent blue-leaved Alaskan Fancy. I was convinced it was a new sport, I could grow it out and become rich and famous selling the seed.

Then the man who owns my local Pick Your Own farm snorted with amusement: 'You just got phosphorous deficiency', he said. True enough, I had lazily been growing tomatoes in the same GrowBag for three years running, with no soil replenishments, and relying on liquid feed.

But it was a beautiful plant...

But John, there are several varieteis that DO have a bluish tint to the foliage and it's not due to any nutrient deficiency.

Marizol God is one example.

And there are varieties that have a distinct grayish tinge to the foliage as well.

Dr, Lyle would be a good example.

And heaven help us but there are some varieties that have yellowish/green foliage that is perfectly normal.

Lutescent (Honor Bright) is a good example.

And all of these are genetically determined, not the result of a nutrient deficiency.

A phosphorus deficiency shows up not as a blue tinge but as a reddish purple coloration on the undersides of the leaves and along the midribs. it usually is the resulkt of cold temps not allowing uptake of soil P and that reverses normally when temps go higher. If it bothers some folks I tell them to use a foliar spray with either fish emulsion or seaweed which reverses the situation b/c it bypasses the soil P cold weather uptake problem.

So I don't know what the problem was with your Alaskan Fancy. Maybe it just has blue/green foliage as a few other varieteis do? Your foliar feed would have reversed any soil P deficiency, I would imagine.

Carolyn

Thanks, Carolyn!

In fact, all my other Alaskan Fancy had normal green leaves, so...

I'm now definitely going to market that seed after all - and get rich. May I call it Alaskan Fancy v. Carolyn? ;-))

No, this photo has not been retouched (colourwise, at least)! It's a faithful pic of my blue-leaved Alaskan Fancy tomato.

Which is about to astound the Lycopersicon world...

(Though, on observing it again, I agree it might be a potato-leaf variety ie. not Alaskan Fancy.)

This message was edited Nov 10, 2003 12:42 PM

Did that thing actually produce fruit? How big did it get?

Just the curious sort, ya know....

Yay, Shoe, it did yield fruit. Much as usual. And I have the seed here, closely guarded, all five seeds of it. (How else am I goin' to get rich? :-))

I just sent an email to Hirt's. Let's hope I get a straight answer from their sales department.

John, was there any difference in the fruit color or color intensity on the fruit?

To be candid, Agrinerd, I saw no difference. The plant yielded just a few small fruits. They were green and I had to rush them indoors before the blight got them, so they ripened on my window sill. No special differences observable, though

After reading John's posts, and those of DoW_Oldham in the "What went wrong" thread, I get the feeling that if you want to happily grow tomatoes you need to move someplace other than Florida or the UK.

Phred you better add Norhwest washington to that list because without a fair amount of luck you won't get satisfing crops here.

Tru grit is what it takes to get braggin size good tasting fruit here. A few people with just the right spot get fair toms but most are what I would call meager returns at best.

Since I didn't want to move I went under plastic for my
most satisfing season ever.

Heat and bottom moisture. Ernie